---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/22/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - Re: Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior (jaybannist@cs.com) 2. 06:09 AM - Re: Throttle and mixture control (Gig Giacona) 3. 07:17 AM - Re: MSC industrial supply co. (Bill Naumuk) 4. 10:11 AM - Re: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) (Clive Richards) 5. 12:44 PM - Re: A bloody safety note for annual inspection (Dan Wilde) 6. 02:18 PM - Re: Throttle and mixture control (PatrickW) 7. 03:04 PM - 650 drawings (jaybannist@cs.com) 8. 03:04 PM - 605 drawings (jaybannist@cs.com) 9. 03:15 PM - Re: 605 drawings (lwinger) 10. 05:01 PM - 601xl flap hinge (leinad) 11. 05:17 PM - Re: 601xl flap hinge (Paul Mulwitz) 12. 05:28 PM - Re: 601xl flap hinge (John Davis) 13. 05:32 PM - Aileron Trim Tab Motor access. (leinad) 14. 05:52 PM - Re: Aileron Trim Tab Motor access. (Rene Felker) 15. 06:14 PM - Re: Aileron Trim Tab Motor access. (Paul Mulwitz) 16. 07:13 PM - Re: MSC industrial supply co. (Lawrence Webber) 17. 09:52 PM - First flight (Mark Stauffer) 18. 10:09 PM - Re: First flight (Sabrina) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior From: jaybannist@cs.com Larry, I will try to get the ZAC drawings that show how to convert an XL to a 650.? If I can get enough information, I will alter the XL CAD drawing and send it to you. Jay B -----Original Message----- From: lwinger Sent: Mon, Sep 21, 2009 9:01 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CAD drawing of 650 exterior Thanks, Jay. Very helpful. Do not archive -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair Polishing fuselage /ready for FWF www.mykitlog.com/lwinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264247#264247 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:04 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Throttle and mixture control From: "Gig Giacona" Vernier is great for mixture. Not so much for throttle. Here are the ACS Parts numbers I used... Mixture 05-07848 A-750 CONTROL 48" RED KNOB Throttle 05-08660 A-800 CONTROL 5 BLACK KNOB Carb Heat 05-14300 PLAIN DURAL KNOB CONTROL 8 I could have gotten away with a shorter carb heat but it was very easy to adjust the length. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264290#264290 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:20 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MSC industrial supply co. Carlos- You're not the only one who got bit by MSC. My condolences. It has nothing to do with trans-border shipping, MSC charges a flat $10 US "Handling fee" per order (Or at least they used to). MSC primarily deals with tool shops and the like that maintain open accounts and seem to make a point of raping the little guy. I bought 2 ball mills from them that cataloged at about $7 US and was charged $16 for shipping. They would have fit in an envelope!! One lister said he could drop ship you bits for about $2 each. He didn't notice the 12" length, but you probably could have found them locally for a lot less money. I bought my 16"x 5/16" bit at TrueValue Hardware for $15.95 US. Hang in there, bud. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Carlos Sa To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:22 PM Subject: Zenith-List: MSC industrial supply co. Something that perhaps will amuse you... The other day I tried to order a couple of items from MacMaster-Carr, when I had the disappointing surprise: they don't do exports anymore - "Thank you for your order. Unfortunately, due to the ever increasing complexity of United States export regulations, McMaster-Carr will only process orders from a few long-established customers in Canada. We sincerely regret any inconvenience this causes you. ". So, I did some Googling, found MSC, and proceeded to order two UHMW bars (for the CH601-HD gear slides) and 2 x 5/32X12" drill bits. The costs were: 2 times 6.86 for the UHMW and and 2 times 18.88 for the drill bits. Later, I received a confirmation that included the following info: Drill bits: Merchandise Subtotal: $37.76 Shipping, Handling & Surcharge: $11.83 Sales Tax: $.00 P/S Total: $49.59 UHMW bars: Merchandise Subtotal: $13.72 Shipping, Handling & Surcharge: $16.65 Sales Tax: $.00 P/S Total: $30.37 Note the two shipping charges ! ! ! I later found out that the shipping would be from two distinct stores/warehouses !!! One of the parcels arrived today - the drill bits. Via the dreaded UPS! (the MSC web site does not offer a choice of shipping methods, or I would have chosen donkey, or something similar). And, not surprisingly, UPS charged me the outrageous brokerage fee: CD$38 ! ! ! ARGH ! ! !$87 bucks for a couple of drill bits !!!! I can't wait until the UHMW bars arrive (tomorrow)... Sigh... Carlos do not archive, it is too embarrassing. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:31 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) Gary Thanks for info all gauges I have previously come across on cars always had the lower resistance for full I assume electronics have changed things. The senders on a 701 are off a V W Beetle. Clive ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Ray To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:00 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) Clive I don't know which sender units are used on Zenith 701 aircraft. I know VDO makes sending units with 0-90 and 240-33 ohms. I did not know Zenith used different senders on different models. I am going to assume that your 240-33 ohm unit is reversed as the numbers are reversed however for the 10-180 ohm unit it is set up so 10 ohms is empty and 180 ohms when full. The fuel gauges must match the ohms of the sending unit. My 601XL kit came with the following: Mounting Kit with standard VDO resistance, 10-180 Ohm, part number 226 002 I used matching Autometer fuel gauges. Installation PDF @ http://www.egauges.com/pdf/vdo/0-515-010-396.pdf Exerpt states: Fuel Level Sender Installation The Fuel Level Sender has a resistance rating of 10W when the tank is empty and 180W when full. So my original statement is correct. The gauge will show over full with any increase in resistance above 180 ohms. Gary Ray davgray@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Clive Richards To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:38 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) Gary I question your sense the VDO gauge senders supplied for the 701 are 70 ohms Empty & 10 ohms FULL unfortunately the gauges supplied are 60/90 empty 0.5 ohms full. The senders we bought & fitted to the HD were 240 empty & 33 ohms full with matching gauges. You can check the sense by connecting the gauge supply with sender disconnected I think you will fined it reads less than empty. and shorting sender terminal to negative will give over full. Clive G-CBDG 330 Hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Ray To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:06 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS - VDO Senders in LE Tanks (checking Ohm) Mitch For practice and checking the function of your meter, try measuring several resistors with a known value. The meter should read very close without fluctuations. If you get the expected value with fluctuation higher you probably have a loose wire connection in one of your test leads. The VDO senders should read between 10 and 180 ohms(Empty-Full). Also, Practice voltage readings on batteries etc. to gain experience. One more point for later, a broken wire or corroded connection from the VDO sender to the instrument panel fuel gauge will be a higher resistance than 180 ohms which causes the fuel gauge to show a very full tank indication when you actually have much less fuel in the tank. Ten ohms is an empty tank, 180 ohms is a full tank, and anything causing resistance above 180 ohms will show a very full tank. For this reason be sure to visually check your tanks before flight and observe that the gauges are in agreement with the visual. Gary Ray davgray@sbcglobal.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:26 PM PST US From: Dan Wilde Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A bloody safety note for annual inspection Larry: Don't feel alone. I drilled thru my finger when I was building my 701. My wife was not amused. Good tip on removing the spark plugs. I will be doing my annual next month. Dan Wilde N948DW ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Throttle and mixture control From: "PatrickW" Hey Gig - would those cables you ordered have been long enough if you'd wanted to install just a single set of controls on the left side? You're going with the Corvair and MA3-SPA, right? I plan to install a single set of these controls on the left side. How feasible is it to adjust the length of the other two controls (throttle, mixture) if need be? Is it just a simple matter of cutting them to size, or do they have some kind of fancy end...? Thanks, Patrick N63PZ XL/650/Corvair -------- Patrick XL/650/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264381#264381 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:42 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 650 drawings From: jaybannist@cs.com I guess the subject line of that last post should have been "650 drawings" and not "605 drawings".? A little dyslexia, there. Jay Bannister Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:42 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 605 drawings From: jaybannist@cs.com Larry, Near as I can tell from the drawings you sent and the XL drawings I have, this is what a tri-gear 650 with a WW cowling would look like.? Just don't look too closely at them.? I made them in a pretty big hurry, so not strictly "kosher" from a CAD standpoint. Jay Bannister ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 605 drawings From: "lwinger" Great work, Jay. I can't believe you cranked that out in just a few hours. I owe you. Maybe I should say "we owe you" when I include future 650/Corvair builders. Thanks. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair Polishing fuselage /ready for FWF www.mykitlog.com/lwinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264394#264394 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601xl flap hinge From: "leinad" Long ago I some how I purchased 6' long piano hinges for the flaps and now I'm building the flaps. The drawing calls for 7' long pieces. The actual cut length is 6'-6". I've got 3 pieces and am wondering if anyone knows if it's OK to splice it. Otherwise is there a good source for long piano hinges. I've looked at ACS and McMaster. I meant to call ACS today to see if they can get it, but it got to late in the day. Dan -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264405#264405 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:20 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601xl flap hinge Hi Dan, Congratulations. This is the first really interesting question I have heard in a long time. It is completely new to me and fun to think about. After some 5 years on this list, I must say it is a rare event indeed when a really new question comes up. I would "Splice" the hinges before installing them by cutting one piece considerably shorter than the other after removing the hinge pin. When done this would give you a piano hinge with two breaks but the break on one side would be in a very different position on the length of the hinge from the other side. Once the hinge is riveted to the wing and flap I don't think this difference would be noticeable by either the hinge or anyone looking at it. If you really want to obsess over this you could always weld the two pieces on each side of the hinge together. I suppose this is the sort of question best answered by the engineers at Zenith, but I feel confident they would go along with this kind of solution. Have fun, Paul XL awaiting engineering changes At 05:01 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote: >Long ago I some how I purchased 6' long piano hinges for the flaps >and now I'm building the flaps. The drawing calls for 7' long >pieces. The actual cut length is 6'-6". I've got 3 pieces and am >wondering if anyone knows if it's OK to splice it. Otherwise is >there a good source for long piano hinges. I've looked at ACS and >McMaster. I meant to call ACS today to see if they can get it, but >it got to late in the day. >Dan ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:12 PM PST US From: John Davis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601xl flap hinge Hi Dan, Zenith will sell you the hinge material. John Davis N601JD 601XL - Jab 3300 leinad wrote: > > Long ago I some how I purchased 6' long piano hinges for the flaps and now I'm building the flaps. The drawing calls for 7' long pieces. The actual cut length is 6'-6". I've got 3 pieces and am wondering if anyone knows if it's OK to splice it. Otherwise is there a good source for long piano hinges. I've looked at ACS and McMaster. I meant to call ACS today to see if they can get it, but it got to late in the day. > Dan > > -------- > Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264405#264405 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:22 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim Tab Motor access. From: "leinad" I was about to cut the access hole for the aileron trim tab motor in my aileron and I had an idea that I'm wondering if anyone else has tried. Instead of putting the access cover in the bottom of the aileron, put it in the top where the motor goes, then attach the motor to it. The hole motor would come out when you remove the cover. When I did the elevator trim I found it frustrating getting the motor bolted in place with my hands working through that tiny access cover. The motor was held on by tiny nylock nuts inside the aileron, and I must have dropped them a hundred times. I remember my hands getting cramps. Any thoughts? Has any done it this way? Thanks in advance. Dan -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264414#264414 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:54 PM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim Tab Motor access. That is the way I did my rudder trim on my RV-10, but I do not know if it is applicable here. Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of leinad Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:32 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim Tab Motor access. I was about to cut the access hole for the aileron trim tab motor in my aileron and I had an idea that I'm wondering if anyone else has tried. Instead of putting the access cover in the bottom of the aileron, put it in the top where the motor goes, then attach the motor to it. The hole motor would come out when you remove the cover. When I did the elevator trim I found it frustrating getting the motor bolted in place with my hands working through that tiny access cover. The motor was held on by tiny nylock nuts inside the aileron, and I must have dropped them a hundred times. I remember my hands getting cramps. Any thoughts? Has any done it this way? Thanks in advance. Dan -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264414#264414 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:53 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim Tab Motor access. Hi Dan, One issue with this approach is water leaking into the trim motor. This is indeed a problem in the Tecnam Echo I am currently flying. Apparently the only real solution if the motor gets wet is to replace it. Paul XL awaiting engineering changes At 05:32 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote: >I was about to cut the access hole for the aileron trim tab motor in >my aileron and I had an idea that I'm wondering if anyone else has >tried. Instead of putting the access cover in the bottom of the >aileron, put it in the top where the motor goes, then attach the >motor to it. The hole motor would come out when you remove the cover. > >When I did the elevator trim I found it frustrating getting the >motor bolted in place with my hands working through that tiny access >cover. The motor was held on by tiny nylock nuts inside the >aileron, and I must have dropped them a hundred times. I remember >my hands getting cramps. > >Any thoughts? Has any done it this way? >Thanks in advance. > >Dan ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:28 PM PST US From: Lawrence Webber Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MSC industrial supply co. In the future if you want i will get the small items for you and then send them to you try this once and see if you can save a few bucks willing ti give it a try for you Larry Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MSC industrial supply co. From: carlossa52@gmail.com Larry=2C I am in Montreal=2C QC=2C Canada do not archive 2009/9/21 Lawrence Webber Carlos where did they ship to ? where is your location? Larry Webber =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing=99 now=0A http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_ta gline_try bing_1x1 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:50 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: Zenith-List: First flight Just wanted to let you know and encourage those that are still building that: Tonight I flew my 601XL for the first time. This is after 6 years, 8 months and over 1500 hours of build time. The plane flew great and is powered by a Jabiru 3300. It was a short 20 minute flight over the airport. Thankfully the entire flight was un-eventful. Many thanks to Sebastien, Nick, Roger and Caleb at Zenith and Pete, Ben and Nick at Jabiru USA. It took awhile but it was well worth it. Keep building. Mark Mark Stauffer SN 6-4999 Jabiru 3300 762 lbs empty ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight From: "Sabrina" Congrats! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264454#264454 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.