---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/07/10: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:19 AM - Chat reminder for "Digesters" (George Race) 2. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Larry McFarland) 3. 08:08 AM - ICOM IC-A210 For sale (ga23) 4. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Juan Vega) 5. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Juan Vega) 6. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (n801bh@netzero.com) 7. 05:05 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (purplemoon99@bellsouth.net) 8. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up (Juan Vega) 9. 06:01 PM - Aileron Stops (Peter W Johnson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:29 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Chat reminder for "Digesters" Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT www.mykitairplane.com Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page. George ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:54 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up Dave, Most of the XL engines are Rotax, Corvair and 0-200s, which is not different from the ones used in HD series. They fly a bit faster with the thin wing, but that's about it. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Dave Austin wrote: > > Has enyone correlated the installed engines in the 601 HD and HDS > versus the engines in the XL? I get the feeling that XLs generally > are higher powered. > Could that be a factor in the crashes? > Dave Austin > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:05 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: ICOM IC-A210 For sale From: "ga23" I have a brand new in box IC-A210 transceiver for sell. I bought it for my CH 701 but then I decided to go with the XCOM because it can be operated directly from my MGL Odyssey glass pannel. $890.00 delivered anywhre in the US. Payment via Paypal. (Current AS price is $1,339.00) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285215#285215 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:13 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up to your last two quewstions, nope and nope -----Original Message----- >From: Sabrina >Sent: Feb 6, 2010 9:55 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up > > >Hello Juan, > >Sorry I missed you in Miami. As far as the math goes, the 50% thicker Piper spar doublers make a lot more sense than changing out a portion of the top spar cap. > >Have you got your bird back in the air yet? How about the one the kids built? > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285157#285157 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:57 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up if yu read the wind conditions at the time of the crash, the plane was on the leward side of the mountain with gusts up to30 +knots. sincerley Oh kind sir, Jr. -----Original Message----- >From: "n801bh@netzero.com" >Sent: Feb 6, 2010 7:41 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up > >Ya Know... I just have to chime in. >The Yuba City crash has extensive radar return data that clearly shows that plane going at or very close to the "MANAUVERING" speed... Tell us oh kind sir..... What broke that 601 XL apart. ???????? > > >Ben Haas >N801BH >www.haaspowerair.com > >---------- Original Message ---------- >From: Juan Vega >To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up >Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:25:41 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > > >funny how y'all are stil skirting the manauvering speed issue. So focused on protecting the flaw issue, I keep saying manauvering speed, everyone says, Huh? >too funny. > >Juan > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Juan Vega >>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 2:54 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up >> >> >>SAbrina and all, >>Don't missenterpret what I say, what I said was people need to get used to a lite wing load plane, NOT "Juan's concern with the pitch sensitivity", , that is dispositive of the issue. Any aircraft that has a cruise of 138 mph and a manauvering speed of 103 mph needs to be treated and flown with a sense of complete mental awareness. And trainig needs to be constant. Case and point, when I brought up the manuavering speed a year ago, peoples' response was " manuavering speed? whats that?" The plane is safe, if flown properly within specs, and built correctly, that is what I said, and over time when the mods are done, this statement will be less ignored and not as debated. >>before you email me some opinion, read the MU-2 articles and the articles on training equals safe pilot. >>Juan >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Sabrina >>>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 1:04 PM >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up >>> >>> >>>Hello Jay! >>> >>>I think Juan is worried, as am I, that the upgrade did not address the airframe's unique sensitivity during max gross weight, max aft CG loadings. I am lucky enough to have been trained by a skilled 601XL pilot, someone who knows the airplane like the back of their hand, someone who has the ability to impart that knowledge onto their student in an effective way--many other pilots are not so lucky. >>> >>>As Octave Chanute used to warn, there have been just as many overbuilt bridge failures as underbuilt bridge failures. Overbuilt is not necessarily good. Trained, even over trained on this issue, might be a good thing. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Read this topic online here: >>> >>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285077#285077 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >=================================== >=================================== >=================================== >=================================== > >____________________________________________________________ >Weight Loss Program >Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! >http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=VQs5ffjnAJpQoBQpqSB1qAAAJ1HwQ8b1VOas4hI8eG3vvLZKAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:51 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up Yeah,, That's why a good pilot slows down to manauvering speed, The plan e 'should' stall before the airframe breaks.. But the radar data showed a climb.. Hmmm,, maybe that's the way planes stall in california, they g o up. . my last comment on this. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follo w-up if yu read the wind conditions at the time of the crash, the plane was o n the leward side of the mountain with gusts up to30 +knots. sincerley Oh kind sir, Jr. -----Original Message----- >From: "n801bh@netzero.com" >Sent: Feb 6, 2010 7:41 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, foll ow-up > >Ya Know... I just have to chime in. >The Yuba City crash has extensive radar return data that clearly shows that plane going at or very close to the "MANAUVERING" speed... Tell us oh kind sir..... What broke that 601 XL apart. ???????? > > >Ben Haas >N801BH >www.haaspowerair.com > >---------- Original Message ---------- >From: Juan Vega >To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith -list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, foll ow-up >Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:25:41 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > > > >funny how y'all are stil skirting the manauvering speed issue. So focu sed on protecting the flaw issue, I keep saying manauvering speed, ever yone says, Huh? >too funny. > >Juan > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Juan Vega >>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 2:54 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, fol low-up >> t> >> >>SAbrina and all, >>Don't missenterpret what I say, what I said was people need to get us ed to a lite wing load plane, NOT "Juan's concern with the pitch sensit ivity", , that is dispositive of the issue. Any aircraft that has a cru ise of 138 mph and a manauvering speed of 103 mph needs to be treated an d flown with a sense of complete mental awareness. And trainig needs to be constant. Case and point, when I brought up the manuavering speed a year ago, peoples' response was " manuavering speed? whats that?" T he plane is safe, if flown properly within specs, and built correctly, that is what I said, and over time when the mods are done, this statem ent will be less ignored and not as debated. >>before you email me some opinion, read the MU-2 articles and the art icles on training equals safe pilot. >>Juan >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Sabrina >>>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 1:04 PM >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow -up >>> >>> >>>Hello Jay! >>> >>>I think Juan is worried, as am I, that the upgrade did not address th e airframe's unique sensitivity during max gross weight, max aft CG load ings. I am lucky enough to have been trained by a skilled 601XL pilot, someone who knows the airplane like the back of their hand, someone who has the ability to impart that knowledge onto their student in an effect ive way--many other pilots are not so lucky. >>> >>>As Octave Chanute used to warn, there have been just as many overbuil t bridge failures as underbuilt bridge failures. Overbuilt is not neces sarily good. Trained, even over trained on this issue, might be a good thing. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Read this topic online here: >>> >>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285077#285077 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >======================== =========== >======================== =========== >======================== =========== >======================== =========== > >____________________________________________________________ >Weight Loss Program >Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! >http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=VQs5ffjnAJpQoBQpqSB1 qAAAJ1HwQ8b1VOas4hI8eG3vvLZKAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAE UgAAAAA ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ____________________________________________________________ Nutrition Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=MD_YlhzbPttAozhNHLgzu wAAJ1HwQ8b1VOas4hI8eG3vvLZKAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQ wAAAAA ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:43 PM PST US From: "purplemoon99@bellsouth.net" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up -Ben ,I'am with you ben same ole shit from the same old shit heads, day i n and day -out the exact reason that all you ever see is- Kobe,KOBE- ON THIS LIST ANY MORE, AT LEAST THEY HAVE SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO TALK AB OUT INSTEAD OF THE SAME OLD 5 YEAR- Old- crap- -Joe N101HD=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "n801bh@netzero.com" =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, February 7, 2010 5:32:43 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing camp aign, follow-up=0A=0A=0AYeah,, That's why-a good pilot-slows down to ma nauvering speed, The plane 'should' stall before the airframe breaks.. But the radar data showed a climb.. Hmmm,, maybe that's the way planes stall in california, they go up. .=0Amy last comment on this.=0Ado not archive =0A=0A=0ABen Haas=0AN801BH=0Awww.haaspowerair.com=0A=0A---------- Original Message ----------=0AFrom: Juan Vega =0ATo: zeni th-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List : Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up=0ADate: Sun, 7 Feb 201 ega =0A=0Aif yu read the wind conditions at the time of the crash, the plane was on the leward side of the mountain with gu sts up to30 +knots. -=0Asincerley =0AOh kind sir, Jr.=0A=0A=0A-----Origin al Message-----=0A>From: "n801bh@netzero.com" =0A>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 7:41 PM=0A>To: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Zenit h-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up=0A>=0A>Ya Know.. .. I just have to chime in.=0A>The Yuba City crash has extensive radar retur n data that clearly shows that plane going at or very close to the "MANAUVE RING" speed... Tell us oh kind sir..... What broke that 601 XL apart. ????? ???=0A>=0A>=0A>Ben Haas=0A>N801BH=0A>www.haaspowerair.com=0A>=0A>---------- Original Message ----------=0A>From: Juan Vega =0A>To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com, ---- ---zenith-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recomme nded Letter-writing campaign, follow-up=0A>Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:25:41 - ga2005@earthlink.net>=0A>=0A>funny how y'all are stil skirting the manauver ing speed issue. -So focused on protecting the flaw issue, -I keep sayi ng manauvering speed, everyone says, -Huh?=0A>too funny.=0A>=0A>Juan=0A> =0A>=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>>From: Juan Vega =0A>>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 2:54 PM=0A>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com, ze nith-list@matronics.com=0A>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Lette uan Vega =0A>>=0A>>SAbrina and all,=0A>>Don't mi ssenterpret what I say, -what I said was people need to get used to a lit e wing load plane, -NOT "Juan's concern with the pitch sensitivity", , th at is dispositive of the issue. -Any aircraft that has a cruise of 138 mp h and a manauvering speed of 103 mph needs to be treated and flown with a s ense of complete mental awareness. -And trainig needs to be constant. - Case and point, -when I brought up the manuavering speed a year ago, -p eoples' response was " manuavering speed? whats that?" --The plane is s afe, -if flown properly within specs, and built correctly, that is what I said, and over time -when the mods are done, -this statement will be l ess ignored and not as debated.=0A>>before you email me some -opinion, -read the MU-2 articles and the articles on training equals safe pilot. =0A>>Juan=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>-----Original Message-----=0A>>>From: Sab rina =0A>>>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 1:04 PM=0A>>>To: zenith -list@matronics.com=0A>>>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writi na" =0A>>>=0A>>>Hello Jay!=0A>>>=0A>>>I think Juan i s worried, as am I, that the upgrade did not address the airframe's unique sensitivity during max gross weight, max aft CG loadings. -I am lucky eno ugh to have been trained by a skilled 601XL pilot, someone who knows the ai rplane like the back of their hand, someone who has the ability to impart t hat knowledge onto their student in an effective way--many other pilots are not so lucky. -=0A>>>=0A>>>As Octave Chanute used to warn, there have be en just as many overbuilt bridge failures as underbuilt bridge failures. -Overbuilt is not necessarily good. -Trained, even over trained on this issue, might be a good thing.=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Read this topic online here:=0A>>>=0A>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2850 77#285077=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>============== =======================0A>= ===========0A>============= ========================0A> ============0A>=0A>__________________________________ __________________________=0A>Weight Loss Program=0A>Best Weight Loss Progr am - Click Here!=0A>http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=VQs5 ffjnAJpQoBQpqSB1qAAAJ1HwQ8b1VOas4hI8eG3vvLZKAAYAAAAAAAA====== =================-= ----> http://ww w.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List=0A=0A________________________________ ____________________________ =0ANutrition=0AImprove your career health. Cli =========================0A == ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:18 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up my emailing and beer drinkin judt dont mix. Who Dat! Juan, -----Original Message----- >From: Juan Vega >Sent: Feb 7, 2010 1:36 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up > > >if yu read the wind conditions at the time of the crash, the plane was on the leward side of the mountain with gusts up to30 +knots. >sincerley > Oh kind sir, Jr. > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: "n801bh@netzero.com" >>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 7:41 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up >> >>Ya Know... I just have to chime in. >>The Yuba City crash has extensive radar return data that clearly shows that plane going at or very close to the "MANAUVERING" speed... Tell us oh kind sir..... What broke that 601 XL apart. ???????? >> >> >>Ben Haas >>N801BH >>www.haaspowerair.com >> >>---------- Original Message ---------- >>From: Juan Vega >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up >>Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:25:41 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >> >> >>funny how y'all are stil skirting the manauvering speed issue. So focused on protecting the flaw issue, I keep saying manauvering speed, everyone says, Huh? >>too funny. >> >>Juan >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Juan Vega >>>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 2:54 PM >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up >>> >>> >>>SAbrina and all, >>>Don't missenterpret what I say, what I said was people need to get used to a lite wing load plane, NOT "Juan's concern with the pitch sensitivity", , that is dispositive of the issue. Any aircraft that has a cruise of 138 mph and a manauvering speed of 103 mph needs to be treated and flown with a sense of complete mental awareness. And trainig needs to be constant. Case and point, when I brought up the manuavering speed a year ago, peoples' response was " manuavering speed? whats that?" The plane is safe, if flown properly within specs, and built correctly, that is what I said, and over time when the mods are done, this statement will be less ignored and not as debated. >>>before you email me some opinion, read the MU-2 articles and the articles on training equals safe pilot. >>>Juan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Sabrina >>>>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 1:04 PM >>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recommended Letter-writing campaign, follow-up >>>> >>>> >>>>Hello Jay! >>>> >>>>I think Juan is worried, as am I, that the upgrade did not address the airframe's unique sensitivity during max gross weight, max aft CG loadings. I am lucky enough to have been trained by a skilled 601XL pilot, someone who knows the airplane like the back of their hand, someone who has the ability to impart that knowledge onto their student in an effective way--many other pilots are not so lucky. >>>> >>>>As Octave Chanute used to warn, there have been just as many overbuilt bridge failures as underbuilt bridge failures. Overbuilt is not necessarily good. Trained, even over trained on this issue, might be a good thing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285077#285077 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>=================================== >>=================================== >>=================================== >>=================================== >> >>____________________________________________________________ >>Weight Loss Program >>Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! >>http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=VQs5ffjnAJpQoBQpqSB1qAAAJ1HwQ8b1VOas4hI8eG3vvLZKAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:59 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Stops Hi Guys, I have just about finished installing the upgrade mods and I am just about to do the aileron stops. I have stops on the wing at the aileron control arm. Why do I need them in the fuse as well? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://zodiac.cpc-world.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.