Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:46 AM - What a joke (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
2. 01:52 PM - NTSB Has Release the Probable Cause for Agnos (Terry Phillips)
3. 02:10 PM - Re: NTSB Has Release the Probable Cause for Agnos (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 02:16 PM - Re: NTSB Has Release the Probable Cause for Agnos (Steve Freeman)
5. 08:20 PM - Re: NTSB Has Release the Probable Cause for Agnos (Terry Phillips)
6. 08:41 PM - Greenhouse cockpit (davecove)
7. 10:34 PM - Re: Greenhouse cockpit (Steve Freeman)
Message 1
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This is the most Mickey Mouse SB and fix I think I have ever seen.
Instead of replacing the bolt and nut with one of the proper size and
length they (Jabiru) just add an ARP nut that is too long and that's their fix.
I am in the process of installing the New water cooled heads on a 3300 that
fixes the non existent re occurring over heating problems they (Jabiru)
claims don't exist. But the funny thing is Rotec has sold over 100 sets of
them. I will post pics as we progress on the install.
Message 2
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| Subject: | NTSB Has Release the Probable Cause for Agnos |
The probable cause for Agnos has been released:
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id 091107X34009&key=1
The NTSB Conclusion:
"The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this ACC as follows:
The in-flight separation of both wings due to aileron flutter. The
aileron flutter was the result of inadequate wing stiffness and the lack
of aileron counterbalances."
--
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail& flaps are done;
Upgrading wings& ailerons per AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: NTSB Has Release the Probable Cause for Agnos |
Hi Terry,
Thanks for posting the link to the NTSB report.
I saw two new things in this report. First, nobody has ever before
actually blamed flutter for one of these accidents. There have been
plenty of suspicions but no actual determination. Second, they talked
about compression failure on both top and bottom spar caps. This
suggests to me the whole wing was "Waving" up and down and not just the
ailerons.
I am hopeful we will see no more of these accidents in planes where the
design upgrade has been installed. I also hope those who have decided
not to install the upgrade reconsider their decision.
Paul
XL nearing inspection.
On 4/29/2011 1:45 PM, Terry Phillips wrote:
>
> The probable cause for Agnos has been released:
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id 091107X34009&key=1
>
> The NTSB Conclusion:
>
> "The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
> cause(s) of this ACC as follows:
>
> The in-flight separation of both wings due to aileron flutter. The
> aileron flutter was the result of inadequate wing stiffness and the
> lack of aileron counterbalances."
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | NTSB Has Release the Probable Cause for Agnos |
That seems pretty straight forward.
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Phillips
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 1:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: NTSB Has Release the Probable Cause for Agnos
The probable cause for Agnos has been released:
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id 091107X34009&key=1
The NTSB Conclusion:
"The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this ACC as follows:
The in-flight separation of both wings due to aileron flutter. The aileron
flutter was the result of inadequate wing stiffness and the lack of aileron
counterbalances."
--
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail& flaps are done;
Upgrading wings& ailerons per AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: NTSB Has Release the Probable Cause for Agnos |
Hi Paul
I very much agree that the evidence suggests that the whole wing was
waving up and down (flutter) and that the resulting stresses on the wing
spars caused wings to fail. I personally believe that the XLB mods will
eliminate the possibility of flutter in the modified aircraft, and that
there will not be any future wing loss accidents in the XLB fleet. I
also hope that all owners of 601XL's will choose to install the mods.
I wish you the best of luck with your XL. Please keep us informed as you
progress through your test phase.
Terry
On 4/29/2011 3:03 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> Hi Terry,
>
> Thanks for posting the link to the NTSB report.
>
> I saw two new things in this report. First, nobody has ever before
> actually blamed flutter for one of these accidents. There have been
> plenty of suspicions but no actual determination. Second, they talked
> about compression failure on both top and bottom spar caps. This
> suggests to me the whole wing was "Waving" up and down and not just
> the ailerons.
>
> I am hopeful we will see no more of these accidents in planes where
> the design upgrade has been installed. I also hope those who have
> decided not to install the upgrade reconsider their decision.
>
> Paul
> XL nearing inspection.
--
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail& flaps are done;
Upgrading wings& ailerons per AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Greenhouse cockpit |
For years, my wife and I owned and flew a Grumman AA5 that had a slide-back canopy
with a solid top and side windows. The solid center 'stripe' provided lots
of welcome shade.
Now I am seriously looking at starting a 650 but my wife looked at that giant bubble
canopy and said 'greenhouse'. She is right of course, here in Houston that
giant bubble will allow us to pop popcorn for in-route snacking.
I am sure some of you south of Mason-Dixon have struggled with this and found good
solutions. Would you mind sharing? How does one mitigate all that surface
area?
Also, is it possible to taxi with the canopy partly raised so that the big fan
keeps things cool in the cockpit while on the ground? (in the AA5 you could actually
fly with the canopy opened about 8" (as per POH), very refreshing)
Dave
Houston, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338492#338492
Message 7
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| Subject: | Greenhouse cockpit |
I fly with my buddy Don in a 601HDS out of DVT in Phoenix AZ in the summer
and while it is hot on the ground once at altitude it is fine. YOU can taxi
with the canopy propped open. I saw a guy at an fly in who developed a neat
little solution for keeping his canopy open. Normally me or Don will just
hold the canopy open with our arm on the arm rest and canopy resting in our
hand. Not a big deal but I am sure there is a better way.
Steve
650B fuselage still in the canoe stage but making good progress.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of davecove
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 8:37 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Greenhouse cockpit
For years, my wife and I owned and flew a Grumman AA5 that had a slide-back
canopy with a solid top and side windows. The solid center 'stripe' provided
lots of welcome shade.
Now I am seriously looking at starting a 650 but my wife looked at that
giant bubble canopy and said 'greenhouse'. She is right of course, here in
Houston that giant bubble will allow us to pop popcorn for in-route
snacking.
I am sure some of you south of Mason-Dixon have struggled with this and
found good solutions. Would you mind sharing? How does one mitigate all that
surface area?
Also, is it possible to taxi with the canopy partly raised so that the big
fan keeps things cool in the cockpit while on the ground? (in the AA5 you
could actually fly with the canopy opened about 8" (as per POH), very
refreshing)
Dave
Houston, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338492#338492
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