---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/13/11: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Final Report on the Markermeer accident has been published (Don Honabach) 2. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: Final Report on the Markermeer accident has been published (Paul Mulwitz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:09 AM PST US From: Don Honabach Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Final Report on the Markermeer accident has been published >> ...where I could make predictable good landings After almost 200 hours in my 601HDS, I'm still a bit surprised when I tip-toe onto the run way, but it does tend to happen much more often now which is nice. When I do, there is nothing like it! >> On the second day he blew a tire landing at Ogden Utah I wonder if he was landing with the toe breaks on? I went through a set of mains really quickly during my first 50 hours because of having my feet positioned too high and inadvertently landing with brakes on. Never realized it and just thought the tires were wearing really quickly and then someone mentioned to me that there was smoke coming from the tires when I landed and I finally figured out what I was doing... Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 7:43 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Final Report on the Markermeer accident has been published All good points, Ron. I finally lost possession of a S-LSA I've had on a lease for nearly two years. I used it to get my flying skills back up to speed after some 25 years on the ground. It took me something like 30 or 40 hours to get to the point where I could make predictable good landings. I don't think there was ever a safety risk, but to do a good job took skills I just didn't develop flying heavier airplanes. The new owner of the plane arrived here Friday night and on Saturday I tried to get him up to speed flying this plane. It was his first time in an LSA, but he had nearly 1000 hours and thought it would be a simple transition. I did my best (I'm not an instructor) and he felt confident enough to solo after about 3 hours observing me fly the plane and practicing his own flying. I wasn't really comfortable with him flying it all the way to Ohio from Washington state with a stop for family visit in Utah, but it was his plane and he was completely legal as far as I know. He emailed updates to me and a bunch of other people about his trip. On the second day he blew a tire landing at Ogden Utah. This all just is a long way of agreeing with you that enhanced flying skill - especially the need to learn new tricks to fly very light planes - is something that just doesn't come easy. I think it is a sad truth that the fact a person can build a very nice plane says nothing at all about his ability to fly it. We see lots of accidents in the experimental community because of this simple truth. I can't imagine there is much of any way to fix this. The FAA is starting to concentrate on second owners of home built planes needing good transition training, but for the original owner it is all a mater of personal discipline. I've never seen any numbers on demonstrated cross wind landings for the Zodiac XL. Have you? The Tecnam Echo I was flying has a high wing and demonstrated 15 knot crosswind, but I would certainly not want to try that trick. The Zodiac might be a little better because of the low wing. Paul. On 4/12/2011 6:42 PM, Ron Lendon wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" > > Paul, > > That's the good thing about our country you are free to make your own decisions. With that freedom also comes risk. > > I don't think we will see many more of these designs falling out of the sky. The ones that are flying without the upgrade are most likely well within the flight envelope now. > > There has been enough talk about the short comings of the design and not enough talk about the piloting skills. This design flies very docile but you have to be very light on the controls. Even with the upgrade and control limit modifications, you must be light on the controls. > > Also it is a LSA, so bring your wind and gust factor minimums down to a lower value for the go/no go decision. That's the type of conversations I think we should be having. Flying safe is not a function of the equipment (although it is a factor), thats the pilots responsibility. > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI > WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Corvair Engine Prints: > http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:54 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Final Report on the Markermeer accident has been published Hi Don, I can say for sure he wasn't on the toe brakes. The Tecnam Echo has a single brake lever between the seats. I think he had not yet developed the soft touch needed for such a light and sensitive plane. He was over controlling a lot a couple of days before. I'm guessing it is just a case of one day of demonstration and practice just isn't enough for a normal plane pilot to make a smooth transition to LSA. Paul On 4/13/2011 11:20 AM, Don Honabach wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Honabach > >>> ...where I could make predictable good landings > After almost 200 hours in my 601HDS, I'm still a bit surprised when I tip-toe onto the run way, but it does tend to happen much more often now which is nice. When I do, there is nothing like it! > >>> On the second day he blew a tire landing at Ogden Utah > I wonder if he was landing with the toe breaks on? I went through a set of mains really quickly during my first 50 hours because of having my feet positioned too high and inadvertently landing with brakes on. Never realized it and just thought the tires were wearing really quickly and then someone mentioned to me that there was smoke coming from the tires when I landed and I finally figured out what I was doing... > > Don > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.