---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/24/10: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:05 AM - Re: Any Suggestions on a A&P PRep Course? (Juan Vega) 2. 09:03 AM - Re: Any Suggestions on a A&P PRep Course? (Jim Belcher) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:58 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Any Suggestions on a A&P PRep Course? Paul, I call Bull%$#^% on this one. The FAA regs clearly state that if you work on any aircraft and document 1800 hours of work, all you need is an endosment from an A&P to take the test. So as a builder even on experimentals, log all your time, even on maintenance, and when you get to 1800 hours, then decide if you want to go for a certification, get the en dorsment and get the test done. I will be happy to tell the FAA guy to show you in writing where he pulled that statment from, i doubt he would comply. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Mulwitz >Sent: Apr 17, 2010 7:36 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Any Suggestions on a A&P PRep Course? > >Hi Jeff, > > > >I spoke to an FAA guy at one of the shows on this point. He informed me the experience needed to get an A&P license must be on certified planes. This precludes work on Amateur built planes to qualify for the license. Also, it prevents people who work on planes in the manufacturer's factory since they are not yet certified. > > > >Good luck, > > > >Paul > > > > > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J Paris >Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:02 PM >To: europa-list@matronics.com; zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Any Suggestions on a A&P PRep Course? > > > >Hello Listers, > > > >In the process of building two amateur built experimentals, which are a Zenith Zodiac CH601XL and currently finishing up a Europa Monowheel Classic I have accrued enough hours to convince my local FSDO to sign off on taking the Airframe and Powerplant exams. Does anyone out in internet airplane building land know of or can vouch for a quality A&P preparation course to satisfy all 3 parts of the FAA A&P requirements i.e., written, oral and practical tests? Prefereably somewhere close to Rochester, NY if possible? > > > >Thanks for your time and consideration. > > > >Jeff Paris > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:51 AM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Any Suggestions on a A&P PRep Course? I have to agree with Juan on this one. I think the problem may be that some FAA employees are not as familiar with the wording of the FARs as others. FAR 65.77 states: "Each applicant for a mechanic certificate or rating must present either an appropriate graduation certificate or certificate of completion from a certificated aviation maintenance technician school or documentary evidence, satisfactory to the administrator, of - (a) At least 18 months of practical experience with the procedures, practices, materials, tools, and equipment generally used in constructing, maintaining, or altering airframes, or powerplants appropriate to the rating sought; or (b) At least 30 months of practical experience concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both the airfram and powerplant ratings." Nothing is said about how the aircraft is licensed. It could be part 23, part 25, experimental, etc etc. Some years ago, when I went in to get a FSDO to certify me to take the A&P exams, I brought a letter from the IA who had been supervising me. He paraphrased paragraphs (a) and (b) above. I don't want to name the FSDO, because I'm sure they have other people who are well qualified, and what I got was an isolated experience. It was a well-lit area, with offices in cubicles. One could hear what was going on in every other cubicle. The FAA guy who processed me told me that the letter I had did not reflect the necessary experience. Knowing, that it did, I suggested we look in the FARs, and find out what the letter should say, so I could get a correctly worded letter. The FAA employee fumbled a bit, and showed me the experience requirements for a master parachute rigger. "No," I said, "I believe those are the requirements for a master parachute rigger's certificate. I'm seeking the A&P certificate. I believe that's located in FAR 65.77." At this point, all the noise coming from the other cubicles stopped. It was clear the other FAA employees were enjoying the situation. The person reviewing my experience probably set a new speed record for filling out paperwork, and getting me out of there. Moral: The FAA is generally a good bunch of guys and gals. But there are a few who must demonstrate their authority by saying "no." Some of these really don't know the FARs all that well. Know the FARs, and make sure your experience letter states exactly what the FARs require. My guess is that the FAA guy Paul talked with isn't familiar with that part of the FARs. On Saturday 24 April 2010 09:58:08 you wrote: > The FAA regs clearly state that if you work > on any aircraft and document 1800 hours of work, all you need is an > endosment from an A&P to take the test. So as a builder even on > experimentals, log all your time, even on maintenance, and when you get > to 1800 hours, then decide if you want to go for a certification, get > the en dorsment and get the test done. I will be happy to tell the FAA > guy to show you in writing where he pulled that statment from, i doubt he > would comply. > > Juan > >I spoke to an FAA guy at one of the shows on this point. He informed me > > the experience needed to get an A&P license must be on certified planes. > > This precludes work on Amateur built planes to qualify for the license. > > Also, it prevents people who work on planes in the manufacturer's factory > > since they are not yet certified. > >Good luck, > >Paul ======================================= Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager Semi-proficient Househusband ======================================= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.