---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/17/10: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:37 AM - Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused (Clive Richards) 2. 10:29 AM - Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused (Ron Steele) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:41 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused Dave We have a 601HD but with a 0 200 so I cannot comment on the Rotax powered version performance but before committing yourself I would check with the LAA which versions are on their approved list now, they approved a different mod for the XL to get them flying in UK & I don't know if the latest US kit or drawings are approved. There may be a European version available the LAA should know. But if it is not approved it will increase time & cost to get a permit to fly. do not archive Clive Rays G CBDG 400 Hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Disney" Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:58 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused > > Hi, > I'm a newby to Zodiacs. I was given a ride in a Rotax powered 601 HD and > found it an enchanting aircraft. It took off from a relatively short grass > strip (Westonzoyland for those in the UK) with two pretty beefy blokes on > board. > > I loved the central column (my Airtourer has the same arrangement) and > after an hours flying it had only used 15 litres of mogas - excellent. My > Airtourer is aerobatic so has pretty sharp handling but the Zodiac was up > there with it and had the advantage of better load carrying qualities, > better short field performance and much better fuel consumption, whats > more it's an LAA aircraft rather than CofA. > > I've started to research the type looking at old magazine flight tests and > scrolling around on the Zenair web site etc. But I'm a little confused. I > know the difference between the HD and the HDS, I know the XL was a new > design that has not been without its problems, but for the life of me I > cant figure out the differencies between the XL and the 650 other than the > canopy - can somebody please enlighten me or tell me where I can find out > the information. > > Whilst I'm showing my ignorance perhaps some kind sole can offer a view on > the right aircraft for me. I do not need to comply with LSA (I have a full > PPL and medical so do not need to be restricted by 1320 MAUW and 120 > knots). I want an aircraft that is 'buildable' preferably in metal maybe > as a plans built, it must be powered by either a Rotax 912 or possibly a > Jabriu 3300. Weight carrying is more important than speed and it must be > able to operate from a 500/600 meter grass strip. I know that some of the > zenair range fit the bill. > > Regards > > Dave > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309021#309021 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:29:23 AM PST US From: Ron Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused Of course you should check locally, but the Zenith approved modes include the LAA stuff, plus a lot more. I've never heard of updated plans for the 601 or 650 that includes the modes, they are in an update package. I've also never heard of an updated kit for the 650 that would come with the modes installed. I not sure you could even purchase a 650 kit at this point in time. It seems like Zenith would announce a new kit , and they never have that I'm aware of. There seems to have been a change in nomenclature at Zenith There used to be the 650XL and the 601XL and I have both sets of planes to prove it. Now the 650 is no longer called the XL by Zenith (according to a phone call I had a month or so ago). I'm not sure if there still remains a 650XLB (upgraded) or if it's just called a 650 (with or without B). But there is still officially a 601XL and 601XLB. As far as I know all 601's are also called Zodiacs, but HD/HDS I'm not so familiar with. Changes from 601 to 650: 1 Rudder changed to look "sleeker" (cosmetic, backward and forward compatible) 2 Anti-oil canning stiffeners in wings and fuse (cosmetic, and can be retro fitted to 601) 3 Canopy: 650 has more head room and, more importantly, a roll bar and improved (in my opinion) latch. This is a substantial change to structure and sheet metal and plastic. 4 The wing incidence is changed slightly (2degress I think) for better forward visibility. Zenith stated early on when the 650 was announced that 601 wings could be used on the 650. Since the angle change is built into the main spar, I'm not sure how that will work, but hope to find out one of these years when I start the fuselage. That's about it. I think the 601/650 is a great plane with an unfortunate history. People who fly it really seem to love it. The only "off" notes I've heard about flying is the with the S-LSA model, due to weight issues with the 0200. In the US, the S-LSA max weight is the law, whereas with conventionally certified plans, its more of a suggestion/liability issue. So going over max weight by even 1kg is a violation in an S-LSA, where it's no big deal in a regular plane or experimental. Ron On 08/17/2010 11:33 AM, Clive Richards wrote: > > > Dave > We have a 601HD but with a 0 200 so I cannot comment on > the Rotax powered version performance but before committing yourself I > would check with the LAA which versions are on their approved list > now, they approved a different mod for the XL to get them flying in UK > & I don't know if the latest US kit or drawings are approved. > There may be a European version available the LAA should know. But if > it is not approved it will increase time & cost to get a permit to fly. > do not archive > Clive > Rays G CBDG 400 Hrs > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Disney" > To: > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:58 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused > > >> >> >> Hi, >> I'm a newby to Zodiacs. I was given a ride in a Rotax powered 601 HD >> and found it an enchanting aircraft. It took off from a relatively >> short grass strip (Westonzoyland for those in the UK) with two pretty >> beefy blokes on board. >> >> I loved the central column (my Airtourer has the same arrangement) >> and after an hours flying it had only used 15 litres of mogas - >> excellent. My Airtourer is aerobatic so has pretty sharp handling but >> the Zodiac was up there with it and had the advantage of better load >> carrying qualities, better short field performance and much better >> fuel consumption, whats more it's an LAA aircraft rather than CofA. >> >> I've started to research the type looking at old magazine flight >> tests and scrolling around on the Zenair web site etc. But I'm a >> little confused. I know the difference between the HD and the HDS, I >> know the XL was a new design that has not been without its problems, >> but for the life of me I cant figure out the differencies between the >> XL and the 650 other than the canopy - can somebody please enlighten >> me or tell me where I can find out the information. >> >> Whilst I'm showing my ignorance perhaps some kind sole can offer a >> view on the right aircraft for me. I do not need to comply with LSA >> (I have a full PPL and medical so do not need to be restricted by >> 1320 MAUW and 120 knots). I want an aircraft that is 'buildable' >> preferably in metal maybe as a plans built, it must be powered by >> either a Rotax 912 or possibly a Jabriu 3300. Weight carrying is more >> important than speed and it must be able to operate from a 500/600 >> meter grass strip. I know that some of the zenair range fit the bill. >> >> Regards >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309021#309021 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.