---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/08/10: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:39 AM - Re: Aileron Stops (DaveG601XL) 2. 08:58 AM - Sad News (Bill Pagan) 3. 12:50 PM - rivet sets (Jim Belcher) 4. 01:27 PM - Re: rivet sets (Bill Pagan) 5. 02:28 PM - Re: rivet sets (DaveG601XL) 6. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Stops (Tony Graziano) 7. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Stops (Peter W Johnson) 8. 03:21 PM - Re: [Probable Spam] Sad News (Larry McFarland) 9. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Stops (passpat@aol.com) 10. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Stops (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 11. 09:55 PM - OLD CFI's thoughts (EMAproducts@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:30 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Stops From: "DaveG601XL" Peter, I believe the thinking here is to have a stop in the system prior to the loads being transmitted into the wings. For example, if climbing into the airplane, a passenger leaned on the stick quite hard, the loads would be taken by the new stop. This way, there would be no deformation of either the cable or wing structure which could cause cable slack. That's my impression. Good luck with the mods. I am about 2/3rd's done myself. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 116.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285369#285369 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:57 AM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Zenith-List: Sad News Just learned the sad news that Morry Hummel passed on February-4.-=0A -Bill Pagan =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:48 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Zenith-List: rivet sets All was going semi-well with the mod kit, until I went to set the AD5 (and AD6) rivets. It seems I've never had a reason to set this size rivet, and don't have a matching rivet set. Unless I'm missing something, ATS, Aircraft Spruce, and the others where I usually buy tools don't seem to have sets this big for rivet guns. Has anyone found these? If so, where? TIA. -- ======================================= Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager 601XL Builder ======================================= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:59 PM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rivet sets hi Jim,=0A=0AOrdered mine from ATS - Part #120.- Was $29.95 for-a flush and 4 universal sets=0A-Bill Pagan =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________ ________________=0AFrom: Jim Belcher =0ATo: zenit h601-list@matronics.com; zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, February 8, 2010 3:47:06 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: rivet sets=0A=0A--> Zenith-List me ssage posted by: Jim Belcher =0A=0AAll was going semi-well with the mod kit, until I went to set the AD5 (and =0AAD6) rivets . It seems I've never had a reason to set this size rivet, and =0Adon't hav e a matching rivet set. =0A=0AUnless I'm missing something, ATS, Aircraft S pruce, and the others where I =0Ausually buy tools don't seem to have sets this big for rivet guns. Has anyone =0Afound these? If so, where?=0A=0ATIA. =0A-- =0A====================== ===================0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jim B. Belcher =0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - BS,MS Physics=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - A&P/IA=0A- - - - - - - - - - - General Radio Telephone Certificate=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Instrument Rated Pilot=0A- - - - - - - - - - Retired Aerospace Technical Manager=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 601XL B uilder=0A====================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, L =========0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: rivet sets From: "DaveG601XL" Jim, Aircraft Spruce has them here: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/topcanrivetsets.php -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 116.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285469#285469 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:35 PM PST US From: Tony Graziano Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Stops I have dual sticks. The dual stick config is such that I hit the physical limit of max aileron input at the same time the ailerons hit their stops. Tony Graziano XL/Jab. 550+ hrs Sent from my iPhone On Feb 8, 2010, at 10:38 AM, "DaveG601XL" wrote: Peter, I believe the thinking here is to have a stop in the system prior to the loads being transmitted into the wings. For example, if climbing into the airplane, a passenger leaned on the stick quite hard, the loads would be taken by the new stop. This way, there would be no deformation of either the cable or wing structure which could cause cable slack. That's my impression. Good luck with the mods. I am about 2/3rd's done myself. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 116.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285369#285369 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:48 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Stops Thanks Guys, I still have my control rod mods in place so I'll have a word with my AP (your DAR) to see if they are still required. Thanks Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://zodiac.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaveG601XL Sent: Tuesday, 9 February 2010 3:39 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Stops Peter, I believe the thinking here is to have a stop in the system prior to the loads being transmitted into the wings. For example, if climbing into the airplane, a passenger leaned on the stick quite hard, the loads would be taken by the new stop. This way, there would be no deformation of either the cable or wing structure which could cause cable slack. That's my impression. Good luck with the mods. I am about 2/3rd's done myself. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 116.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285369#285369 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:41 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: [Probable Spam] Zenith-List: Sad News Spoke with him at Oshkosh last year. He was a very pleasant person. Loved his plane! Really keen construction. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Bill Pagan wrote: > > > Just learned the sad news that Morry Hummel passed on February 4. > > Bill Pagan > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Stops From: passpat@aol.com All you folks might check the total travel of your ailerons to see if its within the limits of the drawings and adjust the stops accordingly. Pat -----Original Message----- From: Tony Graziano Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 5:55 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Stops I have dual sticks. The dual stick config is such that I hit the physical limit f max aileron input at the same time the ailerons hit their stops. Tony Graziano L/Jab. 550+ hrs Sent from my iPhone On Feb 8, 2010, at 10:38 AM, "DaveG601XL" wrote : Peter, I believe the thinking here is to have a stop in the system prior to the loads eing transmitted into the wings. For example, if climbing into the airpla ne, a assenger leaned on the stick quite hard, the loads would be taken by the new top. This way, there would be no deformation of either the cable or wing tructure which could cause cable slack. That's my impression. Good luck with the mods. I am about 2/3rd's done myself. -------- avid Gallagher 01 XL/Jabiru 3300 irst flight 7/24/08 16.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade) ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285369#285369 ======================== =========== -= - The Zenith-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:59 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Stops I would be willing to bet most planes have more than 11.5 degrees of deflection if you are hitting the stops. Jeff In a message dated 2/8/2010 6:03:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Tonyplane@bellsouth.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tony Graziano I have dual sticks. The dual stick config is such that I hit the physical limit of max aileron input at the same time the ailerons hit their stops. Tony Graziano XL/Jab. 550+ hrs Sent from my iPhone On Feb 8, 2010, at 10:38 AM, "DaveG601XL" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" Peter, I believe the thinking here is to have a stop in the system prior to the loads being transmitted into the wings. For example, if climbing into the airplane, a passenger leaned on the stick quite hard, the loads would be taken by the new stop. This way, there would be no deformation of either the cable or wing structure which could cause cable slack. That's my impression. Good luck with the mods. I am about 2/3rd's done myself. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 116.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285369#285369 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:21 PM PST US From: EMAproducts@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: OLD CFI's thoughts re Zenith problems As a CFI for 48 years, I've flown over 140 makes and models of aircraft for over 25,000 hours. That really doesn't mean anything except ~ Evidently I've done something right for a few thousand hours and was lucky several times. That being said, and my not having flown a Zenith, but many other homebuilts and LSA aircraft prior to their being LSA's. I have noticed a problem with many many pilots that have flown only one or two types of aircraft is they are extremely rough on the controls. I've noticed when asking them to slow down 5 kts, they raise the nose abruptly 10 degrees or so! Now with the very light control pressures, and the pressures not changing much to really load up the airplane I can see several of the pilots I've given Flight Reviews to doing what has evidently been done to the Zenith ~~ overstressing by having no "feel" for the aircraft. As many have said proper checkout and flying will eliminate many of the problems, if not all. Flying any aircraft within the parameters it was designed to be flown, aerobatics, buzz jobs, and rough handling of the controls is forgivable in some aircraft, but in some it may not be. When the control pressures don't change but a very small amount with the increasing "G" load it is easy to overload the aircraft. I'm not saying there are no problems with the aircraft, however studying the accidents of the homebuilt group of pilots there is an extreme number of useless accidents many which would not have happened had the person flown the aircraft within the limitations of the aircraft, and the FAR's FLY SMOOTH and Fly SAFE Elbie Mendenhall ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.