Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:41 AM - Re: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) (Clive Richards)
2. 06:00 AM - Re: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) (Mitch Hodges)
3. 07:18 AM - Re: Extra insulation (Bill Naumuk)
4. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) (Bill Naumuk)
5. 09:20 AM - CAD drawing of 650 exterior (lwinger)
6. 09:52 AM - Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior (Leo Gates)
7. 10:04 AM - Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior (Larry Winger)
8. 10:05 AM - Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior (jaybannist@cs.com)
9. 03:11 PM - Re: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) (Gary Ray)
10. 05:20 PM - A bloody safety note for annual inspection (LarryMcFarland)
11. 05:23 PM - MSC industrial supply co. (Carlos Sa)
12. 05:28 PM - Re: A bloody safety note for annual inspection (Carlos Sa)
13. 06:20 PM - Re: MSC industrial supply co. (Lawrence Webber)
14. 07:02 PM - Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior (lwinger)
15. 07:10 PM - Throttle and mixture control (lwinger)
16. 07:17 PM - Re: MSC industrial supply co. (Carlos Sa)
17. 07:24 PM - Re: MSC industrial supply co. (Randy L. Thwing)
18. 09:54 PM - Re: MSC industrial supply co. (JohnDRead@aol.com)
19. 10:18 PM - Re: A bloody safety note for annual inspection (JohnDRead@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) |
Gary
I question your sense the VDO gauge senders supplied for
the 701 are 70 ohms Empty & 10 ohms FULL unfortunately the gauges
supplied are 60/90 empty 0.5 ohms full.
The senders we bought & fitted to the HD were 240 empty & 33 ohms full
with matching gauges.
You can check the sense by connecting the gauge supply with sender
disconnected I think you will fined it reads less than empty. and
shorting sender terminal to negative will give over full.
Clive
G-CBDG 330 Hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Ray
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking
Ohm)
Mitch
For practice and checking the function of your meter, try measuring
several resistors with a known value. The meter should read very close
without fluctuations.
If you get the expected value with fluctuation higher you probably
have a loose wire connection in one of your test leads.
The VDO senders should read between 10 and 180 ohms(Empty-Full).
Also, Practice voltage readings on batteries etc. to gain experience.
One more point for later, a broken wire or corroded connection from
the VDO sender to the instrument panel fuel gauge will be a higher
resistance than 180 ohms which causes the fuel gauge to show a very full
tank indication when you actually have much less fuel in the tank. Ten
ohms is an empty tank, 180 ohms is a full tank, and anything causing
resistance above 180 ohms will show a very full tank.
For this reason be sure to visually check your tanks before flight and
observe that the gauges are in agreement with the visual.
Gary Ray
davgray@sbcglobal.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Hodges, Mitch
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:55 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking
Ohm)
Just getting ready to put the sender in the LE tank on the left wing
of my HDS. Following the instructions, I've done the bend, etc. Now
I'm trying to test the sender's Ohm readings. Unfortunately, what I get
are readings that bounces all over the place and never settles down
anywhere close.
Now, being somewhat less than a daily user of a multimeter (I think
I've used one once before, and not sure I was successful then) it is
very possible its user error, so I thought maybe someone could verify
I'm doing this correctly.
I have an ACTRON CP7672 multimeter
http://www.actron.com/publish/2004/06/07/pdf_english_16157.pdf. It is
set to to 2000 on the Ohm/Resistance scale), although I've tried the
others.
The Red lead is plugged into the V(OHm)A plug, and the black lead is
plugged into the COM plug. I touch both leads to the terminal on the
sender, but not to each other. At both the Full and Empty settings, I
get just a wide swing in but no reading close to what it should be
(although they do pop up in the seemingly random numbers generated).
So, bad sender, bad method or bad user?
Thanks,
Mitch Hodges
N601MH - Wings under Perpetual Construction
http://www.hodges.aero
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) |
Everyone,
Thanks for your responses. After a little recommended testing, I believe a have
a suspect multimeter. I'm going to borrow one from work today and try it at
next opportunity.
Jim, I was testing at 200, not 2000, that was a typo on my part, although I did
try the other settings, just in case.
Clive, for the senders I have (sorry don't have the part# with me) the Ohms listed
from Zenith are as Gary suggested (70 empty, 10 full) and the one I have enclosed
in the right wing calibrated out that way.
Thanks again.
--------
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
Wings Under Perpetual Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264106#264106
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| Subject: | Re: Extra insulation |
Elden-
I guess I have a buyer. I'm figuring out what the USPS shipping will
be and going out to make absolutely sure that I don't really need it.
There's exactly as much left over as what I used. The only thing I can
think of is, since I covered both sides of my firewall, I doubled the
area of one side, lost track of what I was doing, and doubled it again.
You're on deck if the other buyer backs out. Thanks.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Elden Jacobson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Extra insulation
If it's not already gone, Bill, I'd like to have it.
Elden Jacobson
--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Bill Naumuk <naumuk@windstream.net> wrote:
From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@windstream.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Extra insulation
To: "zenith list" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 2:51 AM
All-
Wound up with enough extra 1/2" insulation to do both
sides of a firewall. 3.5' x4.5', Wicks #SP-500, will take $20 +
shipping. Look it up.
Originally came unfolded in a 5' tall box. if you don't
mind folding it we can ship USPS for 1/2 the cost. If not, I have the
original box. Take it from me- folding is no big deal.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
el=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) |
Mitch-
I had a bad battery in my multimeter which wound up in all sorts of
readings. I checked my gauge in true backyard mechanic style- I applied 12V
from a battery eliminator and watched the needle when I moved the float arm
before installing the tank.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mitch Hodges" <n601mh@HODGES.INFO>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:59 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm)
>
> Everyone,
>
> Thanks for your responses. After a little recommended testing, I believe
> a have a suspect multimeter. I'm going to borrow one from work today and
> try it at next opportunity.
>
> Jim, I was testing at 200, not 2000, that was a typo on my part, although
> I did try the other settings, just in case.
>
> Clive, for the senders I have (sorry don't have the part# with me) the
> Ohms listed from Zenith are as Gary suggested (70 empty, 10 full) and the
> one I have enclosed in the right wing calibrated out that way.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> --------
> Mitch Hodges
> N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
> Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
> Wings Under Perpetual Construction
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264106#264106
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | CAD drawing of 650 exterior |
I'm working with a friend in graphic design who is hoping for a CAD drawing of
the exterior of the 650. Ideally, it would include at least three views: side,
front and top.
Does anyone have that? Any ideas where to start looking?
Thanks.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Polishing fuselage /ready for FWF
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264146#264146
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior |
Have you tried Zenith?
lwinger wrote:
>
> I'm working with a friend in graphic design who is hoping for a CAD drawing of
the exterior of the 650. Ideally, it would include at least three views: side,
front and top.
>
> Does anyone have that? Any ideas where to start looking?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --------
> Larry Winger
> Tustin, CA
> Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
> Polishing fuselage /ready for FWF
> www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264146#264146
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior |
Yes, and they're checking on whether they can provide it or not.
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Leo Gates <leo@zuehlfield.com> wrote:
>
> Have you tried Zenith?
>
> lwinger wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm working with a friend in graphic design who is hoping for a CAD
>> drawing of the exterior of the 650. Ideally, it would include at least
>> three views: side, front and top.
>>
>> Does anyone have that? Any ideas where to start looking?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --------
>> Larry Winger
>> Tustin, CA
>> Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
>> Polishing fuselage /ready for FWF
>> www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264146#264146
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior |
Larry,
You might start here.? The attached is in AutoCAD2000.? It is not a 650, but a
601XL with a William Wynne cowling.
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: lwinger <larrywinger@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 21, 2009 11:20 am
Subject: Zenith-List: CAD drawing of 650 exterior
I'm working with a friend in graphic design who is hoping for a CAD drawing of
the exterior of the 650. Ideally, it would include at least three views: side,
front and top.
Does anyone have that? Any ideas where to start looking?
Thanks.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Polishing fuselage /ready for FWF
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264146#264146
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) |
Clive
I don't know which sender units are used on Zenith 701 aircraft. I know
VDO makes sending units with 0-90 and 240-33 ohms. I did not know
Zenith
used different senders on different models. I am going to assume that
your 240-33 ohm unit is reversed as the numbers are reversed however for
the 10-180 ohm unit
it is set up so 10 ohms is empty and 180 ohms when full. The fuel
gauges must match the ohms of the sending unit.
My 601XL kit came with the following:
Mounting Kit with standard VDO resistance, 10-180 Ohm, part number 226
002
I used matching Autometer fuel gauges.
Installation PDF @
http://www.egauges.com/pdf/vdo/0-515-010-396.pdf
Exerpt states:
Fuel Level Sender Installation
The Fuel Level Sender has a resistance rating of 10W when the
tank is empty and 180W when full.
So my original statement is correct. The gauge will show over full with
any increase in resistance above 180 ohms.
Gary Ray davgray@sbcglobal.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Clive Richards
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking
Ohm)
Gary
I question your sense the VDO gauge senders supplied
for the 701 are 70 ohms Empty & 10 ohms FULL unfortunately the gauges
supplied are 60/90 empty 0.5 ohms full.
The senders we bought & fitted to the HD were 240 empty & 33 ohms full
with matching gauges.
You can check the sense by connecting the gauge supply with sender
disconnected I think you will fined it reads less than empty. and
shorting sender terminal to negative will give over full.
Clive
G-CBDG 330 Hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Ray
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking
Ohm)
Mitch
For practice and checking the function of your meter, try measuring
several resistors with a known value. The meter should read very close
without fluctuations.
If you get the expected value with fluctuation higher you probably
have a loose wire connection in one of your test leads.
The VDO senders should read between 10 and 180 ohms(Empty-Full).
Also, Practice voltage readings on batteries etc. to gain
experience.
One more point for later, a broken wire or corroded connection from
the VDO sender to the instrument panel fuel gauge will be a higher
resistance than 180 ohms which causes the fuel gauge to show a very full
tank indication when you actually have much less fuel in the tank. Ten
ohms is an empty tank, 180 ohms is a full tank, and anything causing
resistance above 180 ohms will show a very full tank.
For this reason be sure to visually check your tanks before flight
and observe that the gauges are in agreement with the visual.
Gary Ray
davgray@sbcglobal.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | A bloody safety note for annual inspection |
Hi Guys,
I nearly qualified for the Darwin award today while removing my
propeller. Id put wrenches on both ends of the prop bolts and had my
head in the path of the propeller struggling with the torqued nuts on
the back face. As each nut was loosened, the prop rotated backward a few
degrees toward me. On the 5^th bolt, I was so focused that I pulled on
the wrench with my chin tucked in and the prop, only two feet away,
moved a few more degrees and the compression released to spin the rear
edge of the prop onto the side of my skull. The force made a 5-inch mark
on the side of my head and the centerfold in my ear was cut clear through.
Wrenches and I hit the floor and then I walked from the hangar bleeding
pretty good. An airport employee saw my bloody towel in hand and called
the airport emergency team and soon medics in fire trucks arrived to
offer assistance. It could have been worse, but my mistake was not
removing the spark plugs before removing prop bolts. No ignition was
involved, but with a re-drive reduction of 2 to1, the force released was
a surprise and could well have been deadly.
I signed a refusal of medical care as my ear had quit bleeding and was
very appreciative of their arriving so quickly.
They say confession is good for the soul and that its never too late to
learn something,
Larry McFarland 601HDS Stratus Subaru at www.macsmachine.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | MSC industrial supply co. |
Something that perhaps will amuse you...
The other day I tried to order a couple of items from MacMaster-Carr, when I
had the disappointing surprise: they don't do exports anymore - "Thank you
for your order. Unfortunately, due to the ever increasing complexity of
United States export regulations, McMaster-Carr will only process orders
from a few long-established customers in Canada. We sincerely regret any
inconvenience this causes you. ".
So, I did some Googling, found MSC, and proceeded to order two UHMW bars
(for the CH601-HD gear slides) and 2 x 5/32X12" drill bits.
The costs were: 2 times 6.86 for the UHMW and and 2 times 18.88 for the
drill bits.
Later, I received a confirmation that included the following info:
Drill bits:
Merchandise Subtotal: $37.76
Shipping, Handling & Surcharge: $11.83
Sales Tax: $.00
P/S Total: $49.59
UHMW bars:
Merchandise Subtotal: $13.72
Shipping, Handling & Surcharge: $16.65
Sales Tax: $.00
P/S Total: $30.37
Note the two shipping charges ! ! ! I later found out that the shipping
would be from two distinct stores/warehouses !!!
One of the parcels arrived today - the drill bits.
Via the dreaded UPS! (the MSC web site does not offer a choice of shipping
methods, or I would have chosen donkey, or something similar).
And, not surprisingly, UPS charged me the outrageous brokerage fee: CD$38 !
! !
ARGH ! ! !$87 bucks for a couple of drill bits !!!!
I can't wait until the UHMW bars arrive (tomorrow)... Sigh...
Carlos
do not archive, it is too embarrassing.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: A bloody safety note for annual inspection |
Larry, I'm sorry for the pain, but glad you came out of it still
"airworthy".
I hope it doesn't hurt too much...
Carlos
do not archive
2009/9/21 LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Hi Guys,
> I nearly qualified for the Darwin award today while removing my propeller.
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | MSC industrial supply co. |
Carlos where did they ship to ? where is your location?
Larry Webber
Subject: Zenith-List: MSC industrial supply co.
From: carlossa52@gmail.com
Something that perhaps will amuse you...
The other day I tried to order a couple of items from MacMaster-Carr=2C whe
n I had the disappointing surprise: they don't do exports anymore - "Thank
you for your order. Unfortunately=2C due to the ever increasing complexity
of United States export regulations=2C McMaster-Carr will only process ord
ers from a few long-established customers in Canada. We sincerely regret a
ny inconvenience this causes you. ".
So=2C I did some Googling=2C found MSC=2C and proceeded to order two UHMW b
ars (for the CH601-HD gear slides) and 2 x 5/32X12" drill bits.
The costs were: 2 times 6.86 for the UHMW and and 2 times 18.88 for the dri
ll bits.
Later=2C I received a confirmation that included the following info:
Drill bits:
Merchandise Subtotal: $37.76
Shipping=2C Handling & Surcharge: $11.83
Sales Tax: $.00
P/S Total: $49.59
UHMW bars:
Merchandise Subtotal: $13.72
Shipping=2C Handling & Surcharge: $16.65
Sales Tax: $.00
P/S Total: $30.37
Note the two shipping charges ! ! ! I later found out that the shipping wou
ld be from two distinct stores/warehouses !!!
One of the parcels arrived today - the drill bits.
Via the dreaded UPS! (the MSC web site does not offer a choice of shipping
methods=2C or I would have chosen donkey=2C or something similar).
And=2C not surprisingly=2C UPS charged me the outrageous brokerage fee: CD$
38 ! ! !
ARGH ! ! !$87 bucks for a couple of drill bits !!!!
I can't wait until the UHMW bars arrive (tomorrow)... Sigh...
Carlos
do not archive=2C it is too embarrassing.
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.=0A
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut
orial_QuickAdd_062009
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior |
Thanks, Jay. Very helpful.
Do not archive
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Polishing fuselage /ready for FWF
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264247#264247
Message 15
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| Subject: | Throttle and mixture control |
I'm using a single center throttle and mixture control arrangement on a 650 with
a Corvair /MA3SPA carb.
Any recommendations on part numbers would be appreciated. I believe I want a vernier
(not a friction lock) unless someone convinces me otherwise.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Polishing fuselage /ready for FWF
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264248#264248
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: MSC industrial supply co. |
Larry, I am in Montreal, QC, Canada
do not archive
2009/9/21 Lawrence Webber <lawrencewebber@hotmail.com>
> Carlos where did they ship to ? where is your location?
>
> Larry Webber
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: MSC industrial supply co. |
do not archive
Hello Carlos:
I have been buying from MSC supply for over twenty years. Upon reading
your post, I went to their site and formulated the following bogus order
below. Note there is a link for:
"Change ship via? click here."
There are some rules though that you have to adhere to avoid problems.
Of course, I am shipping within the US.
Until recently, I have faxed every order to them. I have established a
internet ordering account and have sent one order so far via that.
On the faxed orders, I always add the following:
1. Ship or cancel, no backorders
2. Ship from multiple warehouses only at your expense
3. Ship via: cheapest way, not quickest way
RE 1: If you let them backorder, they might backorder a .80 cent drill
bit that weighs .001 ounce, and when they fill the BO, you incur a
minimum (six bucks) shipping charge.
RE 2: Again if they ship your order and a .80 cent bit comes from
elsewhere, the shipping charges are horrendous, here, if they choose to
do it, they pay, and they often do.
RE 3: They usually advertise that they will "ship via air, second day
blue label at ground rates" Sounds good up front, but you have to
remember that UPS has a "premium" ground service"; Three day Select.
This is much more expensive than regular ground. Sure they charge you
"ground" rates, but it might be the "premium" ground rate. I always
specify "cheapest method".
Other than these things to make sure shipping works out, they are a very
good Company. They have probably the best Customer service around. The
obviously have arrangements with their venders.
Many times, I have called with a technical problem or question. If
MSC's customer service rep can't answer the question, WHILE you are on
the phone, they call the supplier Company on another line, get that
Company's customer service people involved, and you talk on a sort of
conference call until your question is answered.
They usually have the stuff, often in 6 different grades or qualities
for an item. When I order industrial items for my small plant, it is
usually from MSC or Travers.
Best Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
Quantity to be Shipped Backordered
Quantity Your Price Ext. Price
00154799
2 0 $30.14 ea $60.28
Description: Tg Single Angle - Collets Collet
Series: 100TG Collet Capacity: 41/64 Overall Length: 2.375 In..
Shipping Detail: Standard Ground 2 DAYS from NV
Change ship via? click here
By clicking "Order Now" you acknowledge all of the items on the
order and agree to MSC's terms and conditions of sale as they appear on
this website. In order to meet MSC's Same Day Shipping guarantee, all
changes/revisions must be requested immediately as, in most cases, the
order will be processed immediately after submission. Once this has
occurred, changes cannot be made.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Sa
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:22 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: MSC industrial supply co.
Something that perhaps will amuse you...
The other day I tried to order a couple of items from MacMaster-Carr,
when I had the disappointing surprise: they don't do exports anymore -
"Thank you for your order. Unfortunately, due to the ever increasing
complexity of United States export regulations, McMaster-Carr will only
process orders from a few long-established customers in Canada. We
sincerely regret any inconvenience this causes you. ".
So, I did some Googling, found MSC, and proceeded to order two UHMW
bars (for the CH601-HD gear slides) and 2 x 5/32X12" drill bits.
The costs were: 2 times 6.86 for the UHMW and and 2 times 18.88 for
the drill bits.
Later, I received a confirmation that included the following info:
Drill bits:
Merchandise Subtotal: $37.76
Shipping, Handling & Surcharge: $11.83
Sales Tax: $.00
P/S Total: $49.59
UHMW bars:
Merchandise Subtotal: $13.72
Shipping, Handling & Surcharge: $16.65
Sales Tax: $.00
P/S Total: $30.37
Note the two shipping charges ! ! !
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: MSC industrial supply co. |
Carlos;
Certainly an educational tale! I can not help you with the
UHMW. The next time though that you need a couple of drills let me know and I
will get them locally and send them to you. Drills here are under $2.00
each. do not archive.
John Read
CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: A bloody safety note for annual inspection |
Hi Larry, does that make you a propeller head? Just kidding I hope you are
OK we need you around for you good contributions. do not archive.
John Read
CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
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