---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/05/10: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:22 AM - Re: Zenith Zodiac Front Page News (sdthatcher) 2. 08:48 AM - Zenith.aero is down (Jim Belcher) 3. 09:50 AM - Re: Zenith.aero is down (Carlos Sa) 4. 09:53 AM - Re: Zenith.aero is down (Mitch Hodges) 5. 12:03 PM - Re: Zenith.aero is down (Craig Payne) 6. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Zenith.aero is down (Bob Fulmer) 7. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Zenith.aero is down (Jim Belcher) 8. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: Zenith.aero is down (John Davis) 9. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Zenith.aero is down (Craig Payne) 10. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Zenith.aero is down (Jim Belcher) 11. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Zenith.aero is down (Paul Mulwitz) 12. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: Zenith.aero is down (jaybannist@cs.com) 13. 04:20 PM - Re: Zenith.aero is down (Sabrina) 14. 07:32 PM - Re: Zenith.aero is down (Tim Juhl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:11 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith Zodiac Front Page News From: "sdthatcher" There's nothing like page one in the Chicago Tribune! I grew up in the Chicago area (Franklin Park and Wilmette) and the Tribune is tough to get into short of committing a crime! Congratulations again Sabrina... Sabrina wrote: > At little more favorable press as to the 601XL from Midwest Flyer Magazine. If a 16 year old can fix it, it must not be too big of a problem. > > http://MIT.edu/Fermilab ............... http://midwestflyer.com > > I guess the FAA issued me an A&P license I did not know about! A couple other errata: I trained at KPWK at 9; it was built and painted in Chicago proper. But hey, amazing press, thank you to all involved. > > If anyone has a hard copy of the magazine they don't need, feel free to mail it off to me. P.O. Box 75, Chicago, IL 60690 -------- Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA N601EL, EAA203 42 hours and holding. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307616#307616 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:08 AM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith.aero is down Has anyone else noticed that Zenith.zero is down? I get a "04: Not Found" message, which suggests that the URL isn't in the name server. -- ======================================= Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager Semi-proficient Househusband ======================================= ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:50 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith.aero is down I get a 404 as well. Possibly down for maintenance, or for a B Gates salute... Carlos On 5 August 2010 11:47, Jim Belcher wrote: > > Has anyone else noticed that Zenith.zero is down? I get a "04: Not Found" > message, which suggests that the URL isn't in the name server. > -- > ======================================= > Jim B. Belcher > BS,MS Physics > A&P/IA > General Radio Telephone Certificate > Instrument Rated Pilot > Retired Aerospace Technical Manager > Semi-proficient Househusband > ======================================= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:13 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down From: "Mitch Hodges" [quote="Z601c(at)anemicaardvark.c"]Has anyone else noticed that Zenith.zero is down? I get a "04: Not Found" quote] The AMD site is still blank as well (http://www.newplane.com). Its not actually down, the site is responding but the content has been removed from the site. All links to the site (including subpages) come up blank but they are being served up. I called the Mothership in Mexico. Sebastian said (in the background) they were down for some maintenance but should be back up soon. -------- Mitch Hodges N601MH (Zenith 601HDS) Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero Wings Under Perpetual Construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307655#307655 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:38 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith.aero is down Same here. And the AMD site (www.newplane.com) is blank. Thank god the ZAC site is still up. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Belcher Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:48 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith.aero is down --> Has anyone else noticed that Zenith.zero is down? I get a "04: Not Found" message, which suggests that the URL isn't in the name server. -- ======================================= Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager Semi-proficient Househusband ======================================= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:33 PM PST US From: "Bob Fulmer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down Word has it that AMD has been sold to a guy in Fla. He does not, as yet appear to be doing anything with it, nor is there any indication as to what exactly he "might" do with it. I asked at the ZAC booth and the subject was danced around totally. The Builder's aid guy in Fla is not the person who bought it. Nothing to back this up but the Site status would seem to support this kind of action. I did ask at the booth if it were so and did not get any firm, absolute denial from anyone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitch Hodges" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:52 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down > > [quote="Z601c(at)anemicaardvark.c"]Has anyone else noticed that > Zenith.zero is down? I get a "04: Not Found" > quote] > > The AMD site is still blank as well (http://www.newplane.com). Its not > actually down, the site is responding but the content has been removed > from the site. All links to the site (including subpages) come up blank > but they are being served up. > > I called the Mothership in Mexico. Sebastian said (in the background) > they were down for some maintenance but should be back up soon. > > -------- > Mitch Hodges > N601MH (Zenith 601HDS) > Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero > Wings Under Perpetual Construction > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307655#307655 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:03 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down It's hard to be sure how good a rumor this is. I'm sure the problems with the XL have hurt Zenith financially, and they may need a cash infusion. At the same time, Piper is marketing virtually the same aircraft. If this rumor is true, it may hurt Zenith's sales. If I were Piper, I might argue that all the problems are with Zenith's aircraft, not Piper's. But if I were Zenith, I might advertise that you can get the same plane cheaper from Zenith, and take advantage of the money Piper has spent on advertising. Does Zenith really want to be in the semi-certificated aircraft business, or do they want to be in their long-term forte of kit planes? On Thursday 05 August 2010 14:40:43 you wrote: > > Word has it that AMD has been sold to a guy in Fla. He does not, as yet > appear to be doing anything with it, nor is there any indication as to what > exactly he "might" do with it. I asked at the ZAC booth and the subject > was danced around totally. The Builder's aid guy in Fla is not the person > who bought it. Nothing to back this up but the Site status would seem to > support this kind of action. I did ask at the booth if it were so and did > not get any firm, absolute denial from anyone. > ----- Original Message ----- -- ======================================= Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager ======================================= ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:36 PM PST US From: John Davis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down Hi Jim, Its my understanding that AMD and Zenith are two totally different companies. There is/was a Heintz brother at each company though. I'm not sure how many folks who are buying PiperSports or AMD planes for that matter would buy a kit instead.... John Davis N601JD - 601XL On 8/5/2010 4:53 PM, Jim Belcher wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Belcher > > It's hard to be sure how good a rumor this is. I'm sure the problems with the > XL have hurt Zenith financially, and they may need a cash infusion. > > At the same time, Piper is marketing virtually the same aircraft. If this > rumor is true, it may hurt Zenith's sales. If I were Piper, I might argue that > all the problems are with Zenith's aircraft, not Piper's. > > But if I were Zenith, I might advertise that you can get the same plane > cheaper from Zenith, and take advantage of the money Piper has spent on > advertising. > > Does Zenith really want to be in the semi-certificated aircraft business, or do > they want to be in their long-term forte of kit planes? > > > On Thursday 05 August 2010 14:40:43 you wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Fulmer" >> >> Word has it that AMD has been sold to a guy in Fla. He does not, as yet >> appear to be doing anything with it, nor is there any indication as to what >> exactly he "might" do with it. I asked at the ZAC booth and the subject >> was danced around totally. The Builder's aid guy in Fla is not the person >> who bought it. Nothing to back this up but the Site status would seem to >> support this kind of action. I did ask at the booth if it were so and did >> not get any firm, absolute denial from anyone. >> ----- Original Message ----- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:14 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down Aero is back up. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:21 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down On Thursday 05 August 2010 15:59:34 you wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > Its my understanding that AMD and Zenith are two totally different > companies. There is/was a Heintz brother at each company though. I'm > not sure how many folks who are buying PiperSports or AMD planes for > that matter would buy a kit instead.... Good points, all. I'm not sure, in the fiction that surrounds corporations, how much difference there really is between the two companies. I was told once that all that was needed for two corporations was at least one person in each corporation who held one or more shares of stock, but who did not hold stock in the other corporation. Me, I'm not a lawyer, but a techie, so I don't know for sure. I didn't mean to suggest that buyers of the kit were candidates for a finished plane, or vice-versa. Rather, I meant that AMD and Piper had virtually the same finished aircraft, competing for the same $. -- ======================================= Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager ======================================= ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:21 PM PST US From: "Paul Mulwitz" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down Hi Folks, I took a good look at the Piper plane at OSH, and I have followed discussions of CZAW and their products for several years now. In my opinion, the Piper Sport is a derivative of the Zodiac XL rather than an exact copy. The wing tips are quite different, but the center console is the same. The landing gear (I think) is composite while the Zodiac gear is solid aluminum "Spring". The Piper has a smaller baggage compartment with a rear shelf. I believe there are extensive structural changes in the wing spars and related parts of the plane. This suggests that whoever did the engineering on the Sport Cruiser/Piper Sport took a different view of the structure than the Heintz boys did. The Sport Cruiser and Piper Sport have been flying for a number of years and I don't think any of them have experienced structural failures. Certainly there have not been a rash of them like the XL. After my long and productive conversation with the FAA guy at OSH, I wonder if the Sport cruiser was a derivative of the Zodiac XL or it was the other way around. He definitely said the XL was originally designed to the 1200 pound European standard and just "Pencil whipped" to meet the US LSA specified gross weight of 1320. He also said he had proprietary information from Zenair/Zenith that he would not disclose, but assured me he was not hiding safety related information from me that would impact my own safety in an XL. I don't know what that information is, but it might have been something relating to the design history and who exactly did the engineering. I certainly asked him about that and all he would say was that "Zenair" provided the engineering for the upgrade and not the FAA. About corporations, I do indeed know a fair amount on that subject. I am not aware of any requirement for there to be different owners and/or officers from one corporation to another. If so, that would be a state law and certainly wouldn't impact two corporations in two different countries like Zenair and Zenith. I have no knowledge of any transactions going on regarding any of these companies. However, I feel the Piper Sport is direct competition for the AMD XL/650. On the other hand both Piper and AMD offer many other models of aircraft which have nothing to do with the other company's products. Paul Camas, WA Currently installing upgrade in my XL. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Belcher Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:02 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down On Thursday 05 August 2010 15:59:34 you wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > Its my understanding that AMD and Zenith are two totally different > companies. There is/was a Heintz brother at each company though. I'm > not sure how many folks who are buying PiperSports or AMD planes for > that matter would buy a kit instead.... Good points, all. I'm not sure, in the fiction that surrounds corporations, how much difference there really is between the two companies. I was told once that all that was needed for two corporations was at least one person in each corporation who held one or more shares of stock, but who did not hold stock in the other corporation. Me, I'm not a lawyer, but a techie, so I don't know for sure. I didn't mean to suggest that buyers of the kit were candidates for a finished plane, or vice-versa. Rather, I meant that AMD and Piper had virtually the same finished aircraft, competing for the same $. -- ======================================= Jim B. Belcher ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down From: jaybannist@cs.com The way I see it, the Piper and AMD 650 have essentially the same bones, but so do the Camry and the Lexus ES. The reason one costs more than th e other is primarily an upscaled interior finish and a prestigious name; the latter being the greatest. EVERYONE knows Piper. Who knows AMD ? Jay Bannister -----Original Message----- From: Jim Belcher Sent: Thu, Aug 5, 2010 5:02 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down On Thursday 05 August 2010 15:59:34 you wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > Its my understanding that AMD and Zenith are two totally different > companies. There is/was a Heintz brother at each company though. I'm > not sure how many folks who are buying PiperSports or AMD planes for > that matter would buy a kit instead.... Good points, all. I'm not sure, in the fiction that surrounds corporations, how much differe nce there really is between the two companies. I was told once that all that was needed for two corporations was at least one person in each corporation wh o held one or more shares of stock, but who did not hold stock in the other corporation. Me, I'm not a lawyer, but a techie, so I don't know for sure. I didn't mean to suggest that buyers of the kit were candidates for a fini shed plane, or vice-versa. Rather, I meant that AMD and Piper had virtually the same finished aircraft, competing for the same $. -- ======================== =============== Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager ======================== =============== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:41 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down From: "Sabrina" The Piper LSA has 3/8" spar doublers we have 1/4"... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307712#307712 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:55 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith.aero is down From: "Tim Juhl" AMD www.newplane.com is up too. -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Tearing wings apart for modification Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307727#307727 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.