Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:55 AM - Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin (John Livsey)
2. 02:25 AM - Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin (Godo Barrenechea)
3. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin (Bill Naumuk)
4. 07:25 AM - Re: [Probable Spam] 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin (Larry McFarland)
5. 07:57 AM - Re: Fuel-safe "grease" for Viton O-rings (John Goodings)
6. 08:01 AM - Re: [Probable Spam] 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin (Carlos Sa)
7. 08:06 AM - Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin (R. Johnson)
8. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: Fuel-safe "grease" for Viton O-rings (FLYaDIVE)
9. 03:15 PM - Re: Re: Fuel-safe "grease" for Viton O-rings (Craig Payne)
10. 06:32 PM - Re: [Probable Spam] 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin (Ron Lendon)
11. 06:44 PM - Re: Re: [Probable Spam] 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin (Carlos Sa)
12. 11:14 PM - I'm Back (Richard Vetterli)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin |
Hi Carlos,
I had trouble figuring out the question but looking at the plans I finally realised
what your problem is. From memory (My CH601HDS has been flying 5 years)
the longerons arn't straight (Well mine arn't) they actually have a slight bend
at 6F2-1. Again from memory when I built the tail section I came up against
the same problem you have but just pulled the longerons into the right position.
Other builders may disagree with this however, will be interested to see if
you get other replies.
I could try and get a picture of mine if you are interested.
Regards John.
--------
CH601-HDS Flying
See my website at http://zodiac.homelinux.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293022#293022
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin |
Carlos,
My experience was the same and I had the same doubts...
Of course-Larry holds a masters degree in workmanship, that I wish I
had, so instead I just fit the longerons with some tension, and it
turned fine.
Once done, feeling the strenght of the box, I must confess I thought
it was meant to be a design feature to strengthen the bottom section
of the fuselage...
Cheers!
Godo... ...just to pages ahead of you...
601HD TD
Barcelona (Spain)
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:36 AM, Carlos Sa <carlossa52@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As I examined the fuselage plans, I noticed the bottom skin sides aren't
straight: where the front (6F1-1) and rear (6F1-2) parts join, there is an
angle.
>
> This raised a concern: as the bottom longeron is straight, won't I have p
roblems with edge distance when I drill holes on the longeron?
> (see attached drawing - obviously not on scale - where the blue part is 6
F1-2, the blue part is 6F1-1 and the longeron is the long blue rectangle).
>
> Or I could make the bottom ski straight, but this could have a ripple eff
ect (i.e., 6F1-2 (front H.T. frame) might need to be wider, which would in
turn affect 6F2-6 (rear panel, top) and God know what else...).
>
> I would appreciate any comments from those that have been there (and stil
l remember).
>
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD, plans
> Montreal, Canada
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin |
Carlos-
I had the same trouble visualizing your problem, but my fuse is the same
as John's, if that's any help. The bend isn't as extreme in reality as it
seems on paper.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Livsey" <jlivsey@bigpond.com>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:53 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> I had trouble figuring out the question but looking at the plans I finally
> realised what your problem is. From memory (My CH601HDS has been flying 5
> years) the longerons arn't straight (Well mine arn't) they actually have a
> slight bend at 6F2-1. Again from memory when I built the tail section I
> came up against the same problem you have but just pulled the longerons
> into the right position. Other builders may disagree with this however,
> will be interested to see if you get other replies.
>
> I could try and get a picture of mine if you are interested.
>
> Regards John.
>
> --------
> CH601-HDS Flying
> See my website at http://zodiac.homelinux.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293022#293022
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin |
Yes, Carlos,
I did remake the bottom tail panel, but only slightly to get a straight
enough shot at proper edge distance. All else seemed to fit when jigged
as per pictures shown. I don't perceive any curve in my tail longerons
at this point. The pics were intended to show setup jigging used
to assess the rear bottom panel and the rest of the assembly. This is a
fairly common arrangement. I remember using quick clamps to grip
the final assembly, so sides might not have been perfectly straight for
drilling and clecoing along that line. Symmetry and centering
used up a lot of ink markers.
As a scratch builder, if I were so good at it, I'd not have had to make
second and third pieces on 30% of my plane to finish it ;-).
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Carlos Sa wrote:
> Larry, it appears you understood my concern - but I don't understand
> what you are saying.
>
> Did you position the second tail frame differently from the plans? or
> did you make a rear bottom skin different from the plans, so the sides
> of 6F1-1 and -2 make a straight line ? (I don't understand the
> sentence "The rudder pivot plates and
> extreme forward width required.")
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel-safe "grease" for Viton O-rings |
Craig and Barry:
"Viton & Buna-N are very similar to each other . . ." This is NOT true,
in my opinion. Viton is much more inert (and much more expensive). Also,
I think that silicone grease is fuel-resistant. But, TRY IT. Stick some
silicone grease on a stick or whatever, and swish it around a lot in
gasoline (with or without ethanol additive). I don't think it dissolves
very much at all.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin |
Larry, thanks for the clarification.
I believe I have now enough information to proceed: I'll try to "convince"
the longeron to follow the curve first, and if that doesn't work, make a
second rear bottom skin. Thankfully aluminum is recyclable...
Thanks to all the replied and offered their thoughts and experience!
Now back to the workbench...
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
On 5 April 2010 11:24, Larry McFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, Carlos,
> I did remake the bottom tail panel, but only slightly to get a straight
> enough shot at proper edge distance. All else seemed to fit when jigged
> as per pictures shown. I don't perceive any curve in my tail longerons at
> this point. The pics were intended to show setup jigging used
> to assess the rear bottom panel and the rest of the assembly. This is a
> fairly common arrangement. I remember using quick clamps to grip
> the final assembly, so sides might not have been perfectly straight for
> drilling and clecoing along that line. Symmetry and centering
> used up a lot of ink markers.
>
> As a scratch builder, if I were so good at it, I'd not have had to make
> second and third pieces on 30% of my plane to finish it ;-).
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin |
Carlos:
The attached picture is one I took of the bottom of my fuselage several
years ago.
If you look close you can see that the rivet line is not exactly
parallel to the edge of the longeron.
I could take another look at it the next time I am out at the shop where
the plane is stored, and let you know how much deviation there is
between the rivet line and the edge of the longeron.
Russell Johnson
601-HDS
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Sa
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 6:36 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin
As I examined the fuselage plans, I noticed the bottom skin sides
aren't straight: where the front (6F1-1) and rear (6F1-2) parts join,
there is an angle.
This raised a concern: as the bottom longeron is straight, won't I
have problems with edge distance when I drill holes on the longeron?
(see attached drawing - obviously not on scale - where the blue part
is 6F1-2, the blue part is 6F1-1 and the longeron is the long blue
rectangle).
Or I could make the bottom ski straight, but this could have a ripple
effect (i.e., 6F1-2 (front H.T. frame) might need to be wider, which
would in turn affect 6F2-6 (rear panel, top) and God know what else...).
I would appreciate any comments from those that have been there (and
still remember).
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel-safe "grease" for Viton O-rings |
John:
The term INERT does not fit into the description of these O rings.
Inert is a one word description of something that is non-reactive with
oxygen. As for expensive YES it is, but purchasing an O ring is not
the issue (Come On... $0.50 Vs $0.20), since the O Ring is supplied
with the unit.
And, your "opinion"... Nor mine matter, when it come to physics and
chemistry. It is the function of the material for this operation and
others that takes precedence. Also consult a chemical reactivity
chart for Viton, Buna-N and Neoprene the differences will become
apparent. Yet when compared against GAS and especially MoGas Neoprene
takes the hit.
I do not know what is in EZ Turn but it is both fuel resistant and
slippery and ... Even though it does not matter to many home builders,
it is even FAA acceptable. GEE! I wonder what the manufacture
recommends? Since the manufacture requirements must meet or exceed
FAA requirements AND the manufacture sets the preference. This part
of aircraft building is really an oxymoron. The manufacture sets the
requirements yet the FAA controls the requirements, or something to
that effect. Sort of the fox watching the hen house?
Barry
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:56 AM, John Goodings <goodings@yorku.ca> wrote:
>
> Craig and Barry:
>
> "Viton & Buna-N are very similar to each other . . ." This is NOT true, in
> my opinion. Viton is much more inert (and much more expensive). Also, I
> think that silicone grease is fuel-resistant. But, TRY IT. Stick some
> silicone grease on a stick or whatever, and swish it around a lot in
> gasoline (with or without ethanol additive). I don't think it dissolves
> very much at all.
>
> John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel-safe "grease" for Viton O-rings |
I haven't heard back from Andair yet. But on a small piece of paper that
came with the fittings they say "use any light grease. Looking at the design
the grease is there to ease assembly (so the o-ring isn't pinched or
damaged). But ultimately the o-ring seals the joint.
BTW: these are the adapters I am talking about. Although the pictures below
don't show it the backside of these adapters have a raised shoulder and an
o-ring which seals into a circular depression on the main body:
http://www.andair.co.uk/pix/accessories/MF25.jpg
http://www.andair.co.uk/pix/accessories/FF25.jpg
-- Craig
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: [Probable Spam] 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin |
Carlos,
Your picture implies the longeron needs to be shaped to fit the sheet metal. I'm
not building a HDS but I do have experience shaping L-Angles, formed or extruded.
If I'm not understanding the problem, let me know.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293133#293133
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: [Probable Spam] 601HD(S): bottom fuse skin |
Ron, that seems to be the case, judging from the comments I received.
Carlos
do not archive
On 5 April 2010 21:31, Ron Lendon <ron.lendon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Carlos,
>
> Your picture implies the longeron needs to be shaped to fit the sheet
> metal. I'm not building a HDS but I do have experience shaping L-Angles,
> formed or extruded. If I'm not understanding the problem, let me know.
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
> Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
>
>
Message 12
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Just a quick update for my friends on the list. Im back in the game. Last year
I made a change in my job and thought Id have to sell my Corvair powered 601XL
before it had taken its first flight. As luck (my good luck) would have it,
the bad economy made it a hard plane to sell. Ive recently found myself with
a new job and the income needed to keep my plane. So, last week I ordered the
Zenith upgrade kit and I spent today removing the right wing. Yahoo, were
back in business. Lets get this thing in the air.
Rich Vetterli
N56DV
601XL/Corvair
Pleasanton, CA
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