Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:43 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09 (John Goodings)
2. 08:47 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09 (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 09:16 AM - UK Mods (roger lambert)
4. 09:16 AM - Re: CH2000 vs HDS (Bill Naumuk)
5. 09:24 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09 (Doug - SportAviation)
6. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09 (fgantt@texaviation.com)
7. 11:53 AM - Re: UK Mods (Gig Giacona)
8. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: UK Mods (jaybannist@cs.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09 |
I have not flown a CH2000. In my opinion, a Cherokee 140 would NOT be a
good primer for a CH601HD or HDS. An aircraft with a control wheel (as in
the CH2000) is NOT a good primer for the stick in an HD or HDS. I don't
think it would prepare a relatively low-time pilot (like me!) for the very
sensitive pitch control in an HD or HDS.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09 |
Hi John,
I agree with you, but your comment got me thinking.
The more different model planes you fly, the more likely you will
learn to control your pitch and other attitude components by visual
feedback rather than thinking a certain force will get a known
response. Even flying the exact same plane from one extreme loading
to another can make a big difference in pitch response. Once you
learn to use visual feedback for you attitude control it gets much
easier to fly any plane and to switch from one to another.
That said, each make and model flies differently from all
others. The only way to really get appropriate experience is to fly
the exact make and model of interest. Perhaps that is why you need
to make three landings in the given model before taking passengers.
Insurance companies and brokers are very good at finding close
substitutes for rare planes. To qualify for insurance in a CH601XL I
had one broker tell me I needed to get time in anything with a 601 in
the model and another tell me I needed time in the exact same model to qualify.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
do not archive
At 07:43 AM 10/6/2009, you wrote:
>I have not flown a CH2000. In my opinion, a Cherokee 140 would NOT
>be a good primer for a CH601HD or HDS. An aircraft with a control
>wheel (as in the CH2000) is NOT a good primer for the stick in an HD
>or HDS. I don't think it would prepare a relatively low-time pilot
>(like me!) for the very sensitive pitch control in an HD or HDS.
>
>John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto.
Message 3
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Perhaps this is too obvious, but how does one after drilling out those solid
rivits in the center spar carry through, determine where to drill the top
hole in the "angles" at the precise spot to match those holes to put a bolt
through. I would think a video of that entire process would be very
interesting.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: CH2000 vs HDS |
Phill-
From previous posts, the Grumman Trainer is the closest GA airplane to
the HDS as far as handling is concerned. Problem is, there are probably more
Zeniths in the air than Grummans these days. The Cherokee is a close second
choice, more available, and might be what I'll check out in.
To tell the truth, I think it's more a matter of self-confidence, and
I'm not sure I have enough myself. I know of two cases where owners didn't
have any transition training at all, but did their Phase I flying out of
quiet airports with plenty of tarmac and had no problems. I guess the
question is, "Can you fly the pattern while constantly monitoring your
engine gauges?" And, "Does your airport have plenty of alternate landing
sites nearby?" If you have tight approaches with trees all around....
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH2000 vs HDS
>
> Phill,
> Either a CH 2000 or a Cherokee 140 would be a good primer for the HDS.
> Perhaps a little more sluggish, but would get the
> job done. The response rate for the HDS will be a bit quicker, but if
> you're current and remember to fly the plane, you're
> going to get along with the HDS in any case. The fine point will be
> getting it set on the mains while holding the nose gear off
> to slowdown and then ease it on. The rest will seem very natural. The HDS
> does not present contrary or difficult
> to master flight characteristics. It's really sweet.to fly. Recommend
> long term, electric elevator and aileron trim tabs.
> Pitch it for the middle ground.
> Best regards,
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
> 601corvair wrote:
>> I am wondering if anyone has flown both an HDS and a CH2000 (Alarus)? If
>> so, how comparable are the flight characteristics?
>> Would the CH2000 be a good training platform for an HDS?
>>
>> Thanks phill hartig
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09 |
I've been told that a Grumman is a close approximation. Even to the
pitchiness.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09
Hi John,
I agree with you, but your comment got me thinking.
The more different model planes you fly, the more likely you will
learn to control your pitch and other attitude components by visual
feedback rather than thinking a certain force will get a known
response. Even flying the exact same plane from one extreme loading
to another can make a big difference in pitch response. Once you
learn to use visual feedback for you attitude control it gets much
easier to fly any plane and to switch from one to another.
That said, each make and model flies differently from all
others. The only way to really get appropriate experience is to fly
the exact make and model of interest. Perhaps that is why you need
to make three landings in the given model before taking passengers.
Insurance companies and brokers are very good at finding close
substitutes for rare planes. To qualify for insurance in a CH601XL I
had one broker tell me I needed to get time in anything with a 601 in
the model and another tell me I needed time in the exact same model to
qualify.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
do not archive
At 07:43 AM 10/6/2009, you wrote:
>I have not flown a CH2000. In my opinion, a Cherokee 140 would NOT
>be a good primer for a CH601HD or HDS. An aircraft with a control
>wheel (as in the CH2000) is NOT a good primer for the stick in an HD
>or HDS. I don't think it would prepare a relatively low-time pilot
>(like me!) for the very sensitive pitch control in an HD or HDS.
>
>John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09 |
GuysI have a couple of 100 hours in a Grumman Tiger and it is a slick
airplane and light on the controls. The Tiger could be used as a good
transition but you fly the plane by the numbers and I do not have any time
in a Zenith 601/650 to compare. I did some work in a Czech Sport Cruiser
and the instructor that I used had also flown a 601xl and said the handling
was very similar.The airplane I used is located in the DFW area.Floyd
----------------------------------------
From: "Doug - SportAviation" <Doug.Norman@sportaviation.aero>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09
I've been told that a Grumman is a close approximation. Even to the
pitchiness.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/05/09
Hi John,
I agree with you, but your comment got me thinking.
The more different model planes you fly, the more likely you will
learn to control your pitch and other attitude components by visual
feedback rather than thinking a certain force will get a known
response. Even flying the exact same plane from one extreme loading
to another can make a big difference in pitch response. Once you
learn to use visual feedback for you attitude control it gets much
easier to fly any plane and to switch from one to another.
That said, each make and model flies differently from all
others. The only way to really get appropriate experience is to fly
the exact make and model of interest. Perhaps that is why you need
to make three landings in the given model before taking passengers.
Insurance companies and brokers are very good at finding close
substitutes for rare planes. To qualify for insurance in a CH601XL I
had one broker tell me I needed to get time in anything with a 601 in
the model and another tell me I needed time in the exact same model to
qualify.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
do not archive
At 07:43 AM 10/6/2009, you wrote:
>I have not flown a CH2000. In my opinion, a Cherokee 140 would NOT
>be a good primer for a CH601HD or HDS. An aircraft with a control
>wheel (as in the CH2000) is NOT a good primer for the stick in an HD
>or HDS. I don't think it would prepare a relatively low-time pilot
>(like me!) for the very sensitive pitch control in an HD or HDS.
>
>John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto.
Message 7
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With this or something like it.
http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14018/css/14018_568.htm
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266844#266844
Message 8
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Or like this.? An A3 rivet tail will fit in a #30 hole (for an A4 rivet) and an
A4 rivet tail will fit a #20 hole (for an A5 rivet).
-----Original Message-----
From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 1:52 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: UK Mods
With this or something like it.
http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14018/css/14018_568.htm
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266844#266844
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