Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:09 AM - Chat Reminder (George Race)
2. 07:48 AM - tooling holes (djluscher)
3. 09:06 AM - Zodiac Series Checklist (Bill Naumuk)
4. 09:12 AM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (lwhitlow)
5. 09:30 AM - Re: Zodiac Series Checklist (Carlos Sa)
6. 09:44 AM - Re: Zodiac Series Checklist (Bill Naumuk)
7. 09:47 AM - Re: Zodiac Series Checklist (Doug - SportAviation)
8. 11:15 AM - Re: tooling holes (LarryMcFarland)
9. 11:15 AM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (leinad)
10. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Doug - SportAviation)
11. 12:03 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (leinad)
12. 12:58 PM - Re: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Bryan Martin)
13. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Doug - SportAviation)
14. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (afterfxllc@aol.com)
15. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Jay Maynard)
16. 03:02 PM - Re: tooling holes (djluscher)
17. 05:02 PM - SAIB (roger lambert)
18. 05:03 PM - Re: tooling holes (kmccune)
19. 05:53 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (leinad)
20. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Greg Cox)
21. 06:34 PM - wing mod (spitfire55)
22. 08:04 PM - Polishing a CH710 (JohnDRead@aol.com)
23. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Peter Chapman)
24. 08:58 PM - Re: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Paul Mulwitz)
25. 09:01 PM - Re: Polishing a CH710 ()
26. 09:12 PM - Re: Polishing a CH710 ()
27. 09:49 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (lwhitlow)
28. 09:54 PM - Re: Polishing a CH710 (Stanley A Challgren)
Message 1
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Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT
www.mykitairplane.com <http://www.mykitairplane.com/>
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
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Hi Group,
I'm just starting to build CH750 from plans and am making form blocks for the rudder
ribs. The plans only indicate the location for tooling holes on the nose
rib. The others are unspecified and I was seeking some advice/assurance on
using two or three 1/4" holes on the center line of each rib to hold blanks between
the form blocks. On the narrow end of the ribs these holes will be within
an inch of the flange.
Is this OK? Any rules of thumb for drilling holes in small ribs?
thanks in advance,
DJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271693#271693
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| Subject: | Zodiac Series Checklist |
All-
How can I access the " Zodiac Series Checklist " highlighted in the
AMD PDF? You can't get there from here.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Questions For Discussion
1. The FAA is saying that the E-AB guys should use the AMD fixes How will we get
these drawings and parts?/ I am not a customer of AMD I bought a kit from the
boys in Mexico MO. Anybody on the list have any contact with the Zenith in Mexico
MO?? I'm assuming they are doing the changes for AMD and are the ones really
doing the drawings and making the parts??
2. The AMD Letter refers to the EU/UK LAA mass balance weights drawings and I've
read that. However, the LAA doc also calls for a carry through spar mod that
AMD makes no mention of. SOOOOOO are we gonna have to do the carry through mod
or not???
3. The AMD docs say the plane should be placarded per the November 2009 bulletin.
So how do the E-AB guys get that bulletin?
What a mess. I think its poor planning and PR and engineering practice to point
to a EU / UK LAA document that is not drawn and managed by the designer / manufacturer,
and not at least discuss WHY you are NOT saying we should do everything
in this document but only do part of it.
Zenith /AMD may not feel the spar mod is needed but at least say that or SAY SOMETHING!
To be mute on the issue is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!
I'm ready, willing and able to do any mod to my nearly complete 601XL but I want
words from Zenith as to their reasoning behind only implementing part of the
LAA letter and not all of it
Zenith NOW IS THE TIME TO SPEAK UP!!! Every day you waste not addressing these
questions devalues my aircraft, your investment in the 601 / 650 program and the
Zenith Aircraft company.
I believe that no matter what problems may exists with the 601 /650 they are all
fixable and we can have a safe respected airplane, but that requires the factory
and designer to step up and say something
Larry Whitlow
601XL Jabiru 3300
N69102 (reserved)
I was about 90% done but now I apparently have more to do
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271707#271707
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac Series Checklist |
Try this:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/Zodiac%20checklist%20-%20September%202009.pdf
Carlos
2009/11/8 Bill Naumuk <naumuk@windstream.net>
> All-
> How can I access the " Zodiac Series Checklist " highlighted in the
> AMD PDF? You can't get there from here.
>
> Bill Naumuk
> Townville, Pa.
> HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
>
> **
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac Series Checklist |
Very good. Thanks, Carlos.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Sa
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac Series Checklist
Try this:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/Zodiac%20checklist%20-%20Septembe
r%202009.pdf
Carlos
2009/11/8 Bill Naumuk <naumuk@windstream.net>
All-
How can I access the " Zodiac Series Checklist " highlighted in
the AMD PDF? You can't get there from here.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 7
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| Subject: | Zodiac Series Checklist |
attached
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:06 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac Series Checklist
All-
How can I access the " Zodiac Series Checklist " highlighted in the AMD
PDF? You can't get there from here.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: tooling holes |
Hi DJ,
Tooling holes are generally found on the centerline, but just be careful
that that hole doesn't interfere with
points of attachment etc. Presuming the holes will be used to sandwich
the rib between forms and center flanged holes.
You only need one every foot or so. The vise you use to grip while
hammering flanges will provide a better hold at small ends.
Don't forget to add the 7-degree over bend angle.
Larry McFarland 602HDS at www.macsmachine.com
djluscher wrote:
>
> Hi Group,
> I'm just starting to build CH750 from plans and am making form blocks for the
rudder ribs. The plans only indicate the location for tooling holes on the nose
rib. The others are unspecified and I was seeking some advice/assurance on
using two or three 1/4" holes on the center line of each rib to hold blanks
between the form blocks. On the narrow end of the ribs these holes will be within
an inch of the flange.
>
> Is this OK? Any rules of thumb for drilling holes in small ribs?
> thanks in advance,
> DJ
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271693#271693
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Larry,
I was thinking of the same questions. I'm a plans builder, and have never had
any dealings with AMD. Why is the FAA acting as if AMD is the manufacturer?
Why aren't the recommendations coming out of Zenith instead of AMD? My airframe
is also almost complete.
My hope is the Zenith (not AMD) puts out a design update soon that addresses all
of the FAA's concerns, and that those changes are provided to us builders at
no additional cost.
Dan
lwhitlow wrote:
> Questions For Discussion
>
> 1. The FAA is saying that the E-AB guys should use the AMD fixes How will we
get these drawings and parts?/ I am not a customer of AMD I bought a kit from
the boys in Mexico MO. Anybody on the list have any contact with the Zenith in
Mexico MO?? I'm assuming they are doing the changes for AMD and are the ones
really doing the drawings and making the parts??
>
> 2. The AMD Letter refers to the EU/UK LAA mass balance weights drawings and I've
read that. However, the LAA doc also calls for a carry through spar mod that
AMD makes no mention of. SOOOOOO are we gonna have to do the carry through
mod or not???
>
> 3. The AMD docs say the plane should be placarded per the November 2009 bulletin.
So how do the E-AB guys get that bulletin?
>
> What a mess. I think its poor planning and PR and engineering practice to point
to a EU / UK LAA document that is not drawn and managed by the designer / manufacturer,
and not at least discuss WHY you are NOT saying we should do everything
in this document but only do part of it.
>
> Zenith /AMD may not feel the spar mod is needed but at least say that or SAY
SOMETHING! To be mute on the issue is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!
>
> I'm ready, willing and able to do any mod to my nearly complete 601XL but I want
words from Zenith as to their reasoning behind only implementing part of the
LAA letter and not all of it
>
> Zenith NOW IS THE TIME TO SPEAK UP!!! Every day you waste not addressing these
questions devalues my aircraft, your investment in the 601 / 650 program and
the Zenith Aircraft company.
>
> I believe that no matter what problems may exists with the 601 /650 they are
all fixable and we can have a safe respected airplane, but that requires the factory
and designer to step up and say something
>
> Larry Whitlow
> 601XL Jabiru 3300
> N69102 (reserved)
> I was about 90% done but now I apparently have more to do
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271718#271718
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
AMD is the manufacturer for the SLSA version. The SLSA is the only version
which the FAA has any hold over; and even that is indirect. Owners of SLSA
airplanes are required (by law) to pay attention to SA/Ds issued by their
manufacturer. It's not a suggestion for us. For SLSAs, the issuance of a
SA/D by their airplane's manufacturer is the same as an issuance of an AD by
the FAA for a standard airplane.
By hitch-hiking on the AMD Safety Alert/Directive, the FAA can push the
Zodiac experimental community to pay attention - they can't force their
attention; but if they could, they would. The FAA is couching E-AB and ELSA
adherence to the AMD SA/D as an airworthiness issue which you ignore at your
peril. They can't force you, but if you have an incident, and you have not
made the changes, then (their reasoning is that) you knowingly operated your
aircraft in a non-airworthy condition - which is against the FARs.
I suspect that Zenith will publish the AMD pages as the design which Zenith
customers should use. And, Zenith will probably make kits available for the
retrofit.
Best of luck,
Doug Norman, CFI, AGI
AMD Zodiac N601DN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of leinad
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650
Larry,
I was thinking of the same questions. I'm a plans builder, and have never
had any dealings with AMD. Why is the FAA acting as if AMD is the
manufacturer? Why aren't the recommendations coming out of Zenith instead
of AMD? My airframe is also almost complete.
My hope is the Zenith (not AMD) puts out a design update soon that addresses
all of the FAA's concerns, and that those changes are provided to us
builders at no additional cost.
Dan
lwhitlow wrote:
> Questions For Discussion
>
> 1. The FAA is saying that the E-AB guys should use the AMD fixes How will
we get these drawings and parts?/ I am not a customer of AMD I bought a kit
from the boys in Mexico MO. Anybody on the list have any contact with the
Zenith in Mexico MO?? I'm assuming they are doing the changes for AMD and
are the ones really doing the drawings and making the parts??
>
> 2. The AMD Letter refers to the EU/UK LAA mass balance weights drawings
and I've read that. However, the LAA doc also calls for a carry through spar
mod that AMD makes no mention of. SOOOOOO are we gonna have to do the carry
through mod or not???
>
> 3. The AMD docs say the plane should be placarded per the November 2009
bulletin. So how do the E-AB guys get that bulletin?
>
> What a mess. I think its poor planning and PR and engineering practice to
point to a EU / UK LAA document that is not drawn and managed by the
designer / manufacturer, and not at least discuss WHY you are NOT saying we
should do everything in this document but only do part of it.
>
> Zenith /AMD may not feel the spar mod is needed but at least say that or
SAY SOMETHING! To be mute on the issue is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!
>
> I'm ready, willing and able to do any mod to my nearly complete 601XL but
I want words from Zenith as to their reasoning behind only implementing part
of the LAA letter and not all of it
>
> Zenith NOW IS THE TIME TO SPEAK UP!!! Every day you waste not addressing
these questions devalues my aircraft, your investment in the 601 / 650
program and the Zenith Aircraft company.
>
> I believe that no matter what problems may exists with the 601 /650 they
are all fixable and we can have a safe respected airplane, but that requires
the factory and designer to step up and say something
>
> Larry Whitlow
> 601XL Jabiru 3300
> N69102 (reserved)
> I was about 90% done but now I apparently have more to do
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271718#271718
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Doug,
You say the FAA has no hold over us Experimental builders, but as I haven't completed
my build and the FAA has to inspect it and grant an airworthiness certificate
for it, it seams like they do have at least some hold over us EAB guys.
Dan
Doug.Norman(at)sportaviat wrote:
> AMD is the manufacturer for the SLSA version. The SLSA is the only version
> which the FAA has any hold over; and even that is indirect. Owners of SLSA
> airplanes are required (by law) to pay attention to SA/Ds issued by their
> manufacturer. It's not a suggestion for us. For SLSAs, the issuance of a
> SA/D by their airplane's manufacturer is the same as an issuance of an AD by
> the FAA for a standard airplane.
>
> By hitch-hiking on the AMD Safety Alert/Directive, the FAA can push the
> Zodiac experimental community to pay attention - they can't force their
> attention; but if they could, they would. The FAA is couching E-AB and ELSA
> adherence to the AMD SA/D as an airworthiness issue which you ignore at your
> peril. They can't force you, but if you have an incident, and you have not
> made the changes, then (their reasoning is that) you knowingly operated your
> aircraft in a non-airworthy condition - which is against the FARs.
>
> I suspect that Zenith will publish the AMD pages as the design which Zenith
> customers should use. And, Zenith will probably make kits available for the
> retrofit.
>
> Best of luck,
> Doug Norman, CFI, AGI
> AMD Zodiac N601DN
>
> --
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271724#271724
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Unless things have changed quite a bit since I got my inspection, the
airworthiness inspection is primarily a paperwork inspection. My
inspector looked over my plane in just a bit more detail than you
would give to a typical pre-flight inspection, The primary points of
the inspection were to make sure all the forms were properly filled
out, the panel was properly marked, all the placards and markings were
in place and make sure all the required documents were in the
airplane. The inspector is not likely to get out your plans and go
over them in detail to make sure you followed them correctly.
On Nov 8, 2009, at 3:02 PM, leinad wrote:
>
> Doug,
> You say the FAA has no hold over us Experimental builders, but as I
> haven't completed my build and the FAA has to inspect it and grant
> an airworthiness certificate for it, it seams like they do have at
> least some hold over us EAB guys.
> Dan
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
That's an excellent point. I don't know what a DAR would do given the
current facts and circumstances.
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of leinad
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650
Doug,
You say the FAA has no hold over us Experimental builders, but as I haven't
completed my build and the FAA has to inspect it and grant an airworthiness
certificate for it, it seams like they do have at least some hold over us
EAB guys.
Dan
Doug.Norman(at)sportaviat wrote:
> AMD is the manufacturer for the SLSA version. The SLSA is the only version
> which the FAA has any hold over; and even that is indirect. Owners of SLSA
> airplanes are required (by law) to pay attention to SA/Ds issued by their
> manufacturer. It's not a suggestion for us. For SLSAs, the issuance of a
> SA/D by their airplane's manufacturer is the same as an issuance of an AD
by
> the FAA for a standard airplane.
>
> By hitch-hiking on the AMD Safety Alert/Directive, the FAA can push the
> Zodiac experimental community to pay attention - they can't force their
> attention; but if they could, they would. The FAA is couching E-AB and
ELSA
> adherence to the AMD SA/D as an airworthiness issue which you ignore at
your
> peril. They can't force you, but if you have an incident, and you have not
> made the changes, then (their reasoning is that) you knowingly operated
your
> aircraft in a non-airworthy condition - which is against the FARs.
>
> I suspect that Zenith will publish the AMD pages as the design which
Zenith
> customers should use. And, Zenith will probably make kits available for
the
> retrofit.
>
> Best of luck,
> Doug Norman, CFI, AGI
> AMD Zodiac N601DN
>
> --
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271724#271724
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
I would bet every DAR will know of the FAA's decision and will not issue
an airworthiness if the mods aren't done. I beleve they have to request
permission from their field office to preform the inspection so a DAR tha
t doesn't know of the mods is not going to happen.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:55 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650
Unless things have changed quite a bit since I got my inspection, the airw
orthiness inspection is primarily a paperwork inspection. My inspector loo
ked over my plane in just a bit more detail than you would give to a typic
al pre-flight inspection, The primary points of the inspection were to mak
e sure all the forms were properly filled out, the panel was properly mark
ed, all the placards and markings were in place and make sure all the requ
ired documents were in the airplane. The inspector is not likely to get ou
t your plans and go over them in detail to make sure you followed them cor
rectly.
On Nov 8, 2009, at 3:02 PM, leinad wrote:
>
> Doug,
> You say the FAA has no hold over us Experimental builders, but as I > ha
ven't completed my build and the FAA has to inspect it and grant > an airw
orthiness certificate for it, it seams like they do have at > least some
hold over us EAB guys.
> Dan
>
--Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 11:15:29AM -0800, leinad wrote:
> I was thinking of the same questions. I'm a plans builder, and have never
> had any dealings with AMD. Why is the FAA acting as if AMD is the
> manufacturer? Why aren't the recommendations coming out of Zenith instead
> of AMD? My airframe is also almost complete.
Because the FAA can't deal with Zenith for much of anything. The FAA *can*
deal with AMD, as the manufacturer of the SLSA version (*not* Zenith). As
far as the FAA is concerned, for the SLSA, AMD *is* the manufacturer.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: tooling holes |
Hi Larry,
Thanks for the guidance. To be clear, many of the rudder ribs have flanges 2 degree
open. Do you mean a 7-degree relief or bevel on the rib form is a good
number to get a 92 degree flange or do you mean I should bevel form blocks 7-degrees
closed beyond the desired flange angle (5 degrees total bevel in this case?)
I see 10-deg net called out in the construction standards from Zenith,
but am anxious to hear what angle has proven to work best in practice.
thanks again,
DJ
larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> Hi DJ,
> Tooling holes are generally found on the centerline, but just be careful
> that that hole doesn't interfere with
> points of attachment etc. Presuming the holes will be used to sandwich
> the rib between forms and center flanged holes.
> You only need one every foot or so. The vise you use to grip while
> hammering flanges will provide a better hold at small ends.
> Don't forget to add the 7-degree over bend angle.
>
> Larry McFarland 602HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> djluscher wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Group,
> > I'm just starting to build CH750 from plans and am making form blocks for
the rudder ribs. The plans only indicate the location for tooling holes on the
nose rib. The others are unspecified and I was seeking some advice/assurance
on using two or three 1/4" holes on the center line of each rib to hold blanks
between the form blocks. On the narrow end of the ribs these holes will be
within an inch of the flange.
> >
> > Is this OK? Any rules of thumb for drilling holes in small ribs?
> > thanks in advance,
> > DJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 71693#271693
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271737#271737
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A Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) is an information tool
that alerts, educates, and makes recommendations to the aviation community.
SAIBs contain non-regulatory information and guidance that does not meet the
criteria for an Airworthiness Directive (AD).
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| Subject: | Re: tooling holes |
I don't think the location of the tooling holes are that critical in the rear rudder
ribs as they are just a way to clamp the form around the rib blank. But
then I'm I lovely down town Chicago, getting ready for a 10 day Fabtech trade
show marathon.... :( so I don't have my prints handy, though they are 701 prints,they
may have helped.
Kevin
--------
History is a great teacher if you take time to study it.
Steve Bennett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271746#271746
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Bryan,
I recall a thread on this some time ago. Inspections run the gamut from a cursory
look over the plane and check of the paper work to all day long affairs where
every detail that can be gotten to is scrutinized. I really don't know what
to expect on inspection day. I just have to be as ready as I can be. I'm
sure I'll make the required mods, I'm just not sure what they are or where the
information will come from.
I"m guessing that mass balance of the ailerons will be part of the change. Does
this mean the flex hinges are out? Just another of many questions.
Anyone interested should come to chat to talk about this tomorrow night.
Dan
bryanmmartin wrote:
> Unless things have changed quite a bit since I got my inspection, the
> airworthiness inspection is primarily a paperwork inspection. My
> inspector looked over my plane in just a bit more detail than you
> would give to a typical pre-flight inspection, The primary points of
> the inspection were to make sure all the forms were properly filled
> out, the panel was properly marked, all the placards and markings were
> in place and make sure all the required documents were in the
> airplane. The inspector is not likely to get out your plans and go
> over them in detail to make sure you followed them correctly.
>
> On Nov 8, 2009, at 3:02 PM, leinad wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Doug,
> > You say the FAA has no hold over us Experimental builders, but as I
> > haven't completed my build and the FAA has to inspect it and grant
> > an airworthiness certificate for it, it seams like they do have at
> > least some hold over us EAB guys.
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
> do not archive.
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271752#271752
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Go to the ZAC website, all the mod info is on there.
Greg Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of leinad
Sent: Monday, 9 November 2009 12:53 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650
Bryan,
I recall a thread on this some time ago. Inspections run the gamut from
a cursory look over the plane and check of the paper work to all day
long affairs where every detail that can be gotten to is scrutinized. I
really don't know what to expect on inspection day. I just have to be
as ready as I can be. I'm sure I'll make the required mods, I'm just
not sure what they are or where the information will come from.
I"m guessing that mass balance of the ailerons will be part of the
change. Does this mean the flex hinges are out? Just another of many
questions.
Anyone interested should come to chat to talk about this tomorrow night.
Dan
bryanmmartin wrote:
> Unless things have changed quite a bit since I got my inspection, the
> airworthiness inspection is primarily a paperwork inspection. My
> inspector looked over my plane in just a bit more detail than you
> would give to a typical pre-flight inspection, The primary points of
> the inspection were to make sure all the forms were properly filled
> out, the panel was properly marked, all the placards and markings were
> in place and make sure all the required documents were in the
> airplane. The inspector is not likely to get out your plans and go
> over them in detail to make sure you followed them correctly.
>
> On Nov 8, 2009, at 3:02 PM, leinad wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Doug,
> > You say the FAA has no hold over us Experimental builders, but as I
> > haven't completed my build and the FAA has to inspect it and grant
> > an airworthiness certificate for it, it seams like they do have at
> > least some hold over us EAB guys.
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
> do not archive.
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271752#271752
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The drawing for the new wing mod are now on Zenith's web site!
Bill
--------
William Studdy CH 250 Built,Flying,Sold
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271757#271757
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| Subject: | Polishing a CH710 |
Hello List;
I am considering polishing my CH701. Does anyone have a
suggestion for materials and technique?
John Read
CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
At 21:33 08-11-09, you wrote:
>
>Go to the ZAC website, all the mod info is on there.
There's a massive number of changes!
As a brief initial summary:
(Note I may be wrong somewhere as I'm doing this quickly and am not
personally involved with an XL)
SPARS (or at least, p1 of the Zenair Upgrade)
- main spar top cap - L angle extrustion, for about half span
(and some bolts in place of rivets)
- doubler for the main spar web at the wing root (with a spacer)
- rear spar doubler around the aileron pushrod cutout
- doubler plate for rear spar channel inboard
- rear spar top cap - L angle for full span
CENTER SECTION (p2 of the Zenair Upgrade)
- center spar top cap doubler
- additional L doubler for center spar top cap
- new heavier front wing uprights
- 4 heavy L angle uprights on center spar to brace it
- web doubler for spar at wing attach bolts (and shims)
WINGS & FUSELAGE (p3 of the Zenair Upgrade)
- new style support channel for aileron bell crank
- L angles to reinforce the rib with bell crank (2 on top, 2 on bottom)
- angles to brace the forward fuselage around the wing uprights (Z
angle to the front, L angle to the aft)
- gussets to brace the top of the wing uprights (front and aft)
- longer angles around seat pan cutouts
- new thicker rear wing attach plates
- more rivets inboard between spar and wing skin
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Hi Peter,
Your list of changes only considers the drawings currently posted as
AMD changes. There's a lot more to be done to meet Chris Heintz's
requirements including aileron mass balance, control system
sensitivity change, and I have no idea what else.
If you read the 7 page Q&A you will see there are a bunch of changes
in the "Package" not included in the 3 pages of drawings.
Still, I am glad the whole thing is coming to a conclusion. I intend
to install all the changes on my plane.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes.
At 07:30 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
>There's a massive number of changes!
>
>As a brief initial summary:
>(Note I may be wrong somewhere as I'm doing this quickly and am not
>personally involved with an XL)
>
>
>SPARS (or at least, p1 of the Zenair Upgrade)
>
>- main spar top cap - L angle extrustion, for about half span
>(and some bolts in place of rivets)
>- doubler for the main spar web at the wing root (with a spacer)
>
>- rear spar doubler around the aileron pushrod cutout
>- doubler plate for rear spar channel inboard
>- rear spar top cap - L angle for full span
>
>
>CENTER SECTION (p2 of the Zenair Upgrade)
>- center spar top cap doubler
>- additional L doubler for center spar top cap
>
>- new heavier front wing uprights
>- 4 heavy L angle uprights on center spar to brace it
>- web doubler for spar at wing attach bolts (and shims)
>
>
>WINGS & FUSELAGE (p3 of the Zenair Upgrade)
>- new style support channel for aileron bell crank
>- L angles to reinforce the rib with bell crank (2 on top, 2 on bottom)
>
>- angles to brace the forward fuselage around the wing uprights (Z
>angle to the front, L angle to the aft)
>- gussets to brace the top of the wing uprights (front and aft)
>
>- longer angles around seat pan cutouts
>
>- new thicker rear wing attach plates
>
>- more rivets inboard between spar and wing skin
>
>
>Peter Chapman
>Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Polishing a CH710 |
John,
Go to this address
http://www.nuvitechemical.com/procedures_html.asp?ProcedureTitle=Metal%20Polishing%20Non-Clad%20Sheet%20Metal%20Procedures
If your a member of EAA, they have a short video on their help for homebuilders.
I'm using Nuvite on my HDS and so far am really happy with the looks.
Jerry
ch601 HDS
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| Subject: | Re: Polishing a CH710 |
John,
There was also this thread on zenith.aero.
http://www.zenith.aero/forum/topics/polishing-1
Hope this helps.
Jerry
---- JohnDRead@aol.com wrote:
> Hello List;
> I am considering polishing my CH701. Does anyone have a
> suggestion for materials and technique?
>
> John Read
> CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
>
> Phone: 303-648-3261
> Fax: 303-648-3262
> Cell: 719-494-4567
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Here's the link to the mods
http://www.zenithair.com/news/ntsb-astm-4-09a.html
OK That was faster than I expected.
I do have sympathy for what Chris said in his answer to Question 2 about non-disclosure
per NTSB rules and he mentions they are being sued as reasons they have
not spoken much on the matter. I was un-aware anyone had started legal action.
OK so a few of my questions have been addressed well, but a few have gotten more
cloudy
I note the EXTENSIVE spar mods both in the wing and in the center section, and
do wonder about how much weight is getting put in here??
The drawings are great but has this been done on an actual 601?? are there pictures
yet?? I know this is hot off the presses but have they actually replaced
these parts on a completed aircraft?
And of course the hard to pin down "is it flutter or not issue?" OK so we beef
it up to prevent it. Great! Chris addresses it in Question 8 that yes Weights
are now going to be used. But unless I'm looking through it I see no drawings
of the weights. I have the LAA drawings but I really would like it if a set
would come from Zenith and the people who know the aircraft. Are we supposed
to use the LAA drawings???
I wonder how long it will be before we can get the upgrade kits in hand?? I never
did the final close on my wings so I'm pretty good there but some of the spar
work is gonna be a pain in the butt on a mostly finished fuselage..
Small price to pay I suppose...
Larry Whitlow
601XL Jabiru 3300 Sensenich Composite prop
N69102 (Reserved)
90% done with the first build
0% done with the mods
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Polishing a CH710 |
John:
I used Nuvite for my previous 601 and am using it again on my 701. I
recommend it highly.
I will get a packet of information to you tomorrow.
Stan
On Nov 8, 2009, at 20:43 , JohnDRead@aol.com wrote:
> Hello List;
> I am considering polishing my CH701. Does anyone
> have a suggestion for materials and technique?
>
> John Read
> CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
>
> Phone: 303-648-3261
> Fax: 303-648-3262
> Cell: 719-494-4567
>
>
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