Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:24 AM - Zenith Down (Bill Naumuk)
2. 07:48 AM - Re: 601 down in Washington (John Edwards)
3. 03:20 PM - Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i ssues. (n801bh@netzero.com)
4. 04:58 PM - Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Jeff)
5. 05:32 PM - Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Sabrina)
6. 05:40 PM - Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i ssues. (Bryan Martin)
7. 07:31 PM - Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Jeff)
8. 07:43 PM - Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i ssues. (n801bh@netzero.com)
9. 08:03 PM - Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i ssues (Sabrina)
10. 08:59 PM - Re: Upgrade question ref. 6-ZU-4-1 (Ron Lendon)
Message 1
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All-
In light of the report that there were two people aboard the FIRST
FLIGHT of an experimental, I'd take any media report concerning this or
any other aircraft accident with a BIG grain of salt. From my area:
A couple of years ago there was a fatal accident at the airport in
Dart, N.Y. The TV talking head said the cause was engine failure. The
accompanying video footage showed the wreckage of a Schweitzer glider.
Last week there was a fatal accident at the Franklin, Pa. Regional
Airport, involving a "Nadiq" experimental aircraft. If anyone has a link
on the design, please share it with everyone around here.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601 down in Washington |
I shared a few laughs and discussions with the pilot who died in this
601 in the weeks prior to the accident. He had some issues with the oil
and the prop(an electric reversible type). He spent several hours taxing
back and forth and seemed to have resolved any issues that had given him
any concern. He had a bottle of champagne ready to celebrate the
conclusion of his flight. Yes the plane had not flown for years, but it
seemed he had meticulously checked everything out with his A&P who spent
many hours along side him in preparation for the flight.
The article in KOMO news does not mention the whole story about how he
was observed at a high angle of attack wallowing around before striking
the ground and cartwheeling to a stop.
I will not speculate as to the cause, but it seems the engine was still
running from lack of any reports that it was not by witnesses.
I shared a hanger with Mr Mc Donald and he will be greatly missed!
John Edwards at mykitlog.com/kapowsin
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i |
ssues.
Warning::: Disclaimer. I am an 801 builder and owner, not a 601 guy, BU
T...
I have had a good experience with Zenith during my build of my 801. Abou
t half way through we had an 801 break up in mid air. To say all of us 8
01 builders were quite concerned is an understatement. We have since lea
rned is was pilot error breaking apart a possible weakened tail from an
earlier mod.
1- Sabrina has every right to speak her piece as she is the builder of a
601XL.
2- When this whole fiasco started the common blame was " it was a homebu
ilt airframe and it was not put together correctly". Then we had a facto
ry one fail in the exact same manner. The new spin was " it was pilot er
ror and they flew it too fast.... Then the Yuba city crash was documente
d with radar returns that show the speed was below VA and the same failu
re repeated itself. Hhmmm.
I am a pretty vocal person and most on this list know how I feel on post
ed topics.
Just Yesterday I got a rather cold reception when I visited the Zenith b
ooth at Osh.
Are they ticked at me for saying what I do ? Most probably.
For all you people, including Zenith Aircraft Company, who persist in cl
aiming there is NO problem with the design and state Chris Heintz has d
ecades of engineering experience so he is right and others are wrong are
in denial of the facts.
So I guess my question is this. If the 601XL is so safe and not flawed w
hy has Zenith not displayed it at OSH, or any other airshow for that mat
ter, for two years? What's their concern?
Seems to me they would display a 601XL, a standard one and an updated on
e, side by side and answer any and all questions to ease the present and
future customers minds.
Comments guys and gals .... ??
do not archive
m>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl u
pdate issues.
et>
Well, Sabrina, you have been successful in prolonging this entirely usel
ess
email train. Congratulations!
Jeff
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 7:39 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl updat
e
issues.
Mr. Davidson, in my defense
Col. Russ Schleeh says:
"check 6, she is a charger"
Don't know if that carries any weight, but I do try...
Hugs to Jim & Paul...
Paul... see you today?
Jim... see you the 17th on my way back from Edwards?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306791#306791
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Ben,
The point is that no smoking gun has been found to be the cause of the
XL accidents. Innovators like you are very welcome and have a valuable
place in our Zenith community. But when someone claims that CH owes them a
refund because the design is short of the claims: that has not been shown to
my satisfaction. Clearly, something has been happening with the XL. People
have died. But the cause has still not been clearly identified. To claim
otherwise is just unethical, juvenile, sophomoric, or whatever. The upgrade
package is a shotgun approach based on the lack of an identified single
cause. Most people accept the upgrade package as resulting in an acceptable
design. Sometimes in life there is no clear answer to our questions. I
don't see any use in furthering this discussion. This is old stuff. Let's
move on.
Can you help with my Jabiru 3300 air plenum baffles?
Jeff
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
n801bh@netzero.com
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:14 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl
update i ssues.
Warning::: Disclaimer. I am an 801 builder and owner, not a 601 guy, BUT...
I have had a good experience with Zenith during my build of my 801. About
half way through we had an 801 break up in mid air. To say all of us 801
builders were quite concerned is an understatement. We have since learned is
was pilot error breaking apart a possible weakened tail from an earlier mod.
1- Sabrina has every right to speak her piece as she is the builder of a
601XL.
2- When this whole fiasco started the common blame was " it was a homebuilt
airframe and it was not put together correctly". Then we had a factory one
fail in the exact same manner. The new spin was " it was pilot error and
they flew it too fast.... Then the Yuba city crash was documented with radar
returns that show the speed was below VA and the same failure repeated
itself. Hhmmm.
I am a pretty vocal person and most on this list know how I feel on posted
topics.
Just Yesterday I got a rather cold reception when I visited the Zenith booth
at Osh.
Are they ticked at me for saying what I do ? Most probably.
For all you people, including Zenith Aircraft Company, who persist in
claiming there is NO problem with the design and state Chris Heintz has
decades of engineering experience so he is right and others are wrong are in
denial of the facts.
So I guess my question is this. If the 601XL is so safe and not flawed why
has Zenith not displayed it at OSH, or any other airshow for that matter,
for two years? What's their concern?
Seems to me they would display a 601XL, a standard one and an updated one,
side by side and answer any and all questions to ease the present and future
customers minds.
Comments guys and gals .... ??
do not archive
m>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl
update issues.
Well, Sabrina, you have been successful in prolonging this entirely useless
email train. Congratulations!
Jeff
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 7:39 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update
issues.
Mr. Davidson, in my defense
Col. Russ Schleeh says:
"check 6, she is a charger"
Don't know if that carries any weight, but I do try...
Hugs to Jim & Paul...
Paul... see you today?
Jim... see you the 17th on my way back from Edwards?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306791#306791
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Ben,
Sorry I missed you! I am back in Chicago. Maybe the next time I head to Sturgis
I will stop by.
You have a very good point. I too, was looking forward to seeing the B version
at Air Venture 2010.
Jeff,
I was joking at the 10% refund. Please dont take my words out of context. Before
you ask to move on, remember, you are the one who moved this discussion to
the Zenith list and got Ben and the other 700/800 series builders involved.
Jim,
Thank you. I will be in Vegas on the 14th. Hope to be in CA on the 17th.
Paul,
Get off the Internet for a bit and go catch the first night time air show!
JLScott,
Thank you.
Karl,
Hugs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306989#306989
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i |
ssues.
It is still possible to break an airplane while flying below Va. Va is the speed
at which, if the gust induced or control input induced rate of change of angle
of attack is below a defined maximum value, the wing will stall before its
maximum structural loading is exceeded. Flying below Va does not mean that you
can move the controls abruptly from stop to stop or make large control deflections
around more than one axis without damaging the airframe.
See: http://www.flyingmag.com/myth-maneuvering-speed
On Jul 31, 2010, at 6:14 PM, n801bh@netzero.com wrote:
>
> 2- When this whole fiasco started the common blame was " it was a homebuilt airframe
and it was not put together correctly". Then we had a factory one fail
in the exact same manner. The new spin was " it was pilot error and they flew
it too fast.... Then the Yuba city crash was documented with radar returns that
show the speed was below VA and the same failure repeated itself. Hhmmm.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
do not archive.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Sabrina,
I guess that I'm just tired of your jokes.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 8:32 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
Ben,
Sorry I missed you! I am back in Chicago. Maybe the next time I head to Sturgis
I will stop by.
You have a very good point. I too, was looking forward to seeing the B version
at Air Venture 2010.
Jeff,
I was joking at the 10% refund. Please dont take my words out of context. Before
you ask to move on, remember, you are the one who moved this discussion to
the Zenith list and got Ben and the other 700/800 series builders involved.
Jim,
Thank you. I will be in Vegas on the 14th. Hope to be in CA on the 17th.
Paul,
Get off the Internet for a bit and go catch the first night time air show!
JLScott,
Thank you.
Karl,
Hugs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306989#306989
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i |
ssues.
Hi Jeff....
We are all in the Zenith family in one way or another so a healthy debat
e that might prevent future fatalities in my mind is constructive. Email
me directly on your troubles with the 3300 air plenum issues. If I can
help fabricate something I will.
Roger Lambert sent this to my personal email so I wll post it to the lis
t as he asked.
? Perhaps the reason you get a cool reception is you post messages wi
th incorrect statements of fact. Zenith has displayed a 601xl at Lakelan
d each of the last two years as well as other airshows, including the LS
A in Sebring. You can post your retraction in the same forum as the ori
ginal.
Roger Lambert.
I said Osh and other airshows. You can pick and choose you comments as y
ou feel the need to position your case, BUT. Osh is the biggest show for
experimentals so my question still exists.
Why not display a 601/650 ?????????????
Your turn sir.
Ben.
st@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl u
pdate issues.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:of
fice" />Ben,
The point is that no smoking gun has been found to be the cause of
the XL accidents. Innovators like you are very welcome and have a valu
able place in our Zenith community. But when someone claims that CH owe
s them a refund because the design is short of the claims: that has not
been shown to my satisfaction. Clearly, something has been happening wi
th the XL. People have died. But the cause has still not been clearly
identified. To claim otherwise is just unethical, juvenile, sophomoric,
or whatever. The upgrade package is a shotgun approach based on the la
ck of an identified single cause. Most people accept the upgrade packag
e as resulting in an acceptable design. Sometimes in life there is no c
lear answer to our questions. I don't see any use in furthering this di
scussion. This is old stuff. Let's move on.
Can you help with my Jabiru 3300 air plenum baffles?
Jeff
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh@netzero.com
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:14 PM
ice:smarttags" />zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl u
pdate i ssues.
Warning::: Disclaimer. I am an 801 builder and owner, not a 601 guy, BU
T...
I have had a good experience with Zenith during my build of my 801. Abou
t half way through we had an 801 break up in mid air. To say all of us 8
01 builders were quite concerned is an understatement. We have since lea
rned is was pilot error breaking apart a possible weakened tail from an
earlier mod.
1- Sabrina has every right to speak her piece as she is the builder of a
601XL.
2- When this whole fiasco started the common blame was " it was a homebu
ilt airframe and it was not put together correctly". Then we had a facto
ry one fail in the exact same manner. The new spin was " it was pilot er
ror and they flew it too fast.... Then the Yuba city crash was documente
d with radar returns that show the speed was below VA and the same failu
re repeated itself. Hhmmm.
I am a pretty vocal person and most on this list know how I feel on post
ed topics.
Just Yesterday I got a rather cold reception when I visited the Zenith b
ooth at Osh.
Are they ticked at me for saying what I do ? Most probably.
For all you people, including Zenith Aircraft Company, who persist in cl
aiming there is NO problem with the design and state Chris Heintz has d
ecades of engineering experience so he is right and others are wrong are
in denial of the facts.
So I guess my question is this. If the 601XL is so safe and not flawed w
hy has Zenith not displayed it at OSH, or any other airshow for that mat
ter, for two years? What's their concern?
Seems to me they would display a 601XL, a standard one and an updated on
e, side by side and answer any and all questions to ease the present and
future customers minds.
Comments guys and gals .... ??
do not archive
m>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl u
pdate issues.
et>
Well, Sabrina, you have been successful in prolonging this entirely usel
ess
email train. Congratulations!
Jeff
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 7:39 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl updat
e
issues.
Mr. Davidson, in my defense
Col. Russ Schleeh says:
"check 6, she is a charger"
Don't know if that carries any weight, but I do try...
Hugs to Jim & Paul...
Paul... see you today?
Jim... see you the 17th on my way back from Edwards?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306791#306791
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p; - List Contribution Web Site -<B ===
=====================
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TODAY: iPads for $23.74?
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i ssues |
http://www.generalaviationnews.com/?p=15659
Should comment 2 be retracted or updated?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307007#307007
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Upgrade question ref. 6-ZU-4-1 |
Mike,
You have to have the cables attached and tensioned before you can trim the bracket
correctly. As I remember, the angle of movement of the ailerons is 11.5 degrees
up and 11.5 degrees down. I used a digital level when setting the stop
at the aileron, 11.5 degrees down from neutral. The control stop at the stick
will stop the up motion of the ailerons.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307014#307014
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