Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:21 AM - Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused (Dave Disney)
2. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused (Carlos Sa)
3. 06:54 AM - Re: Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused (Jerry)
4. 07:36 AM - Re: Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused (Larry McFarland)
5. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused (Jim Belcher)
6. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused (Larry McFarland)
7. 11:56 AM - Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused (Pete54)
8. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused (Clive Richards)
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused |
Thank you to all of you who have replied both on and off list.
I have contacted the South UK agent for the Zodiac and had an interesting discussion
with him about the various models. Two things have come out of that.
1 In the UK our LAA will not allow the use of the aluminium undercarriage due to
its weight, so an XL can only be built using a composite undercarriage as it
used to be. They are currently working to resolve this as the composite gear
has different mountings and was supplied by CZAW so a new supplier is needed.
2 In the UK an XL is only certified up to 560Kg MAUW - this is a big loss of useful
load.
In the light of the above I am concentrating my efforts towards the HDS. If I go
ahead with this I have to decide between tri gear and taildragger - anybody
any thoughts.
Also - would it be possible to fit a 650 canopy on an HDS - has anyone done this
yet?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309969#309969
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused |
Michael Herder is doing just that:
*http://tinyurl.com/237a835*
Carlos
*CH601-HD, plans
*
On 24 August 2010 06:20, Dave Disney <davedisney@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Thank you to all of you who have replied both on and off list.
>
> I have contacted the South UK agent for the Zodiac and had an interesting
> discussion with him about the various models. Two things have come out of
> that.
>
> 1 In the UK our LAA will not allow the use of the aluminium undercarriage
> due to its weight, so an XL can only be built using a composite
> undercarriage as it used to be. They are currently working to resolve this
> as the composite gear has different mountings and was supplied by CZAW so a
> new supplier is needed.
>
> 2 In the UK an XL is only certified up to 560Kg MAUW - this is a big loss
> of useful load.
>
> In the light of the above I am concentrating my efforts towards the HDS. If
> I go ahead with this I have to decide between tri gear and taildragger -
> anybody any thoughts.
>
> Also - would it be possible to fit a 650 canopy on an HDS - has anyone done
> this yet?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309969#309969
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused |
Here is a link to a photo of Mike Herder's HD with 650 canopy from the
zenith.aero site.
Jerry
http://www.zenith.aero/photo/moving-day?xg_source=activity
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 3:20 AM, Dave Disney wrote:
> Also - would it be possible to fit a 650 canopy on an HDS - has anyone
> done this yet?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused |
Hi Carlos,
I'd stick with the tri-gear. There's little loss in airspeed, but a lot
of control on the ground with the steerable nose gear.
The idea of putting some of the landing and rolling impacts at the tail,
climbing into and out of a tail dragger pose some sobering
thoughts. The airframe is light to begin with. It's not like a steel
tube structure and I don't think the tail dragger option is a great
compromise. I find steering positive and certain with nose gear. I land
on the mains and roll out well before the nose
gear settles to touch. Take off is easy with elevator authority raising
the nose gear quickly, the roll out to take off is more effective
than the tail.dragger. The tail dragger you have to either three-point
off or raise the tail and then lift off.
Guess that I'm biased?
Regards,
Larry McFarland 601HDS and loving it.
macsmachine.com
Carlos Sa wrote:
> Michael Herder is doing just that:
>
> *http://tinyurl.com/237a835*
>
> Carlos
> *CH601-HD, plans
> *
> On 24 August 2010 06:20, Dave Disney <davedisney@yahoo.co.uk
> <mailto:davedisney@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> <davedisney@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:davedisney@yahoo.co.uk>>
>
> Thank you to all of you who have replied both on and off list.
>
> I have contacted the South UK agent for the Zodiac and had an
> interesting discussion with him about the various models. Two
> things have come out of that.
>
> 1 In the UK our LAA will not allow the use of the aluminium
> undercarriage due to its weight, so an XL can only be built using
> a composite undercarriage as it used to be. They are currently
> working to resolve this as the composite gear has different
> mountings and was supplied by CZAW so a new supplier is needed.
>
> 2 In the UK an XL is only certified up to 560Kg MAUW - this is a
> big loss of useful load.
>
> In the light of the above I am concentrating my efforts towards
> the HDS. If I go ahead with this I have to decide between tri gear
> and taildragger - anybody any thoughts.
>
> Also - would it be possible to fit a 650 canopy on an HDS - has
> anyone done this yet?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309969#309969
>
>
> *
> *
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused |
I guess I'd say there's no such thing as a free lunch. Weight is important,
and so is ease of takeoff/landing.
I'm building an XL as a tri-gear, but I entertained doing it as a tail dragger
very seriously. The deciding factors were being on a mountain strip with a lot
of crosswinds, and wanting to build an airplane that my wife could fly easily.
On Tuesday 24 August 2010 09:15:08 you wrote:
>
> Hi Carlos,
> I'd stick with the tri-gear. There's little loss in airspeed, but a lot
> of control on the ground with the steerable nose gear.
> The idea of putting some of the landing and rolling impacts at the tail,
> climbing into and out of a tail dragger pose some sobering
> thoughts. The airframe is light to begin with. It's not like a steel
> tube structure and I don't think the tail dragger option is a great
> compromise. I find steering positive and certain with nose gear. I land
> on the mains and roll out well before the nose
> gear settles to touch. Take off is easy with elevator authority raising
> the nose gear quickly, the roll out to take off is more effective
> than the tail.dragger. The tail dragger you have to either three-point
> off or raise the tail and then lift off.
> Guess that I'm biased?
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
=======================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused |
Hi Carlos,
I'd stick with the tri-gear. There's little loss in airspeed, but a lot
of control on the ground with the steerable nose gear.
The idea of putting some of the landing and rolling impacts at the tail,
climbing into and out of a tail dragger pose some sobering
thoughts. The airframe is light to begin with. It's not like a steel
tube structure and I don't think the tail dragger option is a great
compromise. I find steering positive and certain with nose gear. I land
on the mains and roll out well before the nose
gear settles to touch. Take off is easy with elevator authority raising
the nose gear quickly, the roll out to take off is more effective
than the tail.dragger. The tail dragger you have to either three-point
off or raise the tail and then lift off.
Guess that I'm biased?
Regards,
Larry McFarland 601HDS and loving it.
macsmachine.com
Carlos Sa wrote:
> Michael Herder is doing just that:
>
> *http://tinyurl.com/237a835*
>
> Carlos
> *CH601-HD, plans
> *
> On 24 August 2010 06:20, Dave Disney <davedisney@yahoo.co.uk
> <mailto:davedisney@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> <davedisney@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:davedisney@yahoo.co.uk>>
>
> Thank you to all of you who have replied both on and off list.
>
> I have contacted the South UK agent for the Zodiac and had an
> interesting discussion with him about the various models. Two
> things have come out of that.
>
> 1 In the UK our LAA will not allow the use of the aluminium
> undercarriage due to its weight, so an XL can only be built using
> a composite undercarriage as it used to be. They are currently
> working to resolve this as the composite gear has different
> mountings and was supplied by CZAW so a new supplier is needed.
>
> 2 In the UK an XL is only certified up to 560Kg MAUW - this is a
> big loss of useful load.
>
> In the light of the above I am concentrating my efforts towards
> the HDS. If I go ahead with this I have to decide between tri gear
> and taildragger - anybody any thoughts.
>
> Also - would it be possible to fit a 650 canopy on an HDS - has
> anyone done this yet?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309969#309969
>
>
> *
> *
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused |
Before my xl I owned an HD with taildragger gear and an O-200. A very tame taildragger
and sufficiently rugged to have spent all its life (over 600 hrs) on
rough grass strips.
Of all the taildraggers I have flown it was by far the least likely to bite.
Fitting the 650 canopy should be a fairly straight forward mod - even under the
LAA system.
There is an HDS based at my airfield and generally I am somewhat unimpressed.
It is not that much faster than an hd but it climbs poorly (with an 80hp Rotax)
and it glides like a brick. As a taildragger I suspect it would be a poor choice.
I've heard they are very different with vortex generators - but the LAA
regard them as the 'work of the deveil' and so getting approval would be a real
challenge.
--------
Pete Morris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310021#310021
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused |
Dave
Note the HD & HDS MAUW in UK is 1200 lbs i.e. 544 KG. but will have a useful
load with a Rotax up front.
Their is a HD tail dragger for sale at Sleap see LAA Mag but it has a heavy
Lycoming up front, the owner may be willing to give you information on tail
draggers.
Clive
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Disney" <davedisney@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 11:20 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac - 601 hd/hds, xl, 650 - Confused
>
> Thank you to all of you who have replied both on and off list.
>
> I have contacted the South UK agent for the Zodiac and had an interesting
> discussion with him about the various models. Two things have come out of
> that.
>
> 1 In the UK our LAA will not allow the use of the aluminium undercarriage
> due to its weight, so an XL can only be built using a composite
> undercarriage as it used to be. They are currently working to resolve this
> as the composite gear has different mountings and was supplied by CZAW so
> a new supplier is needed.
>
> 2 In the UK an XL is only certified up to 560Kg MAUW - this is a big loss
> of useful load.
>
> In the light of the above I am concentrating my efforts towards the HDS.
> If I go ahead with this I have to decide between tri gear and
> taildragger - anybody any thoughts.
>
> Also - would it be possible to fit a 650 canopy on an HDS - has anyone
> done this yet?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309969#309969
>
>
>
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