Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:25 AM - Re: First flight of N316JL (Klaus Truemper)
2. 04:52 AM - Re: First flight of N316JL (Michel Therrien)
3. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount question. (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 07:36 AM - Re: Re: First flight of N316JL (Jerry Latimer)
5. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount question. (Jerry Latimer)
6. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount question. (FLYaDIVE)
7. 10:44 AM - Seats for 601 B (AZFlyer)
8. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount question. (Bryan Martin)
9. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount question. (Jerry)
10. 03:06 PM - Re: First flight of N316JL (Klaus Truemper)
11. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: First flight of N316JL (Jerry)
12. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: First flight of N316JL (n801bh@netzero.com)
13. 09:12 PM - Re: Re: First flight of N316JL (Jerry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL |
Hi Jerry,
Congratulations!!
Left wing heavy: When you look out of the cockpit onto the left
wing, how far down must the aileron be relative to the trailing
edge, for wings level? This can be measured twice, once in level
flight, say at cruise speed, and once with engine at idle rpm and
best glide.
The test will give an idea of the effect of engine torque, and
also will tell how much is caused by the uneven weight distribution with
pilot in left seat. You could compare this with the numbers by other HDS builders.
I have not looked at this recently for my plane, but would guess that
for cruise, the left aileron is down 1 to 1 1/2 inches, and in glide about
half of that.
Best wishes,
Klaus
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL |
Congragulation Jerry!
It seems that many builders had this left wing issue. In my case, I made a new
rear spar attachment plate to move the hole somewhat and change the incidence
of the wing.
Michel
do not archive
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
--- On Sat, 7/10/10, Jerry <jlatimer1@cox.net> wrote:
> From: Jerry <jlatimer1@cox.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: First flight of N316JL
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Received: Saturday, July 10, 2010, 11:48 AM
> Jerry <jlatimer1@cox.net>
>
> N316JL (CH601HDS w/912ULS) took to the air this morning.
> She made one exciting trip around the circuit. Ran out of
> aileron trim trying trim out a left turning tendency. Had
> fumes in the cockpit from what appeared to be oil. Oil
> temps and pressure were good. After landing inspection
> showed no oil leaks. Must be the new burning off the
> exhaust system. Landing was uneventful, actually one of
> the best Ive made. This was probably due to the amount
> of concentration I was giving to the flight at the time.
>
> Thanks to Don Honabach letting me have some stick time in
> HDS a week ago. Without this time the flight could have
> been a lot more exciting.
>
> This has been a 10 year 10 month adventure from the rudder
> the workshop to the first flight. Im still flying
> high. Now to start working on the new punch list of
> things to do.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount question. |
Hi Jerry,
This message from Klaus Truemper made me wonder - did you mount your
engine aligned with the fuselage centerline? Or, did you angle it one
way or the other to deal with torque?
Paul
XL - doing upgrade
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Klaus
Truemper
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 4:15 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight of N316JL
Hi Jerry,
Congratulations!!
Left wing heavy: When you look out of the cockpit onto the left
wing, how far down must the aileron be relative to the trailing
edge, for wings level? This can be measured twice, once in level
flight, say at cruise speed, and once with engine at idle rpm and
best glide.
The test will give an idea of the effect of engine torque, and
also will tell how much is caused by the uneven weight distribution with
pilot in left seat. You could compare this with the numbers by other HDS
builders.
I have not looked at this recently for my plane, but would guess that
for cruise, the left aileron is down 1 to 1 1/2 inches, and in glide
about
half of that.
Best wishes,
Klaus
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL |
Klaus,
Thanks
I don't really know the answer to your questions, but they give me some
things to look at. I was too concerned about the fumes and wanted to get
back on the ground to check it out. I was able to control the airplane with
the aileron trim and holding quite a bit of right aileron pressure. I weigh
about 220 lbs, so I knew I my body mass would have an affect on a 625 lb
airplane's trim.
During the next flight I hope to get a better handle on the heavy left wing.
I plan on filling the right wing tank to see what that does the balance of
the airplane.
Jerry
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Klaus Truemper
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 4:15 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight of N316JL
Hi Jerry,
Congratulations!!
Left wing heavy: When you look out of the cockpit onto the left
wing, how far down must the aileron be relative to the trailing
edge, for wings level? This can be measured twice, once in level
flight, say at cruise speed, and once with engine at idle rpm and
best glide.
The test will give an idea of the effect of engine torque, and
also will tell how much is caused by the uneven weight distribution with
pilot in left seat. You could compare this with the numbers by other HDS
builders.
I have not looked at this recently for my plane, but would guess that
for cruise, the left aileron is down 1 to 1 1/2 inches, and in glide about
half of that.
Best wishes,
Klaus
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12:59:00
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount question. |
I used the stock Zenith supplied Rotax bed mount. During the take off roll,
I do have to hold right rudder pressure which I didn't expect. I was too
busy with the fumes to really notice any trim changes as I changed throttle
setting.
More things to do during the upcoming flights.
Jerry
flying at last
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 7:29 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount
question.
Hi Jerry,
This message from Klaus Truemper made me wonder - did you mount your engine
aligned with the fuselage centerline? Or, did you angle it one way or the
other to deal with torque?
Paul
XL - doing upgrade
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Klaus Truemper
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 4:15 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight of N316JL
Hi Jerry,
Congratulations!!
Left wing heavy: When you look out of the cockpit onto the left
wing, how far down must the aileron be relative to the trailing
edge, for wings level? This can be measured twice, once in level
flight, say at cruise speed, and once with engine at idle rpm and
best glide.
The test will give an idea of the effect of engine torque, and
also will tell how much is caused by the uneven weight distribution with
pilot in left seat. You could compare this with the numbers by other HDS
builders.
I have not looked at this recently for my plane, but would guess that
for cruise, the left aileron is down 1 to 1 1/2 inches, and in glide about
half of that.
Best wishes,
Klaus
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
12:59:00
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount question. |
Klaus:
Who cares what the deflection is in glide - That makes NO difference when
you are FLYING S&L.
It is in S&L that you want the plane to be trimmed out.
And it makes NO difference when in glide... If it is off - What are you
going to do? Wing Walk to
improve trim deflection?
Jerry:
May I add to the kudos - Congratulations - Ata-Boy.
The questions that should be prevalent are:
1 - Did you build the plane to spcs assuming that the specs are correct?
2 - Did you have Full / Equal Fuel in both tanks?
Personally I do not believe in Equal - I want Full!
Equal is a judgement call and full is a up-to- the-brim call.
3 - Is the panel mounted square - If so where is the Slip-Slide indicator?
Does is have the Ball Centered when in S&L?
If the Ball is off:
Check your rigging.
Check your rudder.
Check your Rudder trim tab.
4 - There is SOooooo much more to check as far as fixed and movable surfaces
go...
But let's ASS UME there are no dimples, warps, wrinkles, or mis-matched
parts...
Saw one plane with an aileron ... two - Ailerons installed up-side down. did
not matter much until you went to turn.
5 - This is a BIGGIE - I do not recall what plane you are flying... Does it
have FLAPS?
I worked on an RV-6 that kept rolling to the right. I check & measured
everything. well everything
except the flaps till the very end.
I found that in deployment they were EQUAL.
At each three second deployment they were equal.
BUT - When fully retracted one was higher than the other.
They did not seat EQUALLY in the retracted position.
Fuselage was off and BONDO was used BUT not SMOOTHLY or EQUALLY.
Fixed that and problem solved.
O! One other thing I checked and if you can do so...
6 - Do a W&B on EACH WHEEL. I found that there was a 50 Lb difference on
the mains.
SOOoooo here is another test/solution:-
7 - You want the trim tabs to as straight back as possible to reduce
parasitic drag.
IF you find a weight difference that can be corrected GREAT!
If you can't think about adding a SMALL amount of weight to the lifting wing
tip.
This is a last on a list of things to try.
8 - I hate to say this - Because we are ALL such GREAT pilots.
But, are your skills up to holding a plane S&L for 5 minutes to verify the
rolling tendency?
Could the roll be pilot induced?
HELL - You just spend most of the past few years BUILDING and not FLYING!
My old instructor (73) and friend. Told me - You can only be really good in
one thing at a time.
"Either you are a Great mechanic or a Great pilot."
Let's hear how and what you did to resolve the problem.
Barry
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
> Hi Jerry,
>
>
> This message from Klaus Truemper made me wonder - did you mount your engine
> aligned with the fuselage centerline? Or, did you angle it one way or the
> other to deal with torque?
>
>
> Paul
>
> XL - doing upgrade
>
>
> *From:* owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Klaus Truemper
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 11, 2010 4:15 AM
> *To:* Matronics Zenith
> *Subject:* Zenith-List: Re: First flight of N316JL
>
>
> Hi Jerry,
>
> Congratulations!!
>
> Left wing heavy: When you look out of the cockpit onto the left
> wing, how far down must the aileron be relative to the trailing
> edge, for wings level? This can be measured twice, once in level
> flight, say at cruise speed, and once with engine at idle rpm and
> best glide.
>
> The test will give an idea of the effect of engine torque, and
> also will tell how much is caused by the uneven weight distribution with
> pilot in left seat. You could compare this with the numbers by other HDS
> builders.
> I have not looked at this recently for my plane, but would guess that
> for cruise, the left aileron is down 1 to 1 1/2 inches, and in glide about
> half of that.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Klaus
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
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>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
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Message 7
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List,
Does anybody know of other suppliers of seats (finished) for 601XL? I know FlightCrafters
in FL. Any others?
Thanks,
Mike
Upgrade finished...yuck!
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304475#304475
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount question. |
Do you have any kind of seal on the nose wheel steering actuator slots? You could
be getting some smell coming in through there.
On Jul 11, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jerry Latimer wrote:
> I used the stock Zenith supplied Rotax bed mount. During the take off roll,
I do have to hold right rudder pressure which I didn't expect. I was too busy
with the fumes to really notice any trim changes as I changed throttle setting.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL - engine mount question. |
Bryan,
I used some engine baffling material on the nose wheel push rods, but there is
still leakage in the slit.
Jerry
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL |
Hi Jerry,
I did a test flight today to confirm how far the left aileron must be turned
down in level flight. The number I gave this morning is way too large.
According to the test flight, the left aileron is turned down approx. 1/2 inch
for level flight in cruise. Thus, that 1/2 inch handles both the single pilot
in the left seat and the torque produced by the Rotax engine.
Hope this helps.
Happy flying,
Klaus
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL |
Klaus,
Thanks
My plan right now is to double check the aileron rigging again. If both are in
line with the top of the wing, then I will shorten the left pushrod a couple
of turns and lengthen the right pushrod a couple of turns, and then test fly it
again. The left aileron trim tab was at a pretty steep up angle and It almost
had the left turn tendency trimmed out. I will measure the tab angle and then
see if my adjustments to pushrod length are having any affect.
I don't want to make too big of an adjustment at any one time.
Jerry
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL |
shortening one pushrod and lengthening the other will probably only chan
ge the position of your stick in flight, not correct the heavy wing. YMM
V
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jerry <jlatimer1@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: First flight of N316JL
Klaus,
Thanks
My plan right now is to double check the aileron rigging again. If both
are in line with the top of the wing, then I will shorten the left push
rod a couple of turns and lengthen the right pushrod a couple of turns,
and then test fly it again. The left aileron trim tab was at a pretty s
teep up angle and It almost had the left turn tendency trimmed out. I w
ill measure the tab angle and then see if my adjustments to pushrod leng
th are having any affect.
I don't want to make too big of an adjustment at any one time.
Jerry
========================
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____________________________________________________________
Project Management Cert
Villanova PMP® & CAPM® Classes. Average Salary For PMPs is $100K
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4c3a6aed820e71f27f2st06vuc
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N316JL |
I agree Ben. I thought about what I said after I hit the send. I will need to
increase the width of my existing trim tab or attach a bent stationary tab on
the opposing aileron.
Jerry
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