Today's Message Index:
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1. 10:13 AM - Re: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 (Warni (Scotsman)
2. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 (W (Rick Lindstrom)
3. 03:34 PM - Re: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 (W (dougsire)
4. 04:55 PM - Re: Re: ()
5. 08:07 PM - "You can't fight city hall" (aprazer)
6. 09:46 PM - Re: "You can't fight city hall" (purplemoon99@bellsouth.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 |
(Warni
I certainly hope so too. My upgrade kit has arrived in South Africa yesterday
(awaiting collection) and I believe that the modifications contained therein talk
to the issues raised by the various agencies. With cognisance of the various
recommendations I am comfortable to fly in a modified XL....though it would
be "nice" to have the FAA's blessing!
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288187#288187
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 |
(W
Hi, Paul...
You just said:
"Maybe if we don't discuss the fatal design flaws the problems will all go
away . . ."
I can't tell you how disappointed I am that you're still fanning the flames of
no confidence among the Zenith community, in spite of numerous public and private
discussions on this matter. I understand your sarcasm and weak attempt at
humor, but for those of us who just want the straight skinny without hyperbole,
your claim of "fatal design flaw" does nothing to advance the issue to the point
of intellectual resolution leading to renewed confidence in our airplanes.
What "flaw" are you referring to? Unless I'm completely brain dead, my recollection
is that, with all of the exhaustive testing and investigation performed to
date, no single "smoking gun" has been found with the 601XL design. What we
do know is that a variety of factors can add up in flight to cause airframe failures
in a very predictable way with very similar results.
Without a specific causal factor to address, Zenith has done the next best thing
and provided a comprehensive upgrade kit that provides a shotgun approach to
all the possible contributing factors to these failures, including steps to counteract
sloppy maintenance (slack aileron cables) and even poor pilot technique
(overstressing airframe by exceeding design limitations). And while we're
in the neighborhood, we get to beef up the main spar and the aileron system as
a hedge against them becoming a factor in the failure sequence.
A little late to the party, the FAA has weighed in with their assessment and recommendations
recently, well after all the sturm and drang. But this is the way
it should be with experimental aviation, where the freedoms are immense but
the ultimate responsibility for airworthiness of any E-AB airplane rests with
the individual builder. I really don't think we want the FAA taking drastic steps
to impose certified standards in an experimental world.
Chris Heintz has maintained all along that the 601XL design is safe if flown and
maintained properly. I think he's right. But the other side of the coin is that
the 601XL is definitely not overbuilt, as most certified aircraft are, and
is intolerant (in its original form) of airframe overstresses and a casual approach
to maintenance.
So I have to ask, Paul. What possible good comes from tossing out phrases like
"fatal design flaws" when no such thing has been found after all the investigation
by multiple parties?
Rick Lindstrom
ZenVair 601XL N42KP
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 |
(W
Wull gee Rick. The FAA report indicated that they "identified several significant
issues with the manufacturer's structural loads analysis." And (among other
things) that "the loads used by the manufacturer to design the wing structure
did not meet the ASTM standard for a 1,320 lb aircraft". Pretty easy to
describe those as design flaws.
And people died because the aircraft broke up. I think that's what fatal means.
Put them together and you have "fatal design flaws".
--------
Doug Sire 601XL
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288217#288217
Message 4
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Yeah=2C somebody should point out to him that our limit over here is 1320 p
ounds.
Paul R
From: LHusky@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:
Yea=2C I just got the same email. Writing the check now!!!! LOL!!!!
do not archive
In a message dated 2/24/2010 6:21:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time=2C bootless
@earthlink.net writes:
(sigh)
I guess the scammers who have hacked people's Facebook accounts have
moved to email lists for builders.
do not archive
Ben Ramler wrote:
>
> How are you=2CI hope all is well at home and work=2CI'm writing you this
with tears in my eyes=2Cas many of you have not responded to my last email
and i guess you don't seem to be of help after when i told you about my dif
ficulties here in United Kingdomi write to let you know i misplaced my wall
et on my way heading back to my hotel room from the Starbucks coffee shop.P
resently i have limited access to internet and would like you to assist me
with a loan of 1=2C540 Pounds to sort-out my hotel bills and to get myself
back home because my wallet consist of all my money=2Cphone=2Cdiary and my
boarding pass(Return Ticket).
>
> I have spoken to the embassy here but they are not responding to matters
effectively=2CI'll Refund the money back to you as soon as i'm back home=2C
I would have love you to call me but don't have a phone where i can be reac
hed.
> let me know if you can be of any help=2CI will appreciate whatever you ca
n afford to assist me with=2C do get back to me immediately as you receive
this email in order for me to let you know where to send the money.
>
>
> I know this email sounds strange but i did send it
>
> Thanks
> Ben
>
>
> =======================
= the ties Day ===================
==== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ========
=============== - List Contributio
n Web Site sp=3B ===========
==============
Message 5
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| Subject: | "You can't fight city hall" |
Ladies and Gents,
Reading everyone's comments about what should be done to put the XLs/650s on sound
footing and how it should be done -- shows great concern.
I think that you all will agree with me that the Heintzs have performed to the
utmost of their ability! It sounds like these tasks, litigation, etc., has strained
their financial position.
Now the FAA is asking for more blood?
There is an old adage that states "You can't fight city hall" -- the FAA being
city hall.
We need someone with lots of horsepower and expertise to advise and ramrod this
project.
He/she won't be cheap!
Also, I agree that in order to placate the FAA another airframe will have to be
destroyed in testing.
The successful outcome of this project will benefit us all because we'll have product
that can be flown, sold without a heavy financial loss and liability, plus
the Heintzs will remain in business to support us.
There are many 601/650 drivers that have offered, on this site as well as the Zenith
Aero, monetary support and willingness to act as gophers in getting this
problem resolved!
This is going to cost a lot of money!
I, for one, will throw my hat in the ring to volunteer as a gopher (if needed)
and will support the cause financially.
Mack Kreizenbeck
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288254#288254
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: "You can't fight city hall" |
I'am in,Ill help.JoeN101HD601XL=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________________
___=0AFrom: aprazer <aprazer@cableone.net>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Thu, February 25, 2010 11:06:15 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: "You ca
azer@cableone.net>=0A=0ALadies and Gents,=0AReading everyone's comments abo
ut what should be done to put the XLs/650s on sound footing and how it shou
ld be done -- shows great concern.=0AI think that you all will agree with m
e that the Heintzs have performed to the utmost of their ability! It sounds
like these tasks, litigation, etc., has strained their financial position.
=0ANow the FAA is asking for more blood?=0AThere is an old adage that state
s "You can't fight city hall" -- the FAA being city hall.=0AWe need someone
with lots of horsepower and expertise to advise and ramrod this project.
=0AHe/she won't be cheap!=0AAlso, I agree that in order to placate the FAA
another airframe will have to be destroyed in testing.=0AThe successful out
come of this project will benefit us all because we'll have product that ca
n be flown, sold without a heavy financial loss and liability, plus the Hei
ntzs will remain in business to support us.=0AThere are many 601/650 driver
s that have offered, on this site as well as the Zenith Aero, monetary supp
ort and willingness to act as gophers in getting this problem resolved!=0AT
his is going to cost a lot of money!=0AI, for one, will throw my hat in the
ring to volunteer as a gopher (if needed) and will support the cause finan
cially.=0AMack Kreizenbeck=0A=0A--------=0AThe poh-oh-unemployed farm boy f
rom Idaho=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.mat
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