Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:34 AM - Re: Computer question (Jim Belcher)
2. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Juan Vega)
3. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Jay Maynard)
4. 10:09 AM - Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Sabrina)
5. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Dan Wilde)
6. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Juan Vega)
7. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Juan Vega)
8. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Jay Maynard)
9. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Jay Maynard)
10. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Randy)
11. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 04:31 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Juan Vega)
13. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Juan Vega)
14. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (n801bh@netzero.com)
15. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Paul Mulwitz)
16. 05:22 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Peter Chapman)
17. 06:58 PM - Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Sabrina)
18. 07:48 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Dave Austin)
19. 09:56 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Computer question |
On Friday 05 February 2010 16:26:34 you wrote:
> All-
> I have some vintage 8mm movie aviation footage that has been digitized
> but still needs more work. How do you save the contents of a DVD to your
> computer hard drive? I have a DVD burner drive and contacted Nero. They
> said you could do it through Windows Explorer. Thanks.
> Bill Naumuk
> Townville, Pa.
> HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
If you are willing to spend money, and want a tool that's easy to use, I'd had
extremely good luck with DVD fab. It will make a hard disk copy of your DVD,
in DVD format. Their URL is: www.dvdfab.com.
If you're more technically inclined, there is a nice freebie program,
AVIDemux, which can convert most formats to most other formats:
http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux/
But a word of caution: it is not for the faint of heart. You'll need quite a
bit of technical understanding. Like most technical things, the thing that
does the best job takes the most knowledge.
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
601XL Builder
=======================================
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
There is a great article on the taining with regard to the MU -2 accidents years
back. every one looked at the plane, yet when training went up, accidents
went down. I believe this will be a perfect example of the 601's situation,
light sport pilots and pilots transitioning to a lighter wing load, need to
be trained to fly a very light wing loaded aircraft. They are currently focusing
their ire on an aircraft that is now "overbuilt". If accidents continue
to some extent, maybe they will finally focus on the needed items, pilot awareness,
and good building practices. Only then will this very well designed,
overbuilt aircraft find some peace.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
>Sent: Feb 4, 2010 7:12 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up
>
>
>Hi Sabrina,
>
>I am optimistic the current changes for the Zodiac XL will work just fine.
>We should see elimination of the unexplained structure failures or at least
>a huge reduction in the rate of failures.
>
>I should be entering Phase I flight testing on my Zodiac this Spring. I
>expect to spend the Summer completing the test program. After that I will
>review the state of affairs regarding in-flight failures and decide whether
>or not to go into phase II.
>
>If, indeed, the accidents continue through this year I will turn my XL into
>a flower planter for my front yard and move all the expensive parts to my
>current project - a scratch built Wittman Buttercup.
>
>Paul
>Camas, WA
>Awaiting delivery of upgrade kit.
>
>========================
>
>There had to be a reason for those 10mm doublers... maybe if others ask, the
>ASF/Piper will help us just in case the Zenith upgrade does not work out as
>planned...
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 11:01:01AM -0500, Juan Vega wrote:
> There is a great article on the taining with regard to the MU -2
> accidents years back. every one looked at the plane, yet when training
> went up, accidents went down. I believe this will be a perfect example
> of the 601's situation, light sport pilots and pilots transitioning to a
> lighter wing load, need to be trained to fly a very light wing loaded
> aircraft. They are currently focusing their ire on an aircraft that is
> now "overbuilt". If accidents continue to some extent, maybe they will
> finally focus on the needed items, pilot awareness, and good building
> practices. Only then will this very well designed, overbuilt aircraft
> find some peace.
If you keep wading in denial, the crodociles will get you.
By now, the only people denying ther'es a problem are pilots like you who
can't understand that it is indeed possible for an aircraft to have design
flaws.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
Hello Jay!
I think Juan is worried, as am I, that the upgrade did not address the airframe's
unique sensitivity during max gross weight, max aft CG loadings. I am lucky
enough to have been trained by a skilled 601XL pilot, someone who knows the
airplane like the back of their hand, someone who has the ability to impart that
knowledge onto their student in an effective way--many other pilots are not
so lucky.
As Octave Chanute used to warn, there have been just as many overbuilt bridge failures
as underbuilt bridge failures. Overbuilt is not necessarily good. Trained,
even over trained on this issue, might be a good thing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285077#285077
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
Sabrina wrote:
>
> Trained, even over trained on this issue, might be a good thing.
>
>
>
I just read an article in a recent EAA newsletter that may pertain to
this issue. The study found that the less you know about something, the
more you think you know. The article was relating to UL pilots who
would take just enough training to learn how to land and then stop
taking lessons because they felt they knew enough to fly on their own.
As a former UL pilot I saw this attitude more than once and also saw the
tragic results.
Knowledge and training are good things and not to be avoided.
Dan Wilde
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
SAbrina and all,
Don't missenterpret what I say, what I said was people need to get used to a lite
wing load plane, NOT "Juan's concern with the pitch sensitivity", , that
is dispositive of the issue. Any aircraft that has a cruise of 138 mph and a
manauvering speed of 103 mph needs to be treated and flown with a sense of complete
mental awareness. And trainig needs to be constant. Case and point, when
I brought up the manuavering speed a year ago, peoples' response was " manuavering
speed? whats that?" The plane is safe, if flown properly within specs,
and built correctly, that is what I said, and over time when the mods are
done, this statement will be less ignored and not as debated.
before you email me some opinion, read the MU-2 articles and the articles on
training equals safe pilot.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com>
>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 1:04 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up
>
>
>Hello Jay!
>
>I think Juan is worried, as am I, that the upgrade did not address the airframe's
unique sensitivity during max gross weight, max aft CG loadings. I am lucky
enough to have been trained by a skilled 601XL pilot, someone who knows the
airplane like the back of their hand, someone who has the ability to impart that
knowledge onto their student in an effective way--many other pilots are not
so lucky.
>
>As Octave Chanute used to warn, there have been just as many overbuilt bridge
failures as underbuilt bridge failures. Overbuilt is not necessarily good. Trained,
even over trained on this issue, might be a good thing.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285077#285077
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
Tron Boy, show me on the tests conducted where the flaw is on the aircraft.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 11:14 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up
>
>
>On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 11:01:01AM -0500, Juan Vega wrote:
>> There is a great article on the taining with regard to the MU -2
>> accidents years back. every one looked at the plane, yet when training
>> went up, accidents went down. I believe this will be a perfect example
>> of the 601's situation, light sport pilots and pilots transitioning to a
>> lighter wing load, need to be trained to fly a very light wing loaded
>> aircraft. They are currently focusing their ire on an aircraft that is
>> now "overbuilt". If accidents continue to some extent, maybe they will
>> finally focus on the needed items, pilot awareness, and good building
>> practices. Only then will this very well designed, overbuilt aircraft
>> find some peace.
>
>If you keep wading in denial, the crodociles will get you.
>
>By now, the only people denying ther'es a problem are pilots like you who
>can't understand that it is indeed possible for an aircraft to have design
>flaws.
>--
>Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
>http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
>Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
>AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 02:56:16PM -0500, Juan Vega wrote:
> Tron Boy, show me on the tests conducted where the flaw is on the aircraft.
The FAA cited structural strength deficiencies when it issued its grounding
order.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 10:04:24AM -0800, Sabrina wrote:
> I think Juan is worried, as am I, that the upgrade did not address the
> airframe's unique sensitivity during max gross weight, max aft CG
> loadings.
Juan's been denying there's a problem with the airframe from the very
beginning. He hasn't changed his tune at all.
> I am lucky enough to have been trained by a skilled 601XL pilot, someone
> who knows the airplane like the back of their hand, someone who has the
> ability to impart that knowledge onto their student in an effective
> way--many other pilots are not so lucky.
Thank you, Sabrina. I do appreciate that.
I certainly won't disagree that training on the Zodiac's peculiarities is a
good thing. Any pilot transitioning to a new type should get a complete,
thorough checkout from an instructor familiar with the type. That's just
good safe flying, be it a Zodiac, another LSA, or another airplane entirely.
I just don't think that the problems are completely addressed by calling
them lack of training. If it were, then either Zodiac pilots are getting
less training than pilots of other LSAs, or else the training is less
effective - and both are less likely than there being a problem with the
aircraft design itself.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
"Tron Boy" now that's funny...
Jay, there are a number of people who don't think there is anything wrong
with the plane, if it's flown properly, including Chris Heintz.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up
>
> Tron Boy, show me on the tests conducted where the flaw is on the
> aircraft.
>
> Juan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
>>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 11:14 AM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign,
>>follow-up
>>
>>
>>On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 11:01:01AM -0500, Juan Vega wrote:
>>> There is a great article on the taining with regard to the MU -2
>>> accidents years back. every one looked at the plane, yet when training
>>> went up, accidents went down. I believe this will be a perfect example
>>> of the 601's situation, light sport pilots and pilots transitioning to
>>> a
>>> lighter wing load, need to be trained to fly a very light wing loaded
>>> aircraft. They are currently focusing their ire on an aircraft that is
>>> now "overbuilt". If accidents continue to some extent, maybe they will
>>> finally focus on the needed items, pilot awareness, and good building
>>> practices. Only then will this very well designed, overbuilt aircraft
>>> find some peace.
>>
>>If you keep wading in denial, the crodociles will get you.
>>
>>By now, the only people denying ther'es a problem are pilots like you who
>>can't understand that it is indeed possible for an aircraft to have design
>>flaws.
>>--
>>Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
>>http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
>>Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
>>AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
Hi Randy,
What you say is true. It is also true that a number of people believe there is
a design flaw. That includes minor players like Jay and myself, the NTSB, and
the FAA. Alas, this is not a question where the majority rules.
I think this kind of problem is very difficult to understand. It is a latent flaw
that doesn't show up except under very unusual circumstances. The airframe
passes static and ground vibration tests, but still the wings come off in flight.
While some of the failures are easy to explain away (like the one where
the newly minted Sport Pilot decided to take off in hard IMC), I find it impossible
to believe there is no weakness that causes this to be the only LSA - indeed
the only light plane of any type - where the structure fails so often.
It is even worse because nobody can point their finger at the exact flaw. There
have been several full NTSB investigations and yet no smoking gun was found.
The only consistency in the failures is they all seem to fail at the same general
place - the place where the wings and fuselage come together.
The upgrade beefs up this area of the design along with doing the things the NTSB
asked for a year ago. I am truly optimistic, but not convinced, that once
the planes are upgraded the failures will go away. If so I will enjoy my Zodiac
as much as possible. If not, I will scrap it. My life and especially the
lives of my passengers deserve more than a plane with a fatal design flaw.
Paul
XL awaiting upgrade kit.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up
"Tron Boy" now that's funny...
Jay, there are a number of people who don't think there is anything wrong
with the plane, if it's flown properly, including Chris Heintz.
Randy
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
funny how y'all are stil skirting the manauvering speed issue. So focused on protecting
the flaw issue, I keep saying manauvering speed, everyone says, Huh?
too funny.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 2:54 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up
>
>
>SAbrina and all,
>Don't missenterpret what I say, what I said was people need to get used to a
lite wing load plane, NOT "Juan's concern with the pitch sensitivity", , that
is dispositive of the issue. Any aircraft that has a cruise of 138 mph and a
manauvering speed of 103 mph needs to be treated and flown with a sense of complete
mental awareness. And trainig needs to be constant. Case and point,
when I brought up the manuavering speed a year ago, peoples' response was " manuavering
speed? whats that?" The plane is safe, if flown properly within
specs, and built correctly, that is what I said, and over time when the mods
are done, this statement will be less ignored and not as debated.
>before you email me some opinion, read the MU-2 articles and the articles on
training equals safe pilot.
>Juan
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com>
>>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 1:04 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up
>>
>>
>>Hello Jay!
>>
>>I think Juan is worried, as am I, that the upgrade did not address the airframe's
unique sensitivity during max gross weight, max aft CG loadings. I am lucky
enough to have been trained by a skilled 601XL pilot, someone who knows the
airplane like the back of their hand, someone who has the ability to impart
that knowledge onto their student in an effective way--many other pilots are not
so lucky.
>>
>>As Octave Chanute used to warn, there have been just as many overbuilt bridge
failures as underbuilt bridge failures. Overbuilt is not necessarily good.
Trained, even over trained on this issue, might be a good thing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285077#285077
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
SAbrina, by the way, any aircraft that is at gross Max weight and aft CG, will
have a pitch sensitivity issue. There are some good case studies to review in
AOPA's archives. Its just in the nature of every aircraft, even jets. MOre
so in fighter aircraft, they are specifically made tail heavy, as they can pitch
in a turn at the drop of a hat.
Zenith's issue I think with confidence, is that the folks flying it take it for
granted, its just that easy a plane to fly. The plane needs to be slowed down
to manauvering speed when in turbulance, and not flown over 103 mph when its
rough out. if fully loaded, with full fuel, flying at 120 mph below the cloud
line, the plane will make you pay in the form of not only a rough ride but
possibly a dry cleaning bill.
Your good at math and research, check the numbers.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 3:48 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up
>
>
>On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 10:04:24AM -0800, Sabrina wrote:
>> I think Juan is worried, as am I, that the upgrade did not address the
>> airframe's unique sensitivity during max gross weight, max aft CG
>> loadings.
>
>Juan's been denying there's a problem with the airframe from the very
>beginning. He hasn't changed his tune at all.
>
>> I am lucky enough to have been trained by a skilled 601XL pilot, someone
>> who knows the airplane like the back of their hand, someone who has the
>> ability to impart that knowledge onto their student in an effective
>> way--many other pilots are not so lucky.
>
>Thank you, Sabrina. I do appreciate that.
>
>I certainly won't disagree that training on the Zodiac's peculiarities is a
>good thing. Any pilot transitioning to a new type should get a complete,
>thorough checkout from an instructor familiar with the type. That's just
>good safe flying, be it a Zodiac, another LSA, or another airplane entirely.
>
>I just don't think that the problems are completely addressed by calling
>them lack of training. If it were, then either Zodiac pilots are getting
>less training than pilots of other LSAs, or else the training is less
>effective - and both are less likely than there being a problem with the
>aircraft design itself.
>--
>Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
>http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
>Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
>AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
Ya Know... I just have to chime in.
The Yuba City crash has extensive radar return data that clearly shows t
hat plane going at or very close to the "MANAUVERING" speed... Tell us o
h kind sir..... What broke that 601 XL apart. ????????
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follo
w-up
funny how y'all are stil skirting the manauvering speed issue. So focus
ed on protecting the flaw issue, I keep saying manauvering speed, every
one says, Huh?
too funny.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 2:54 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, foll
ow-up
>
>
>
>SAbrina and all,
>Don't missenterpret what I say, what I said was people need to get use
d to a lite wing load plane, NOT "Juan's concern with the pitch sensiti
vity", , that is dispositive of the issue. Any aircraft that has a crui
se of 138 mph and a manauvering speed of 103 mph needs to be treated and
flown with a sense of complete mental awareness. And trainig needs to
be constant. Case and point, when I brought up the manuavering speed a
year ago, peoples' response was " manuavering speed? whats that?" Th
e plane is safe, if flown properly within specs, and built correctly, t
hat is what I said, and over time when the mods are done, this stateme
nt will be less ignored and not as debated.
>before you email me some opinion, read the MU-2 articles and the arti
cles on training equals safe pilot.
>Juan
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com>
>>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 1:04 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-
up
>>
>>
>>Hello Jay!
>>
>>I think Juan is worried, as am I, that the upgrade did not address the
airframe's unique sensitivity during max gross weight, max aft CG loadi
ngs. I am lucky enough to have been trained by a skilled 601XL pilot, s
omeone who knows the airplane like the back of their hand, someone who h
as the ability to impart that knowledge onto their student in an effecti
ve way--many other pilots are not so lucky.
>>
>>As Octave Chanute used to warn, there have been just as many overbuilt
bridge failures as underbuilt bridge failures. Overbuilt is not necess
arily good. Trained, even over trained on this issue, might be a good t
hing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285077#285077
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
Hi Juan,
What you are saying is absolutely true. Unfortunately, it is true for every airplane
design and not specific to the Zodiac XL.
Before you can convince me that there is no design problem in the XL you need to
explain the unusually high failure rate of the XLs.
It is easy to make excuses like poor pilot training, poor maintenance, poor quality
in the construction (although you need to explain the wide differences in
factory and home built planes that have failed) or a lot of other possible problems
like failure to reduce to Va in turbulence. In the end, these just muddy
the basic question of why it is only Zodiac XLs that suffer from these problems.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan Vega
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up
funny how y'all are stil skirting the manauvering speed issue. So focused on protecting
the flaw issue, I keep saying manauvering speed, everyone says, Huh?
too funny.
Juan
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
As for the 601XL maneuvering speed issue:
Yes some pilots may not be so aware of it.
But if that were a significant part of the breakup issue, as with
other things, one would think other planes might have problems too.
Any slow landing but slightly slippery plane -- like many of the
European LSA designs -- might have the maneuvering speed issue.
If max G is 4, the any plane able to fly more than twice its stall
speed (flaps up) will be able to fly past maneuvering speed.
(2.1 times for a 4.5 g airplane).
(All this is at gross, with the maneuvering speed reducing if under gross.)
Just pointing out a sometimes forgotten aspect of maneuvering speed.
One also does wonder to what degree the stick forces really are any
lighter than for other light planes. And whether the XL tends to
operate closer to the aft end of the CG envelope than other aircraft,
increasing how common it is to have light stick forces. But that's
just musing from someone who doesn't know the aircraft well.
It's all part of the idea that the XL does have some caveats for
flying it where an unaware pilot could break it, yet one wonders why
it hasn't happened to other light planes that might have similar
characteristics.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
Hello Juan,
Sorry I missed you in Miami. As far as the math goes, the 50% thicker Piper spar
doublers make a lot more sense than changing out a portion of the top spar
cap.
Have you got your bird back in the air yet? How about the one the kids built?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285157#285157
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
Has enyone correlated the installed engines in the 601 HD and HDS versus the
engines in the XL? I get the feeling that XLs generally are higher powered.
Could that be a factor in the crashes?
Dave Austin
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up |
Also lets not forget Weather...- Learning how to read,-understand and a
void bad weather is as important (at least in mountain areas like ours) as
learning how to fly.
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
-
--- On Sat, 2/6/10, Dan Wilde <dwilde@clearwire.net> wrote:
From: Dan Wilde <dwilde@clearwire.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-u
p
Sabrina wrote:
>- - Trained, even over trained on this issue, might be a good thing.
>
>
>
>
>---
I just read an article in a recent EAA newsletter that may pertain to this
issue.- The study found that the less you know about something, the more
you think you know.- The article was relating to UL pilots who would take
just enough training to learn how to land and then stop taking lessons bec
ause they felt they knew enough to fly on their own.- As a former UL pilo
t I saw this attitude more than once and also saw the tragic results.
Knowledge and training are good things and not to be avoided.
Dan Wilde
le, List Admin.
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