Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - Re: Re: Upgrades or lack there of! (Paul Mulwitz)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: Upgrades or lack there of! (Scotsman)
3. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Upgrades or lack there of! (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
4. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: Upgrades or lack there of! (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
5. 09:02 AM - Re: Upgrades or lack there of! (Scotsman)
6. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Upgrades or lack there of! (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 12:40 PM - Re: Upgrades or lack there of! ()
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Upgrades or lack there of! |
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for posting the pictures. I had no trouble accessing them, and I
don't think I have a facebook account.
I'm sure I didn't get all the questionable workmanship from looking at the
pictures. It is just too tricky to interpret them. I did notice a lot of
really ugly work. However, I also noticed some stuff that was nicer than the
work I did. One example is the new holes in the rear channel for the weight
bar. My holes are much more ragged than the nice square ones in the
pictures. Of course my holes have the required rounded corners instead of
the sharp ones in the pictures.
I do have some sympathy for the owner of the plane with regard to the crease
in the rear of the aileron. I have no idea how to fix such a problem and I
suspect we all have, or will have, that sort of problem.
I don't know enough to inspect this plane from the pictures. Still, I'm
sure you are correct when you say there are serious problems of workmanship.
If you ever get the time I would like to read any detailed comments you can
make on a picture by picture basis.
Just one editorial comment -- I wonder at the decision to have builders
start to learn setting solid rivets by reworking the main spars. This was
supposed to be a skill that was not needed by a builder to complete a Zodiac
XL (or any other Zenith plane?). It isn't covered in the builder's manual
and I don't think the update included any instructions for this either. Of
course, we all have copies of AC43.13, don't we?
Thanks again,
Paul
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 10:06 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Here is a link to all the photos...
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=39343&id=100000256688371&l=3ecaba3433
They are on face book so you will need a face book profile I think. I would
post them to Zenith Aero but it takes too long.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 12:22:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Afterfxllc@aol.com writes:
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have
lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade
yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the
shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I
would venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how
to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show
what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be
worse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will need
to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old
rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Upgrades or lack there of! |
Does make you feel better about your own work. I think my standard of work is
average.
There were some photos where, worryingly, I cannot identify what is incorrect (like
the one of the wing walk material), can you post the problem for the less
obvious ones?
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322919#322919
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Upgrades or lack there of! |
Paul
If I get time I might add captions to the photo's but a new photo a day
with a caption won't overwhelm everyone and it doesn't make the email too big
to send.
As for the rear spar cut out. It had a patch piece over the huge hole that
you see there and even the patch piece wasn't the greatest.
When I cut mine out I use a drimmel tool with a cutoff wheel and go
slightly undersize then widen as needed with a file to clean everything up.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 3:09:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
psm@att.net writes:
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for posting the pictures. I had no trouble accessing them, and I
don't think I have a facebook account.
I'm sure I didn't get all the questionable workmanship from looking at the
pictures. It is just too tricky to interpret them. I did notice a lot
of really ugly work. However, I also noticed some stuff that was nicer than
the work I did. One example is the new holes in the rear channel for the
weight bar. My holes are much more ragged than the nice square ones in the
pictures. Of course my holes have the required rounded corners instead of
the sharp ones in the pictures.
I do have some sympathy for the owner of the plane with regard to the
crease in the rear of the aileron. I have no idea how to fix such a problem
and I suspect we all have, or will have, that sort of problem.
I don't know enough to inspect this plane from the pictures. Still, I'm
sure you are correct when you say there are serious problems of
workmanship.
If you ever get the time I would like to read any detailed comments you
can make on a picture by picture basis.
Just one editorial comment -- I wonder at the decision to have builders
start to learn setting solid rivets by reworking the main spars. This was
supposed to be a skill that was not needed by a builder to complete a Zodiac
XL (or any other Zenith plane?). It isn't covered in the builder's manual
and I don't think the update included any instructions for this either.
Of course, we all have copies of AC43.13, don't we?
Thanks again,
Paul
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 10:06 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Here is a link to all the photos...
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=39343&id=100000256688371&l=3ecaba3433
They are on face book so you will need a face book profile I think. I
would post them to Zenith Aero but it takes too long.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 12:22:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Afterfxllc@aol.com writes:
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have
lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade
yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the
shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I would
venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how
to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show
what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be worse
off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will
need to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old
rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
< - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
http://forums.matronics.com
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Upgrades or lack there of! |
The one with the wing walks were showing the huge gap in the flaps.....
with no stops. The flaps are so sloppy they move at least 1 to 11/2 inches.
In a message dated 12/11/2010 8:34:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jaroberts@bdo.co.za writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scotsman" <jaroberts@bdo.co.za>
Does make you feel better about your own work. I think my standard of
work is average.
There were some photos where, worryingly, I cannot identify what is
incorrect (like the one of the wing walk material), can you post the problem for
the less obvious ones?
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322919#322919
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Upgrades or lack there of! |
Thanks I was looking at the wing walk area itself. I haven't built the wings yet
so don't really know what it should look like yet.
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322937#322937
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Upgrades or lack there of! |
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the comment on the cutoff wheel. I never thought of doing it
that way. I figured the wheel would fill up with aluminum almost instantly.
I reserve use of the wonderful cutoff wheels for steel work. (Have you
tried the new quick-change reinforced wheels?)
I usually do that sort of job with some kind of drill (maybe a hole saw)
followed with snips. Then I use a cone shaped rotary file in a Dremel to
form the general shape (i.e. I cut to the line marked with a Sharpie). The
cone shape works really well - you can use the point end for slow cutting
and the larger diameter base of the cone for quicker metal removal.
Sometimes a hand file gets in the final act to finish it all off -
especially the burrs on the edge.
I don't know how to judge the patch piece in the picture. Still, I
understand you should never have a sharp inside corner in sheet metal. This
tends to focus any forces and tear the metal in the corner to start a
possibly long tear in the metal. This problem is fixed with a round feature
at the corner that can be made with either a drill bit (before cutting the
main hole) or a rat-tail file.
Paul
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Paul
If I get time I might add captions to the photo's but a new photo a day with
a caption won't overwhelm everyone and it doesn't make the email too big to
send.
As for the rear spar cut out. It had a patch piece over the huge hole that
you see there and even the patch piece wasn't the greatest.
When I cut mine out I use a drimmel tool with a cutoff wheel and go slightly
undersize then widen as needed with a file to clean everything up.
Jeff
==================================================
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Upgrades or lack there of! |
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|