---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/16/10: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:36 PM - Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems () 2. 01:50 PM - Re: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems (George Swinford) 3. 02:12 PM - Re: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems (Larry McFarland) 4. 02:17 PM - Re: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems (Jim Belcher) 5. 02:43 PM - Email addresses compromised (Jim Belcher) 6. 04:12 PM - Re: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems () 7. 04:24 PM - Re: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems (FLYaDIVE) 8. 05:22 PM - Re: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems (Jeff) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:02 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems Folks; If someone understands why Zenith uses flush blind rivits and reforms them in the riviting process to a 'domed head' rivit, please elaborate on the reasons.It just seems to me (yes, it's true, I'm a noobe and haven't started a plane yet) that it would be much simpler to just use domed head pull rivits - or maybe that's a dumb assumption. Thanks in advance. -- Keith ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:17 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems Hello, Keith: I remember reading Chris Heintz' explanation of his use of modified Avex rivets, some years back. He had a good reason for doing so. I'm sure a call to the factory would get you the information. Perhaps it's in an old issue of Zenith News. George Swinford \ ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 1:28 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems > > Folks; > If someone understands why Zenith uses flush blind rivits and reforms them > in the riviting process to a 'domed head' rivit, please elaborate on the > reasons.It just seems to me (yes, it's true, I'm a noobe and haven't > started a plane yet) that it would be much simpler to just use domed head > pull rivits - or maybe that's a dumb assumption. > Thanks in advance. > > -- Keith > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:10 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems Hi Keith, The domed heads have advantage as the head is drawn from a recess head to the domed condition. The rivet grips aluminum better long term as the strength is increased during the draw. The aircraft is not a fast destination plane in general terms. The domed heads don't add drag to any extent for the speeds we require, at least 150 mph or less. The thin materials that are used in Zenith aircraft would also look excessively bumpy between flush rivets. I used .020 and .025 to get around the issue and improved surfaces in the sheet aluminum. This is not uncommon even in flush riveted standard aircraft either if you look closely. Repair of pulled rivets is considerably easier. Poorly set pulled rivets can easily be drilled out where dimpled flush rivets as solid types present more serious issues for repair. Once you get into it, you realize the rivets don't really subtract from the plane. If you feel flush rivets are a better solution, you should really consider building a RV or other type designed for them. Do expect to spend a lot more time in the build process. Best regards, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of klburris@frontiernet.net Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 3:28 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems Folks; If someone understands why Zenith uses flush blind rivits and reforms them in the riviting process to a 'domed head' rivit, please elaborate on the reasons.It just seems to me (yes, it's true, I'm a noobe and haven't started a plane yet) that it would be much simpler to just use domed head pull rivits - or maybe that's a dumb assumption. Thanks in advance. -- Keith ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:40 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems On Saturday 16 October 2010 15:28:13 you wrote: > > Folks; > If someone understands why Zenith uses flush blind rivits and reforms them > in the riviting process to a 'domed head' rivit, please elaborate on the > reasons.It just seems to me (yes, it's true, I'm a noobe and haven't > started a plane yet) that it would be much simpler to just use domed head > pull rivits - or maybe that's a dumb assumption. > Thanks in advance. My understanding was that flush blind rivets (specifically, Avex rivets) were used to simplify construction. The domed head was to increase the strength, by pulling the body of the rivet tighter. Mind you, I'm out of my area of expertise. That's just what I remember. -- ======================================= Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager ======================================= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:34 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Zenith-List: Email addresses compromised I've started receiving spam at the unique address I supplied this mailing list (again). That means someone has most likely gone through the list, and collected all the email addresses. As a result, I've changed the address I use to subscribe to this list, and deleted the old address. If you email me, please make not of the new address. ======================================= Jim B. Belcher BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA General Radio Telephone Certificate Instrument Rated Pilot Retired Aerospace Technical Manager ======================================= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:45 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems yes, there really is a reason. It was written somewhere in Zenith's pages, can't remember where. They recommend using countersunk rivets and the domed puller head so that, as the head is rounded, it work-hardens the rivet head. Makes it tougher. Paul R ----- Original Message ----- From: klburris@frontiernet.net To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 3:28 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems > Folks; If someone understands why Zenith uses flush blind rivits and reforms them in the riviting process to a 'domed head' rivit, please elaborate on the reasons.It just seems to me (yes, it's true, I'm a noobe and haven't started a plane yet) that it would be much simpler to just use domed head pull rivits - or maybe that's a dumb assumption. Thanks in advance. -- Keith http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems From: FLYaDIVE Good Question Keith; But WHY domed rivets at all! Dimple the skin and rib and use FLAT HEAD. That is what I would like to do --- I will be making the cal or sending an email to find out WHY NOT! Barry On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:28 PM, wrote: > > Folks; > If someone understands why Zenith uses flush blind rivits and reforms them > in the riviting process to a 'domed head' rivit, please elaborate on the > reasons.It just seems to me (yes, it's true, I'm a noobe and haven't started > a plane yet) that it would be much simpler to just use domed head pull > rivits - or maybe that's a dumb assumption. > Thanks in advance. > > -- Keith > > -- Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:57 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems At least part of it is that when the head is reshaped as it is pulled with the modified rivet head, the metal is work hardened and becomes stronger. Jeff Davidson -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Swinford Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 4:48 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems Hello, Keith: I remember reading Chris Heintz' explanation of his use of modified Avex rivets, some years back. He had a good reason for doing so. I'm sure a call to the factory would get you the information. Perhaps it's in an old issue of Zenith News. do not archive George Swinford \ ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 1:28 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Harbor Freight Riveter problems > > Folks; > If someone understands why Zenith uses flush blind rivits and reforms them > in the riviting process to a 'domed head' rivit, please elaborate on the > reasons.It just seems to me (yes, it's true, I'm a noobe and haven't > started a plane yet) that it would be much simpler to just use domed head > pull rivits - or maybe that's a dumb assumption. > Thanks in advance. > > -- Keith > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.