Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:33 AM - flaps (decorte johnny)
2. 02:45 PM - Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade (Jeffrey J Paris)
3. 03:03 PM - Re: flaps (JohnDRead@aol.com)
4. 03:49 PM - Re: Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade (Terry Phillips)
5. 04:57 PM - Re: Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade (george may)
6. 05:21 PM - Re: Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade (Ronald Steele)
7. 06:37 PM - Re: flaps (JohnDRead@aol.com)
8. 06:40 PM - Re: Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade (Paul Mulwitz)
Message 1
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hello everybody i am from france and fly the 701 //rotax912- 80 hp
since more then 1250 hr now
one question to the 701 pilots and owners
i like to modified my manual operated flaps to electric operated flaps
if posibli i like to have some comments from the 701 flyers and also
from people who have done this modification on the 701
ps sorry for the bad englisch
decorte johnny / france
http://www.lafermeaquatique.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade |
Hello Zenith Comunity,
=C2-
Today I had my friend George an experienced RV-6 builder come over to my han
ger and help me set rivets for my CH601XL upgrade project. =C2-We were usi
ng a 3X rivet gun and a 2.5 lb. bucking bar we had little problem shooting t
he solid MS20470AD-5-11 rivets on the center spar. =C2-However, when we tu
rned our attention to the -6/3/16" Diameter rivets for the wing spar upgrade
we were having a difficult time making the shop heads the correct diameter
and the manufactured head on the rivet was beat up as well.
=C2-
Overall, the rivets were not acceptable to us: =C2-Anyways we took our que
stions over to our local DAR friend and he advised that probably a 4X and mo
re likely a 5X gun matched with at least a 4-5 lb. bucking bar would do the
job satisfactorily. =C2-Well my problem lies in the fact that I do not hav
e a 4or 5X gun available and the puneumatic rivet squeezer we borrowed from
the DAR could not cleat the newly installed spar angle for the mod. =C2-
=C2-
I guess we are looking at ordering a mess of bolt hardware from ACSpruce if
I can't find an easier and acceptable way to set these rivets; has anyone el
se out there had the same problem? =C2-Are your rivets within acceptable a
ircraft grade standards? =C2-I'd be interested in finding out a bit more.
=C2-
Cheers,
=C2-
Jeff Paris =C2-CH601XL grounded for B Mods Jab 3300 =C2-#6-4839 had 300
fun filled hours until grounded
Message 3
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Bojour Johnny;
Look on the zenith site at the 750. The 750 flaps are
electric and there is a good picture of how it is done. do not archive.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade |
Jeff
I had the same problem with my 3X gun. Because my wing skins were not yet
riveted in place, I removed the ribs and used what I'd call a "pounder." to
set the rivets. It worked perfectly--until I got sloppy with the hammer and
dinged my spar web. After that, I used a piece of plywood to protect the
spar against my clumsiness. The borrowed pounder that I used is very
similar to pounding on an arbor press as suggested by Tony Bingelis
Metal Spar Assembly Tips, Sport Aviation, May 1993
Which can be found in the EAA site member's only area.
If you check my kitlog site, you'll see how I set the rivets.
If you cannot take your wing apart I think that a 4X or 5X gun is required
to set the rivets. I bought a 7# bucking bar from
http://www.clearairtools.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=93
but ultimately used the pounder, instead. Also, I concluded that the Zenair
supplied rivets were too short to produce shop head that met spec, so I
used longer rivets purchased from Spruce. My guess is that joints using the
Zenair supplied rivets (with shop heads that are either too small diameter
or too flat, take your choice) would be strong enough, but I was more
comfortable making sure that my rivets met mil specs.
Terry
At 05:41 PM 10/30/2010 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello Zenith Comunity,
>
>Today I had my friend George an experienced RV-6 builder come over to my
>hanger and help me set rivets for my CH601XL upgrade project. We were
>using a 3X rivet gun and a 2.5 lb. bucking bar we had little problem
>shooting the solid MS20470AD-5-11 rivets on the center spar. However,
>when we turned our attention to the -6/3/16" Diameter rivets for the wing
>spar upgrade we were having a difficult time making the shop heads the
>correct diameter and the manufactured head on the rivet was beat up as well.
>
>Overall, the rivets were not acceptable to us: Anyways we took our
>questions over to our local DAR friend and he advised that probably a 4X
>and more likely a 5X gun matched with at least a 4-5 lb. bucking bar would
>do the job satisfactorily. Well my problem lies in the fact that I do not
>have a 4or 5X gun available and the puneumatic rivet squeezer we borrowed
>from the DAR could not cleat the newly installed spar angle for the mod.
>
>I guess we are looking at ordering a mess of bolt hardware from ACSpruce
>if I can't find an easier and acceptable way to set these rivets; has
>anyone else out there had the same problem? Are your rivets within
>acceptable aircraft grade standards? I'd be interested in finding out a
>bit more.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jeff Paris CH601XL grounded for B Mods Jab 3300 #6-4839 had 300 fun
>filled hours until grounded
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade |
Jeff-
Sorry to hear you're having a tough time with the rivets. I finished my
upgrade this past April with about 320 hours on the airframe. We experienc
ed simila rissues initially. We ended up using about 8 pound bucking bar a
nd a 3x gun. My RV friend used the gun and I was on bucking bar. It still
took a lot of effort but we did get the rivets in spec even if some of the
heads were not as pretty as I'd like.
I've got about 40 hours on the upgrade and all is well-----definitely fee
l more solid.
George May
601XLB 912s ---369hours
From: jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade
Hello Zenith Comunity=2C
Today I had my friend George an experienced RV-6 builder come over to my ha
nger and help me set rivets for my CH601XL upgrade project. We were using
a 3X rivet gun and a 2.5 lb. bucking bar we had little problem shooting the
solid MS20470AD-5-11 rivets on the center spar. However=2C when we turned
our attention to the -6/3/16" Diameter rivets for the wing spar upgrade we
were having a difficult time making the shop heads the correct diameter an
d the manufactured head on the rivet was beat up as well.
Overall=2C the rivets were not acceptable to us: Anyways we took our quest
ions over to our local DAR friend and he advised that probably a 4X and mor
e likely a 5X gun matched with at least a 4-5 lb. bucking bar would do the
job satisfactorily. Well my problem lies in the fact that I do not have a
4or 5X gun available and the puneumatic rivet squeezer we borrowed from the
DAR could not cleat the newly installed spar angle for the mod.
I guess we are looking at ordering a mess of bolt hardware from ACSpruce if
I can't find an easier and acceptable way to set these rivets=3B has anyon
e else out there had the same problem? Are your rivets within acceptable a
ircraft grade standards? I'd be interested in finding out a bit more.
Cheers=2C
Jeff Paris CH601XL grounded for B Mods Jab 3300 #6-4839 had 300 fun fille
d hours until grounded
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade |
My wings aren't closed so I could just lay the spars on the table.
This doesn't apply if you are doing this on partially assembled wings.
At the suggestion of my EAA tech counsoler, here's what I did, and
they came out perfectly.
I used the 1 ton arbor press from Harbor Freight ($50) which my
counselor loaned me. I drilled the "table" to accept the rivet "cup".
Polish is the bottom of the press. Lay the spar on over the table
with the rivet head down in the "cup". Lower the press down onto the
rive and apply about as much pressure as you can and then hit with a
sledge. I used a 4 pounder. It takes 4 or 5 blows per rivet. I
screwed up two when I got in a hurry, but all the rest came out
perfectly. I'd say for someone with no experience, the is the
cheapest and most foolproof way to set these rivets.
Oh, I also bought a 1/4lb of 1" rivets and a rivet cutter from ACS and
used these for practice on Home Depot aluminum until I was confident
in the process.
Ron
On Oct 30, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Jeffrey J Paris wrote:
> Hello Zenith Comunity,
>
> Today I had my friend George an experienced RV-6 builder come over
> to my hanger and help me set rivets for my CH601XL upgrade project.
> We were using a 3X rivet gun and a 2.5 lb. bucking bar we had little
> problem shooting the solid MS20470AD-5-11 rivets on the center
> spar. However, when we turned our attention to the -6/3/16"
> Diameter rivets for the wing spar upgrade we were having a difficult
> time making the shop heads the correct diameter and the manufactured
> head on the rivet was beat up as well.
>
> Overall, the rivets were not acceptable to us: Anyways we took our
> questions over to our local DAR friend and he advised that probably
> a 4X and more likely a 5X gun matched with at least a 4-5 lb.
> bucking bar would do the job satisfactorily. Well my problem lies
> in the fact that I do not have a 4or 5X gun available and the
> puneumatic rivet squeezer we borrowed from the DAR could not cleat
> the newly installed spar angle for the mod.
>
> I guess we are looking at ordering a mess of bolt hardware from
> ACSpruce if I can't find an easier and acceptable way to set these
> rivets; has anyone else out there had the same problem? Are your
> rivets within acceptable aircraft grade standards? I'd be
> interested in finding out a bit more.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff Paris CH601XL grounded for B Mods Jab 3300 #6-4839 had 300
> fun filled hours until grounded
>
>
Message 7
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Johnny;
I have attached the 750 parts catalog which shows on page 9
how the linear actuator is connected to the flaps. It should not be difficult
to install a linear actuator to the flap actuator tube of the 701. I have
attached a picture of the 701 controls that should help. I think it should
be possible to remove the flap actuator tube and attach a linear actuator
to the same place that the actuator rod was connected to. do not archive.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
In a message dated 10/30/2010 9:35:00 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
sanyu@wanadoo.fr writes:
hello everybody i am from france and fly the 701 //rotax912- 80 hp since
more then 1250 hr now
one question to the 701 pilots and owners
i like to modified my manual operated flaps to electric operated flaps
if posibli i like to have some comments from the 701 flyers and also from
people who have done this modification on the 701
ps sorry for the bad englisch
decorte johnny / france
_http://www.lafermeaquatique.com_ (http://www.lafermeaquatique.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade |
Hi Jeff,
I didn't even try to do the rivets - just put in aircraft bolts and nuts
from A/S. I used AN4 (mostly -11 but some -12) bolts where the 3/16
rivets were and AN3 bolts where the smaller rivets were (Maybe AN3-11
but I'm not positive).
The bolts went pretty well. I realized the rivet holes made by Zenair
were much too oversized to use the same size bolts as the rivets so I
increased all of them one notch. The biggest problem was drilling and
reaming the holes where a drill wouldn't fit. I used a flexible
extension for the drill and found the extension would last if I used
very small increments on the drill size until reaching the final size.
Those holes I could ream without interference I did with a chucking
reamer. The rest I just used the right size drill and didn't worry
about the perfection of the hole interior
Good luck,
Paul
ready to close up second wing upgrade.
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J
Paris
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Question about Riveting tand the XL Upgrade
Hello Zenith Comunity,
Today I had my friend George an experienced RV-6 builder come over to my
hanger and help me set rivets for my CH601XL upgrade project. We were
using a 3X rivet gun and a 2.5 lb. bucking bar we had little problem
shooting the solid MS20470AD-5-11 rivets on the center spar. However,
when we turned our attention to the -6/3/16" Diameter rivets for the
wing spar upgrade we were having a difficult time making the shop heads
the correct diameter and the manufactured head on the rivet was beat up
as well.
Overall, the rivets were not acceptable to us: Anyways we took our
questions over to our local DAR friend and he advised that probably a 4X
and more likely a 5X gun matched with at least a 4-5 lb. bucking bar
would do the job satisfactorily. Well my problem lies in the fact that
I do not have a 4or 5X gun available and the puneumatic rivet squeezer
we borrowed from the DAR could not cleat the newly installed spar angle
for the mod.
I guess we are looking at ordering a mess of bolt hardware from ACSpruce
if I can't find an easier and acceptable way to set these rivets; has
anyone else out there had the same problem? Are your rivets within
acceptable aircraft grade standards? I'd be interested in finding out a
bit more.
Cheers,
Jeff Paris CH601XL grounded for B Mods Jab 3300 #6-4839 had 300 fun
filled hours until grounded
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