Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - Re: New Drawings are up at Zenith (chris Sinfield)
2. 06:05 AM - Re: A smidge of good news (sdthatcher)
3. 08:12 AM - Re: A smidge of good news (sonar1@cox.net)
4. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: A6 rivet (Carlos Sa)
5. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: A smidge of good news (Craig Payne)
6. 10:34 AM - Re: A smidge of good news (aussiech650)
7. 10:54 AM - Re: Mod Kit. ()
8. 11:04 AM - Re: Agnos AR NTSB Pics are up ()
9. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: A smidge of good news (Wade Jones)
10. 01:02 PM - Center section finished (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
11. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: A smidge of good news. (Gary Gower)
12. 07:04 PM - stuck (Carlos Sa)
13. 07:20 PM - Re: stuck (Paul Mulwitz)
14. 07:51 PM - Re: stuck (Lawrence Webber)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: New Drawings are up at Zenith |
I see on page 1 that the new limits are back to 600KG and the airspeed VNE is 160mph
of one note was that the new -G limit of only -2 G normal and -3 G ultimate I
thought the wing was stronger than the original and that was -4 Normal and -6
ULT.? so what gives is this new wing stronger or not?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276969#276969
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| Subject: | Re: A smidge of good news |
Great job Kevin keeping your options open and the plane in the air! It doesn't
always work out that way.
Scott Thatcher
N601EL w/WW Corvair 40+ hours
http://placestofly.com
kkinney wrote:
> I've debated whether or not to post this. In the end, I figured it could help
others, even if it does my ego no good.
>
> My 601XL took to the air on 11/21 and she flew like an airsick angel. Yes, airsick,
although it shouldn't reflect on either the airframe or engine. Only on
the pilot & builder.
>
> On takeoff I bobbled the rotation (a merciful interpretation) and flew in ground
effect to pick up speed. Near the end of the runway, the RPM dropped. I had
previously studied the satellite photos and knew turning left would give me
more options.
>
>
> Regards,
> Kevin Kinney
>
> P.S. After changing the fuel filter and more testing, we flew a traditional rectangular
pattern. Let flight testing proceed!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276982#276982
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| Subject: | Re: A smidge of good news |
Good job Kevin! I had a forced landing in a disked field in my 701 because of a
clogged fuel filter. I used the little filter 05-01031 from Aircraft Spruce
- cute, small, transparent, and rated for more than enough fuel flow. Over 20
hours, it got clogged with little transparent threads - I suppose from the airport
fuel supply. I would warn everyone to avoid these, and go for a larger filter.
Fred Sanford N9701
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277002#277002
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Dan, I am talking about the A6 pop rivet.
We use it as a replacement for A5 when the hole is oversize, and in a few
spots of the 601-HD wing.
I just spoke to Caleb, and he says A6 are already domed, the riveter
modification isn't necessary.
Carlos
2009/12/9 leinad <leinad@hughes.net>
>
> Carlos,
> If we are talking about the solid rivets as used in the spar they are
> domed. The drawing calls for:
> AN-470-AD-6-14s
> I think I heard that the kit will have the fasteners included.. but don't
> quote me.
> Dan
>
> [quote="carlossa52(at)gmail.com"]Can somebody tell me whether A6 rivets
> also need to have a domed head?
>
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD, plans
> Riveting centre wing
>
> > [b]
>
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| Subject: | Re: A smidge of good news |
Are you sure about the 05-01031 p/n? Spruce shows that as "In-tank type.
Brass construction with fine-mesh screen. Has standard 1/4" barb inlet and
outlet tubes.". This picture shows an in-tank part made entirely of metal.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sonar1@cox.net
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 8:12 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A smidge of good news
Good job Kevin! I had a forced landing in a disked field in my 701 because
of a clogged fuel filter. I used the little filter 05-01031 from Aircraft
Spruce - cute, small, transparent, and rated for more than enough fuel flow.
Over 20 hours, it got clogged with little transparent threads - I suppose
from the airport fuel supply. I would warn everyone to avoid these, and go
for a larger filter.
Fred Sanford N9701
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277002#277002
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| Subject: | Re: A smidge of good news |
Thats great advise Fred, the ability of the fuel filter to prevent clogging is
directly proportional to the surface area of the filtration media. At all times,
when it comes to fuel filters, the bigger the better and always on the pressure
side between the pump and the fuel metering device (carby or injector)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277028#277028
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Nope, don't know. Actually, I haven't followed very closely, since it's
likely we won't get the kits until some time in January. I do expect,
however, that we will have a choice of bolts or rivets.
P-Rod
----- Original Message -----
From: Beckman, Rick<mailto:Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:42 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Mod Kit.
P-Rod,
I have not heard what
all is in the Mod Kit. Is it complete, yet? Last I heard, they did not
have all the parts and pieces included. Can you shed some light here?
Thanks,
Rick
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
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avigator?Zenith-List>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Agnos AR NTSB Pics are up |
Sorry, I must disagree. The outboard buckling of the rear spar is too
far away from the point of failure (attach points) Once the rear spar
started to buckle, any stress at the attach point was alleviated. IF the
plane were uncontrollable, it wouldn't have been able to exceed Vne. The
thrust line largely determines the vector of speed to Vne, and, even if
it were over Vne, what we know about moment arms, etc., would have had
the attach point fail first, and the forces at the mid point of the wing
would have immediately ceased. I'm sticking with impact damage.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: John Smith<mailto:zenithlist@yahoo.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Agnos AR NTSB Pics are up
Those pictures show quite a bit of info and I concur that more
pictures showing the junction points between the wings & fuselage would
be better. However, I would place a good bet that once the rear spars
buckled such that the plane became uncontrollable, the wings would
quickly depart thereafter.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: "paulrod36@msn.com" <paulrod36@msn.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, December 8, 2009 10:42:54 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Agnos AR NTSB Pics are up
Sorry to be so blunt, but these pictures show diddly., so I've got a
few questions:
Why are there no pictures of the wing spar attach points? Why are
there no pictures of the wing spar carry-throughs? Who took these
pictures? And who selected these?
Let's review what happened here. The wings separated in flight, thus
causing the crash. Buckling of the rear spars somewhere outboard would
have made the plane uncontrollable, but it would not likely have come
apart until impact. That's not what we see here. The wings are
elsewhere, having come off and been stripped of their aileron cables and
bell cranks in the process. Not surprising; that's a 900-pound or so
tensile cable pulling out of a 200 or so pound tensile wing rib. Of
course it will tear a hole where the pushrod was, and MAYBE cause a
compression failure in the rear spar top or bottom, but the compression
failure could have as easily come from impact, AFTER separation. Either
way, the compression failures had to occur AFTER wing separation. You
wouldn't get compression failures like that unless the main spar bent
backwards. We don't have a view of the spar. Back to the questions: How
did the wings separate? Without the evidence provided by pictures (and a
few microscopic close-ups would also have been helpful) we don't know if
the wings moved longitudinally to failure, or vertically. Did they fail
upwards or downwards? Did anybody check the fuselage side skins for the
gouges which must have been made at the time of failure? Which
component, the main or rear spar, failed first? Are the broken ends
torn, sheared, or bent to failure? Do the broken ends show oxidation, or
pitting, as might be seen in a substandard material, or old fatigue
crack? How much twist is there at the failure point? The rivet marks on
the flaps don't mean much. Once the actuator arm is separated, the flap
can bang back and forth in the turbulent airstream of the falling wing,
or its inertia can cause those marks if the wing hits the ground leading
edge first, or inverted, or even flaps-first. Maybe the crash
investigator addressed these questions during his examination of the
wreckage, but if he did, we should have access to those answers.
The pictures we see apparently were taken from 14:51 to 16:26. In an
hour and 35 minutes, he had to have taken more than 11 pictures.
Anybody feels like flaming, go right ahead. But we still don't know
any more now than earlier.
Paul R
Waiting for the kit.
----- Original Message -----
From: lwhitlow<mailto:ldwhitlow@comcast.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:49 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Agnos AR NTSB Pics are up
<ldwhitlow@comcast.net<mailto:ldwhitlow@comcast.net>>
Agnos AR NTSB Pics are up
I saw them posted over on the zenith.aero<http://zenith.aero/> site
here
http://www.zenith.aero/forum/topics/ntsb-photos-from-most-recent
My question after viewing them is still the same as it was after
seeing the Yuba City pictures
What failed first??
The pics show the compression buckling in the rear spar at RR7 ( the
rib that mounts the bell crank) and in other places inboard But the
notes also indicate that the cables, bell crank, aileron push rod and
aileron bracket were ripped out through the wing as the wing left the
airframe and all remained attached to the fuselage. Could some of the
noted damage have come from this stuff getting pulled through the wing??
I mean that bell crank is not gonna fit through the holes in the ribs
and if it comes out that way could it cause the bends in the rear spar??
Pics of the interior of that wing would help.
The score marks on the flap are also interesting. Enough upward
force was put on the flap push it up past the stop so its upper leading
edge made contact with the rivet bottoms in the rear spar. Or did the
wing rear spar move down, with the flap held in place by the control arm
thus causing the scars Again a pic of the rear spar doubler / mounting
hole and the rear spar attach bracket would answer the question
I would really like to see the failure mode of the main spar to
center spar and the rear spar to rear attach
You would think in this day and age with digital cameras what they
are, there would be hundreds of pictures. I mean its only electrons
Larry Whitlow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276667#276667
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| Subject: | Re: A smidge of good news |
Good job Kevin ,Anytime you can save yourself and your machine you have
performed well .I have been flying these planes for over 50 years and have
never had additional fuel filters other than the ones inside the tanks and
gascolater screens .If you need additional filters you should maybe consider
buying your fuel someplace else . I have seen too many planes go down from
plugged fuel filters .I know some will say what does he know ,I can only say
it has worked for the last 50 years .Wade Jones AP/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <sonar1@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:11 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A smidge of good news
>
> Good job Kevin! I had a forced landing in a disked field in my 701 because
> of a clogged fuel filter. I used the little filter 05-01031 from Aircraft
> Spruce - cute, small, transparent, and rated for more than enough fuel
> flow. Over 20 hours, it got clogged with little transparent threads - I
> suppose from the airport fuel supply. I would warn everyone to avoid
> these, and go for a larger filter.
> Fred Sanford N9701
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277002#277002
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:36:00
Message 10
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| Subject: | Center section finished |
I got the center section finished last night.
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjBbEbTZt0Y_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjBbEbTZt0Y)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: A smidge of good news. |
Hello Kevin,
-
We dont have gasoline in our strip, all the gasoline (in our hangar) goes t
hough a funnel with a chamois- cloth before pouring in the tank. The cham
ois gets washed at the end of the day, ready for the next time...- This a
re advise from the old pilots.
-
When we go Xcountry, I always carry the black funnel that has a micromesh,
was a present from a friend, he brough a few in a trip he made to USA.
-
http://www.mrfunnel.com/Mr._Funnel/Home.html
-
Hope this helps.
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
-
-
--- On Thu, 12/10/09, Wade Jones <wjones@brazoriainet.com> wrote:
From: Wade Jones <wjones@brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: A smidge of good news
Good job Kevin ,Anytime you can save yourself and your machine you have per
formed well .I have been flying these planes for over 50 years and have nev
er had additional fuel filters other than the ones inside the tanks and gas
colater screens .If you need additional filters you should maybe consider b
uying your fuel someplace else . I have seen too many planes go down from p
lugged fuel filters .I know some will say what does he know ,I can only say
it has worked for the last 50 years .Wade Jones AP/IA
----- Original Message ----- From: <sonar1@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:11 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A smidge of good news
>
> Good job Kevin! I had a forced landing in a disked field in my 701 becaus
e of a clogged fuel filter. I used the little filter 05-01031- from Aircr
aft Spruce - cute, small, transparent, and rated for more than enough fuel
flow. Over 20 hours, it got clogged with little transparent threads - I sup
pose from the airport fuel supply. I would warn everyone to avoid these, an
d go for a larger filter.
> Fred Sanford- N9701
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277002#277002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:36:00
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 12
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This is embarrassing.
I am stuck. Literally. See pictures - this is an A6 pop rivet. It won't
budge, in or out.
Access from the back is rather difficult, as the rear and front rib are
already riveted. The A6 is one of the two last rivets in this station.
I can remove the rear rib, but that's my last option - and I still will have
a stuck A6 after I remove the rear rib.
Suggestions?
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
stuck
Message 13
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Hi Carlos,
The only idea I have is to use a dremel cutoff wheel to cut the
middle of the rivet. Then either pliers or drill it out.
Paul
XL awaiting upgrade kit
At 07:01 PM 12/10/2009, you wrote:
>I am stuck. Literally. See pictures - this is an A6 pop rivet. It
>won't budge, in or out.
Message 14
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Hi Carlos get on the band saw=2Cmake a two pronged tapered wedge
from some scrap aluminum so that it fits snugly around and under the head o
f the stuck rivet first apply some wax around the rivet warm (not hot) wit
h apropane torch =2C then tap wedge aggressively while still warm this is h
ow i unstuck several a6 stainless rivs good luck
Larry Webber 601xl /corvair chugger
Subject: Zenith-List: stuck
From: carlossa52@gmail.com
This is embarrassing.
I am stuck. Literally. See pictures - this is an A6 pop rivet. It won't bud
ge=2C in or out.
Access from the back is rather difficult=2C as the rear and front rib are a
lready riveted. The A6 is one of the two last rivets in this station.
I can remove the rear rib=2C but that's my last option - and I still will h
ave a stuck A6 after I remove the rear rib.
Suggestions?
Carlos
CH601-HD=2C plans
stuck
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