Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 PM - Push Rods (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
2. 02:33 PM - need latest XL upgrade drawings (chris Sinfield)
3. 02:53 PM - Re: need latest XL upgrade drawings (Terry Phillips)
4. 10:44 PM - Re: Agnos AR NTSB Pics are up ()
Message 1
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List
Add 2 more that want to go back with Push Rods while the wing is opened.
We both would buy a kit today if one was available.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Bobby
Jacksonville, Fl.
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| Subject: | need latest XL upgrade drawings |
Gang
I am away from my computer which has the Dec 6-ZU upgrade drawings, the ones with
the external fuselage doubler above the wings.
Can some one please send me them so I can use them for discussion with a sheet
metal guy please. And yes I know they are draft..
Chris
chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276748#276748
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| Subject: | Re: need latest XL upgrade drawings |
Done
Terry
At 02:31 PM 12/8/2009 -0800, you wrote:
>Gang
>I am away from my computer which has the Dec 6-ZU upgrade drawings, the
>ones with the external fuselage doubler above the wings.
>Can some one please send me them so I can use them for discussion with a
>sheet metal guy please. And yes I know they are draft..
>Chris
> chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Balancing the ailerons and working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Agnos AR NTSB Pics are up |
Sorry to be so blunt, but these pictures show diddly., so I've got a few
questions:
Why are there no pictures of the wing spar attach points? Why are there
no pictures of the wing spar carry-throughs? Who took these pictures?
And who selected these?
Let's review what happened here. The wings separated in flight, thus
causing the crash. Buckling of the rear spars somewhere outboard would
have made the plane uncontrollable, but it would not likely have come
apart until impact. That's not what we see here. The wings are
elsewhere, having come off and been stripped of their aileron cables and
bell cranks in the process. Not surprising; that's a 900-pound or so
tensile cable pulling out of a 200 or so pound tensile wing rib. Of
course it will tear a hole where the pushrod was, and MAYBE cause a
compression failure in the rear spar top or bottom, but the compression
failure could have as easily come from impact, AFTER separation. Either
way, the compression failures had to occur AFTER wing separation. You
wouldn't get compression failures like that unless the main spar bent
backwards. We don't have a view of the spar. Back to the questions: How
did the wings separate? Without the evidence provided by pictures (and a
few microscopic close-ups would also have been helpful) we don't know if
the wings moved longitudinally to failure, or vertically. Did they fail
upwards or downwards? Did anybody check the fuselage side skins for the
gouges which must have been made at the time of failure? Which
component, the main or rear spar, failed first? Are the broken ends
torn, sheared, or bent to failure? Do the broken ends show oxidation, or
pitting, as might be seen in a substandard material, or old fatigue
crack? How much twist is there at the failure point? The rivet marks on
the flaps don't mean much. Once the actuator arm is separated, the flap
can bang back and forth in the turbulent airstream of the falling wing,
or its inertia can cause those marks if the wing hits the ground leading
edge first, or inverted, or even flaps-first. Maybe the crash
investigator addressed these questions during his examination of the
wreckage, but if he did, we should have access to those answers.
The pictures we see apparently were taken from 14:51 to 16:26. In an
hour and 35 minutes, he had to have taken more than 11 pictures.
Anybody feels like flaming, go right ahead. But we still don't know any
more now than earlier.
Paul R
Waiting for the kit.
----- Original Message -----
From: lwhitlow<mailto:ldwhitlow@comcast.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:49 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Agnos AR NTSB Pics are up
<ldwhitlow@comcast.net<mailto:ldwhitlow@comcast.net>>
Agnos AR NTSB Pics are up
I saw them posted over on the zenith.aero site here
http://www.zenith.aero/forum/topics/ntsb-photos-from-most-recent<http://w
ww.zenith.aero/forum/topics/ntsb-photos-from-most-recent>
My question after viewing them is still the same as it was after
seeing the Yuba City pictures
What failed first??
The pics show the compression buckling in the rear spar at RR7 ( the
rib that mounts the bell crank) and in other places inboard But the
notes also indicate that the cables, bell crank, aileron push rod and
aileron bracket were ripped out through the wing as the wing left the
airframe and all remained attached to the fuselage. Could some of the
noted damage have come from this stuff getting pulled through the wing??
I mean that bell crank is not gonna fit through the holes in the ribs
and if it comes out that way could it cause the bends in the rear spar??
Pics of the interior of that wing would help.
The score marks on the flap are also interesting. Enough upward force
was put on the flap push it up past the stop so its upper leading edge
made contact with the rivet bottoms in the rear spar. Or did the wing
rear spar move down, with the flap held in place by the control arm thus
causing the scars Again a pic of the rear spar doubler / mounting hole
and the rear spar attach bracket would answer the question
I would really like to see the failure mode of the main spar to center
spar and the rear spar to rear attach
You would think in this day and age with digital cameras what they
are, there would be hundreds of pictures. I mean its only electrons
Larry Whitlow
Read this topic online here:
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