---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/20/10: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:12 AM - Re: 650 Canopy upgrade question (special4) 2. 05:52 AM - Re: 650 Canopy upgrade question (dfmoeller) 3. 07:03 AM - Weights (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 4. 08:06 AM - Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance (Dave J) 5. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance (jeyoung65@aol.com) 6. 09:18 AM - Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance (DaveG601XL) 7. 10:16 AM - Re: 650 Canopy upgrade question (Scotsman) 8. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance (Jim Belcher) 9. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance (Jim Belcher) 10. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance (Bryan Martin) 11. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance (FLYaDIVE) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:41 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 650 Canopy upgrade question From: "special4" Hey Guys, The instrument panel size has been changed. If you have an older 601xl serial # the panel is 16mm longer, then the newer ones (incl the 650) Peter -------- Sportsflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309506#309506 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 650 Canopy upgrade question From: "dfmoeller" Could you be a bit more specific as to exactly what is 16mm longer? I'm not quite following this conversation, but since I am soon to put a panel in my fuselage, I'd like to know the options. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309510#309510 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:29 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: Weights Dave, I just weighed my 601 XL with the upgrades. Right wheel was 272 Left is 290 ( landing & Taxi lights near tip ) and 241 on the nose gear ( total 797 - no wheel pants.) I worked up the C.G. In both mm. and inches. I do not know which way your main gear is installed but your weights look o.k. If I use full fuel and put 2 - 170 lb. people in the gross weight would be 1323 with wheel pants and NO baggage. With the gear turned forward the C.G. is about 14.5" AFT Datum. Before I reversed the gear I had to be careful of going Aft C.G. with a heavy passenger and low fuel. bobby Jacksonville, Fl. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance From: "Dave J" Thanks to all for your comments. Let me add to my original post. I would like to be able to invite an average male for a two hour flight in my 601xl. 10 pds of whatever in the baggage compartment. I am 165 pds average male 185 baggage 10 2 12 gal tanks my weights and measurements are: Rt main 275 pds , arm 668 lft main 278 pds, arm 673 Nose 204 pds arm -488 I have been crunching the numbers with Gary Ray's EXCEL spreadsheet at http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309529#309529 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance From: jeyoung65@aol.com How did you come up with right main gear arm of 668 and 673 for the left m ain gear? Are the main gears located at at differance distance from the wi ng's leading edge? Jerry of Ga. -----Original Message----- From: Dave J Sent: Fri, Aug 20, 2010 10:07 am Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance Thanks to all for your comments. Let me add to my original post. I would like to be able to invite an average male for a two hour flight in my 01xl. 10 pds of whatever in the baggage compartment. I am 165 pds verage male 185 aggage 10 2 12 gal tanks my weights and measurements are: Rt main 275 pds , arm 668 ft main 278 pds, arm 673 ose 204 pds arm -488 I have been crunching the numbers with Gary Ray's EXCEL spreadsheet at ttp://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm Dave ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309529#309529 -= - The Zenith-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:25 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance From: "DaveG601XL" Dave, I compared both your main and nose gear measurements to mine and they are all 45mm (1.8") or so more aft than what I measured on my 601XL. Per my W&B sheet from ZAC, the datum is defined as a "plumb line from wing leading edge at Nose Rib #4." Are you absolutely sure of your measurements? I agree that the numbers you have posted show a serious aft CG problem, but I am wondering about the gear location dimensions. Please re-check using plumb bob with the top longeron level, tires inflated, hanger doors closed and on a flat surface. Have someone else do an independent measurement and see if both your numbers agree. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 Upgraded 3/19/10 150+ hours and climbing! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309538#309538 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:35 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 650 Canopy upgrade question From: "Scotsman" Are you sure that it is not the other way round? the new 650 skin is too long for the XL set up that I have...j -------- Cell +27 83 675 0815 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309544#309544 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:41 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance I can't speak for Dave, but differences such as these are not uncommon, even for certificated aircraft. This is a difference of .7%. This kind of a difference can be due to minor inaccuracies in the scales used. It can be due to minor human errors in measurement. Two sides of a plane rarely weigh the exact same amount. One side of the plane may actually be 5 pounds heavier than the other side. In my aircraft, the left side has the landing lights and pilot static system in it. I suspect, when I finish, I'll see it slightly heavier than the other side. On Friday 20 August 2010 10:24:36 you wrote: > How did you come up with right main gear arm of 668 and 673 for the left > main gear? Are the main gears located at at differance distance from the > wing's leading edge? Jerry of Ga. ======================================= Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager ======================================= ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:17 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance Woops! My bad ...I see you said moment arm, not weight. Sorry about that! On Friday 20 August 2010 14:18:44 you wrote: > > I can't speak for Dave, but differences such as these are not uncommon, > even for certificated aircraft. > > This is a difference of .7%. This kind of a difference can be due to minor > inaccuracies in the scales used. It can be due to minor human errors in > measurement. > > Two sides of a plane rarely weigh the exact same amount. One side of the > plane may actually be 5 pounds heavier than the other side. > > In my aircraft, the left side has the landing lights and pilot static > system in it. I suspect, when I finish, I'll see it slightly heavier than > the other side. > > On Friday 20 August 2010 10:24:36 you wrote: > > How did you come up with right main gear arm of 668 and 673 for the left > > main gear? Are the main gears located at at differance distance from the > > wing's leading edge? Jerry of Ga. > > ======================================= > Jim B. Belcher > BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science > A&P/IA > General Radio Telephone Certificate > Instrument Rated Pilot > Retired Aerospace Technical Manager > > ======================================= > -- ======================================= Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager ======================================= ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:46 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance If your measurements are correct, you do have a problem. With that load, you'll hit the aft limit after burning off just six gallons of fuel. Where is your battery located? Is there any installed equipment you can move forward/ On Aug 20, 2010, at 11:06 AM, Dave J wrote: > > Thanks to all for your comments. > > Let me add to my original post. > > I would like to be able to invite an average male for a two hour flight in my 601xl. 10 pds of whatever in the baggage compartment. > > I am 165 pds > average male 185 > baggage 10 > > 2 12 gal tanks > > my weights and measurements are: > > Rt main 275 pds , arm 668 > lft main 278 pds, arm 673 > Nose 204 pds arm -488 > > I have been crunching the numbers with Gary Ray's EXCEL spreadsheet at http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm > > Dave -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Post Mod Weight and Balance From: FLYaDIVE Jerry & Gaggle: I gather these numbers are in mm... And I think in inches. So this works out to just about 3/16"... THAT IS NOTHING! Very easy to be off that much and I think the guy did a GREAT job of measuring. As stated before it is VERY easy to be off in wheel weight. I worked on a RV6 that had 50 pounds difference between wheels. Why? Not sure but there was an auto pilot with a huge servo motor. Barry On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Jim Belcher wrote: > > I can't speak for Dave, but differences such as these are not uncommon, > even > for certificated aircraft. > > This is a difference of .7%. This kind of a difference can be due to minor > inaccuracies in the scales used. It can be due to minor human errors in > measurement. > > Two sides of a plane rarely weigh the exact same amount. One side of the > plane > may actually be 5 pounds heavier than the other side. > > In my aircraft, the left side has the landing lights and pilot static > system > in it. I suspect, when I finish, I'll see it slightly heavier than the > other > side. > > > On Friday 20 August 2010 10:24:36 you wrote: > > How did you come up with right main gear arm of 668 and 673 for the left > > main gear? Are the main gears located at at differance distance from the > > wing's leading edge? Jerry of Ga. > > ======================================= > Jim B. Belcher > BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science > A&P/IA > General Radio Telephone Certificate > Instrument Rated Pilot > Retired Aerospace Technical Manager > > ======================================= > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.