Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:49 AM - 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (Scotsman)
2. 06:47 AM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (Steve Freeman)
3. 07:44 AM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (Scotsman)
4. 08:04 AM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (Carlos Sa)
5. 08:31 AM - Jabiru Engine Seminar (Pete Krotje)
6. 09:45 AM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (Craig Payne)
7. 11:13 AM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (Gary Ray)
8. 11:25 AM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (Jeff Davidson)
9. 02:51 PM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade ()
10. 06:33 PM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (PatrickW)
11. 07:00 PM - Help please (Randy L. Thwing)
12. 07:26 PM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (Terry Phillips)
13. 08:58 PM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (Scotsman)
14. 09:40 PM - Re: Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (Steve Freeman)
15. 10:43 PM - Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade (chuck960)
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| Subject: | 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
Hi List,
Just wanted to see what people experience is with fitting the 650 style canopy.
I have just attempted this and ended up with a nice cracked canopy as there
is no way that the shape of the canopy roll will adhere to the shape of the aluminum
tube with undue stress. I have heard that other people had experienced
this and had more joy with Todd's Canopies.
Anyway my question was whether the canopy feels flimsy or not when installed correctly?
Anyone's experience in this area?
Second question...on lifting the canopy it springs inwards slightly meaning that
it will not close properly as it hits the top of the latch mechanism. Anyone
had this problem and what was your work around?
For your information - I have not yet installed the front canopy aluminum tube
yet but at this point the canopy seems excessively fragile and I am not sure that
this single piece will sufficiently firm up the canopy.
Any comments would be appreciated.
James
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325410#325410
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| Subject: | 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
Don H.
Why don't you take this one! :) I know how much you loved installing your
canopy.
James, I have never heard of "Todd's Canopies" who/where are they located?
Thank you,
Steve Freeman
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scotsman
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 5:47 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade
Hi List,
Just wanted to see what people experience is with fitting the 650 style
canopy. I have just attempted this and ended up with a nice cracked canopy
as there is no way that the shape of the canopy roll will adhere to the
shape of the aluminum tube with undue stress. I have heard that other
people had experienced this and had more joy with Todd's Canopies.
Anyway my question was whether the canopy feels flimsy or not when installed
correctly? Anyone's experience in this area?
Second question...on lifting the canopy it springs inwards slightly meaning
that it will not close properly as it hits the top of the latch mechanism.
Anyone had this problem and what was your work around?
For your information - I have not yet installed the front canopy aluminum
tube yet but at this point the canopy seems excessively fragile and I am not
sure that this single piece will sufficiently firm up the canopy.
Any comments would be appreciated.
James
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325410#325410
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| Subject: | Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
Hi Steve, these guy I think...http://www.toddscanopies.com/
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325428#325428
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| Subject: | Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
As far as I know, Todd is now the ZAC official supplier of canopies - and
you can get them only through ZAC. Todd will not sell a Zodie canopy
directly...
Maybe James' is an old ZAC version, before this agreement was put in place?
I am going from memory here, you might find the original post in the
archives.
Happy 2011
Carlos
On 3 January 2011 09:43, Steve Freeman <steve.freeman@syntaxds.com> wrote:
> steve.freeman@syntaxds.com>
>
> Don H.
>
> Why don't you take this one! :) I know how much you loved installing your
> canopy.
>
> James, I have never heard of "Todd's Canopies" who/where are they located?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Steve Freeman
>
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| Subject: | Jabiru Engine Seminar |
There are still two openings in the Marana AZ engine seminar starting this
Thursday, January 6th. If anyone wants to attend just give a call here at
931-680-2800 or just come to Marana on Thursday morning.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
931-680-2800
www.usjabiru.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
Correct, all the 650 canopies are from Todd's. As to fragility I was able to
build my pre-650, pre-Todd's 601XL canopy without cracking by building
templates (front and back) so I could bend my bows to match the natural
shape of the unrolled canopy to within a 1/4 of an inch. Also I cranked the
heat up in my garage till I was sweating.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade
As far as I know, Todd is now the ZAC official supplier of canopies - and
you can get them only through ZAC. Todd will not sell a Zodie canopy
directly...
Maybe James' is an old ZAC version, before this agreement was put in place?
I am going from memory here, you might find the original post in the
archives.
Happy 2011
Carlos
On 3 January 2011 09:43, Steve Freeman <steve.freeman@syntaxds.com> wrote:
<steve.freeman@syntaxds.com>
Don H.
Why don't you take this one! :) I know how much you loved installing your
canopy.
James, I have never heard of "Todd's Canopies" who/where are they located?
Thank you,
Steve Freeman
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
James
I used 1/2 inch copper rolled plumbing to make temporary templates to get
the fit of the
the unrolled canopy to airframe match up. Then bent the aluminum to match.
Also, on mine the edge clearance of some of the rear 5/16" mounting holes
were within 7 mm of the edge.
I changed this by making new aluminum flashing side rails that were slightly
higher than the original 75mm.
Mine were made at 95 mm that made the closest edge distance 27 mm. I
drilled the 5/16" holes with a step drill after heating the canopy indoors
over a warm air heat register and applying very little pressure so the drill
bit would generate a little additional heat as it worked. It took about 10
seconds to drill each hole without mishap.
No cracks. In operation since Sept. 06.
As to the inward flexing of the canopy when open I installed a crossbar that
works very well and can be seen at
http://picasaweb.google.com/Papawobo/Variations#
This also provides protection for the canopy when open in a higher wind and
convenient closing.
Good Luck
Gary Ray, 601XL-B, WW 0.060 over Corvair Engine, Roy's 5th bearing, Falcon
Heads, 155 hrs TTAF
-----Original Message-----
From: Scotsman
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 7:46 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade
Hi List,
Just wanted to see what people experience is with fitting the 650 style
canopy. I have just attempted this and ended up with a nice cracked canopy
as there is no way that the shape of the canopy roll will adhere to the
shape of the aluminum tube with undue stress. I have heard that other
people had experienced this and had more joy with Todd's Canopies.
Anyway my question was whether the canopy feels flimsy or not when installed
correctly? Anyone's experience in this area?
Second question...on lifting the canopy it springs inwards slightly meaning
that it will not close properly as it hits the top of the latch mechanism.
Anyone had this problem and what was your work around?
For your information - I have not yet installed the front canopy aluminum
tube yet but at this point the canopy seems excessively fragile and I am not
sure that this single piece will sufficiently firm up the canopy.
Any comments would be appreciated.
James
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325410#325410
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
James,
Mine is an XL canopy on an HD model. It bows slightly outward. I put handles
on the inside to use to guide the canopy down onto the latch. I have seen other
planes with a horizontal bar across the aft part of the canopy itself to keep
the "spread" constant.
Jeff D.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: Scotsman <jaroberts@bdo.co.za>
>Sent: Jan 3, 2011 7:46 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade
>
>
>Hi List,
>
>Just wanted to see what people experience is with fitting the 650 style canopy.
I have just attempted this and ended up with a nice cracked canopy as there
is no way that the shape of the canopy roll will adhere to the shape of the aluminum
tube with undue stress. I have heard that other people had experienced
this and had more joy with Todd's Canopies.
>
>Anyway my question was whether the canopy feels flimsy or not when installed correctly?
Anyone's experience in this area?
>
>Second question...on lifting the canopy it springs inwards slightly meaning that
it will not close properly as it hits the top of the latch mechanism. Anyone
had this problem and what was your work around?
>
>For your information - I have not yet installed the front canopy aluminum tube
yet but at this point the canopy seems excessively fragile and I am not sure
that this single piece will sufficiently firm up the canopy.
>
>Any comments would be appreciated.
>
>James
>
>--------
>Cell +27 83 675 0815
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325410#325410
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
I bought two canopies (don't ask why) from Todd's Canopies down in
Florida. I scratch built my fuselage, and Todd's was a whole bunch
cheaper. I hear Todd's is now the official vendor to Zenith, and the
rumor is he no longer sells Zenith canopies direct. I will say he was a
veritable fountain of knowledge on canopies and cutting and fitting them
on the phone. He's sort of the Sensenich of canopies.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Freeman<mailto:steve.freeman@syntaxds.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:43 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade
<steve.freeman@syntaxds.com<mailto:steve.freeman@syntaxds.com>>
Don H.
Why don't you take this one! :) I know how much you loved installing
your
canopy.
James, I have never heard of "Todd's Canopies" who/where are they
located?
Thank you,
Steve Freeman
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@ma
tronics.com>
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scotsman
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 5:47 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade
<jaroberts@bdo.co.za<mailto:jaroberts@bdo.co.za>>
Hi List,
Just wanted to see what people experience is with fitting the 650
style
canopy. I have just attempted this and ended up with a nice cracked
canopy
as there is no way that the shape of the canopy roll will adhere to
the
shape of the aluminum tube with undue stress. I have heard that other
people had experienced this and had more joy with Todd's Canopies.
Anyway my question was whether the canopy feels flimsy or not when
installed
correctly? Anyone's experience in this area?
Second question...on lifting the canopy it springs inwards slightly
meaning
that it will not close properly as it hits the top of the latch
mechanism.
Anyone had this problem and what was your work around?
For your information - I have not yet installed the front canopy
aluminum
tube yet but at this point the canopy seems excessively fragile and I
am not
sure that this single piece will sufficiently firm up the canopy.
Any comments would be appreciated.
James
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325410#325410<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325410#325410>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
I put a 650 canopy on an XL fuselage. Here's pictures: http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/canopy-1
It wasn't easy, but I think the canopy is the hardest part anyways.
Never could get anywhere near a close fit between the plastic and the front top
skin. Had a gap big enough to put my arm through on each side, so I made a fiberglass
fairing to cover it. It actually came out quite nice.
In hindsight, I bet if the fit were better I'd have been tempted to put pressure
on it and would have ended up cracking it.....
I made new "hoops". Also made a fiberglass fairing to cover the "split" between
the front and rear sections, and made a single piece metal fairing for where
the aft canopy section. The two metal pieces that Zenith ships are nowhere near
close. Also had to modify the front top skin by cutting about an inch off
each side, and cutting off the "ears". Later I learned that the XL and the 650
are different in that area, and in all fairness I think I was one of the first
guys to order the 650 canopy for the XL so things may be better by now.
I do plan on redesigning the whole canopy at some point. Plenty of head room above,
but not so much head room "on the side". Long ways in the future, though,
but I've already got some ideas....
Knowing what I know now, if I could go back in time I think I would just do the
650 latch system and stick with the simpler one-piece XL style canopy.
- Pat
--------
Patrick Hoyt
601XL-b/650/BRS/Corvair
N63PZ - 99.999% done....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325508#325508
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Hello Listers:
I am trying to contact Builder David Mikesell of Petaluma, CA. Does
anyone have recent contact information?
I have a phone number of 209-224-4485 and a email address of
skyguynca@skyguynca.com but I get no replies from either.
He has contributed to these forums.
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
Hi James
You might take a look at what Mirko did with his canopy. I believe that he
used the original XL canopy. He added a new turtle deck, and cut the canopy
to fit. I believe that he has posted some photos on the ZBAG photo site, as
well as, a recent video on youtube.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtFpxzeCKkI>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtFpxzeCKkI
I think it looks great, and he tells me it seals up well. I might try
something similar.
Terry
At 04:46 AM 1/3/2011 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi List,
>
>Just wanted to see what people experience is with fitting the 650 style
>canopy. I have just attempted this and ended up with a nice cracked
>canopy as there is no way that the shape of the canopy roll will adhere to
>the shape of the aluminum tube with undue stress. I have heard that other
>people had experienced this and had more joy with Todd's Canopies.
>
>Anyway my question was whether the canopy feels flimsy or not when
>installed correctly? Anyone's experience in this area?
>
>Second question...on lifting the canopy it springs inwards slightly
>meaning that it will not close properly as it hits the top of the latch
>mechanism. Anyone had this problem and what was your work around?
>
>For your information - I have not yet installed the front canopy aluminum
>tube yet but at this point the canopy seems excessively fragile and I am
>not sure that this single piece will sufficiently firm up the canopy.
>
>Any comments would be appreciated.
>
>James
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
Thanks very much for the rapid replies guys. Unfortunately unless I want to buy
another canopy I cannot bend the hoops so I am stuck with what I have.
For me I think the solution lies with copying Patrick's approach which incidentally
looks far better than the original set up. Suppose I will have to learn
about fibreglassing!
FYI - My canopy is quite recent as the upgrade kit canopy kit is about 5 months
since I imported it. I am quite irritated by the canopy hoops. As far as I
can see Zenith does not specify that the hoops will have to be bent by the builder
otherwise why supply them pre-bent or at least supply instructions indicating
that bending has to take place. I would assume that Zenith bent the hoops
on a template and therefore the template must be incorrect.
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325524#325524
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| Subject: | Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
Hey there,
You are by far not the first person to lament the lack of fit for the tubes
to the canopy. My buddy Don who built a beautiful 601HDS said the Canopy
was by far the most difficult part of the plane. He still gripes about it
today and even has the templates he made to re-bend straight stock he had
purchased to get a better fit.
I am actually a little disappointed because I am now building a 650B and I
was hoping they had improved on the canopy...it does not seem that is the
case from all I have read today.
One point of caution...On the 601HDS I previously built...I tried and failed
(miserably) to create my own fiberglass front tilt based on George Pineo's
design. If I had the knowledge then that I have now I think I would have
done a far better job but I totally destroyed a canopy which played a major
role in my decision to sell my 95+% plus finished plane (now flying down
under in OZ!) to a flying group in Australia. After I effed up the canopy I
lost the heart to finish the plane even though all that was left was the
canopy, rigging, and re-wiring the panel. I think less than 100 hours but
there is more to the story and won't bore you all with the details!
MY point in telling you this is just to warn you to be very careful and take
your time. Learn how to do glass well before you start building molds on
your airframe. Try not to get frustrated and understand all of the other
builders seem to have gone through this.
ZAC really should do something about improving this set up but don't hold
your breath and good luck getting any useful information out of them.
But to be fair...If your fuselage is built even a little bit "off plans" it
would be virtually impossible for ZAC to provide a perfect fit canopy.
Because of this, I think it might be an unspoken truism that we are forced
to fit the canopy to our individual airframes.
Just my two cents - for whatever it is worth.
Steve (650B - 902AL) Freeman
Working on Fuselage
I have the factory made upgraded spars. They are a great deal "beefier"
than what I installed in my HDS.
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 650 Canopy/650 Canopy Upgrade |
Whats wrong with you guys? My 650 canopy fits quite nicely. Looks good too.
Well actually it is the second plexy as I ruined the first one, (Expensive mistake)
and I broke one of the hoops and had to bend a new one from scratch. And
it's not really finished yet as it's clecoed together.
In hindsight I think the one piece of information I needed that may have enabled
me to do it right the first time was this. THE HOOPS MUST BE BENT TO MATCH
THE NATURAL SHAPE OF THE PLEXYGLASS. The hoops in my kit were not even close
in my opinion and I thought the plastic would give a little. Not!!
Also there in only one way it fits. I mean you can't trim too much off one end
and make it up on the other. But it does fit well if done correctly.
I was upset but maybe it's just that I needed a practice piece to figure out how
to do it well.
I wonder how many hours ZAC spent on the phone over the years trying to explain
how to do a canopy.
A few hours spent putting together some instructions would have been time well
spent.
Chuck
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