---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/14/11: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:23 AM - Re: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Damien Graham) 2. 06:44 AM - Re: Airspeed indicator and encoder fittings (Jay Bannister) 3. 07:32 AM - Re: [Probable Spam] 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Larry McFarland) 4. 11:43 AM - Re: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Clive Richards) 5. 12:01 PM - Re: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Carlos Sa) 6. 04:13 PM - Bucking Bar Recommendation... (Matt Dralle) 7. 06:36 PM - Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Michel Therrien) 8. 06:38 PM - Re: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Steve Freeman) 9. 07:23 PM - Re: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Michel Therrien) 10. 10:51 PM - Re: Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (simonnelson@vodamail.co.za) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:34 AM PST US From: Damien Graham Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Thanks. I have been working on the issues that you two brought up during the annual and I will send you a report when I finish. Regards, Damien Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2011, at 11:24 PM, Michel Therrien wrote: > Hi group! > > I had a major unpleasant surprise today when I dismantled my firewall-forw ard installation. While removing the engine mount, I felt there was too muc h "play" in the movement of an upper engine mount fitting bolt. This is par t 6-F-7-2 in the plans. > > My upper left fitting was indeed cracked in such a way that the side angle was no longer united to the front side of the fitting. There might be more and I will know later when I remove the four fittings to inspect, sand blas t and repaint them. At first glance, the lower fittings appear OK. > > These are parts I never really inspected when I did my annuals so I don't k now if I have been flying with broken engine mount fittings or not and for h ow long. But I don't like the idea that I did. > > > ---------------------------- > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airspeed indicator and encoder fittings From: Jay Bannister Michel, I used the screw type fittings. (see photo) My EAA tech adviser says he pr efers the barb fittings, because they are less prone to leaking than the sc rew type, but they are a pain to re-do. The tubing must be cut off and rep laced. I never had mine tested, so I can't say how tight they are. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Michel Therrien Sent: Sat, Aug 13, 2011 10:35 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Airspeed indicator and encoder fittings Hi group! (again) I used plastic hoses and fittings for my pitot/statics and flight instrumen ts. As I have a transponder, every 24 months, I have to dismantle the airs peed indicator and encoder to get them corelated while the transponder is r e-certified. Now that I am working on my plane again I would like to upgrade the connect ions in such a way that it is easier to dismantle every two years and of co urse, in a way that the connections will remain reliable. What fittings do you use for that purpose on your altimeter and encoder? ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:37 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: RE: [Probable Spam] Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Hi Michel, I'm not surprised that that part failed. It was a very delicate construction from the beginning. This part was probably designed when the 601 was powered by lighter engines. The Subaru has some heft to it. I inspect this piece every year at the apex of the bend from both sides. Much harder to do with the solid cover. It's not a bad idea to make the cover removable. Several years ago a Brit that flew from an old military airfield sent pictures showing both broken pieces and the firewall was doing most of the work before it was repaired. Good piece to add to the Annual Inspection routine. Thanks for the heads up! Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Therrien Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 10:25 PM Subject: [Probable Spam] Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Hi group! I had a major unpleasant surprise today when I dismantled my firewall-forward installation. While removing the engine mount, I felt there was too much "play" in the movement of an upper engine mount fitting bolt. This is part 6-F-7-2 in the plans. My upper left fitting was indeed cracked in such a way that the side angle was no longer united to the front side of the fitting. There might be more and I will know later when I remove the four fittings to inspect, sand blast and repaint them. At first glance, the lower fittings appear OK. These are parts I never really inspected when I did my annuals so I don't know if I have been flying with broken engine mount fittings or not and for how long. But I don't like the idea that I did. ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:31 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Michel We found the cross channel in the engine compartment cracked on the Left side about 6 years ago on Rays 601 HD with 0-200 when changing Bungee, suspected we had cut off to much material near engine mount, replaced with a thicker channel and carried the L angle above completely across fire wall as noticed they had done this on the XL, have done another 400 hrs since with no problem. Clive G CBDG 460 Hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: Damien Graham To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Thanks. I have been working on the issues that you two brought up during the annual and I will send you a report when I finish. Regards, Damien Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2011, at 11:24 PM, Michel Therrien wrote: Hi group! I had a major unpleasant surprise today when I dismantled my firewall-forward installation. While removing the engine mount, I felt there was too much "play" in the movement of an upper engine mount fitting bolt. This is part 6-F-7-2 in the plans. My upper left fitting was indeed cracked in such a way that the side angle was no longer united to the front side of the fitting. There might be more and I will know later when I remove the four fittings to inspect, sand blast and repaint them. At first glance, the lower fittings appear OK. These are parts I never really inspected when I did my annuals so I don't know if I have been flying with broken engine mount fittings or not and for how long. But I don't like the idea that I did. ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:03 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Clive, are you talking about 6F8-2? Carlos On 14 August 2011 14:36, Clive Richards wrote: > ** > Michel > We found the cross channel in the engine compartment > cracked on the Left side about 6 years ago on Rays 601 HD with 0-200 when > changing Bungee, suspected we had cut off to much material near engine > mount, replaced with a thicker channel and carried the L angle > above completely across fire wall as noticed they had done this on the XL, > have done another 400 hrs since with no problem. > Clive > G CBDG 460 Hrs > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:57 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: Bucking Bar Recommendation... Dear Listers, After nearly 23 years of building metal airplanes on and off, I finally came across a really nice bucking bar. The part number details are below and I've attached a picture of it with the optional 6.5" Dolly Shank attached (recommended). The handle has a vibration absorbing mechanism inside and it makes riveting almost a pleasure. It really works good. I was truly amazed at how much more comfortable it is riveting using the tool. If you've got even a modest amount of riveting left to do on your project, surf over to the US Tool web site and order up one. You won't be sorry! I don't get any kick back (pun intended) from US Tool; I'm just a very stratified customer. US Tool - TP111R - Recoilless Bucking Bar - All Steel: https://www.ustool.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p 41 US Tool - 31021-3 - 6.5" Dolly Shank: https://www.ustool.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p 80 Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:12 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Zenith-List: Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Today, I cleaned up the firewall after I removed all remaining parts relate d with my Soob installation.=0A=C2-=0AThe upper left engine mount fitting is broken at the weld seam and also at the lower bend... the firewall side of that fitting was no longer attached to the rest of the fitting and ther efore was not pulling on the longeron at all.=C2- It was only pulling on the firewall.=0A=C2-=0AThe upper right fitting is broken on the side weld joint.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AI tried to see if I could easilly see that upon i nspection... not really easy.=C2- I was able to see the right fitting def ect by playing with the bolt (the engine mount is removed).=C2- Otherwise , I dont really see that it is broken if I don't move it. =0A=C2-=0AThe l ower fittings appear to be OK.. I will remove them for inspection however. =C2- =0A=C2-=0AI will make new parts and I am considering using 0.080" 4130 instead of 0.050".=C2-=C2- I intend to paint them in yellow to eas e seeing cracks.=C2- Right now, they are black.=C2- I'm a bit nervous p utting a still heavier engine that will pull more HP on that frame... (my F ranklin), but I know people installed O-235 and O-200.=0A=C2-=0AI will co ntact Zenith Aircraft.=C2-=C2- Larry's explanation may be very much rig ht.... the Soob installation is about 100 lbs heavier than a Rotax install. I cannot say that the Soob is a vibrating engine however, mine was very sm ooth.=0A=C2-=0A----------------------------=0AMichel Therrien CH601-HD, C -GZGQ=0Ahttp://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601=0Ahttp://pages.infinit.net/mthob by=0A=0AFrom: Larry McFarland =0ATo: zenith-list@mat ronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:27:12 AM=0ASubject: RE: [Prob able Spam] Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings=0A=0A=0AHi Michel,=0AI=99m not surprised that that part fai led. It was a very delicate construction from the beginning. =C2-This par t was probably designed when the 601 was powered by lighter engines.=C2- The Subaru has some heft to it.=C2- I inspect this piece every year at th e apex of the bend from both sides.=C2- Much harder to do with the solid cover. =C2-It=99s not a bad idea to make the cover removable. =C2 -Several years ago a Brit that flew from an old military airfield sent pi ctures showing both broken pieces and the firewall was doing most of the wo rk before it was repaired.=C2- Good piece to add to the Annual=0AInspecti on routine. Thanks for the heads up!=0A=C2-=0ALarry McFarland 601HDS at w ww.macsmachine.com=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Therrien =0ASent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 10:25 PM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: [Probable Spam] Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch f or - engine mount fittings=0A=C2-=0AHi group!=C2- =0A=C2-=0AI had a m ajor unpleasant surprise today when I dismantled my firewall-forward instal lation.=C2- While removing the engine mount, I felt there was too much "p lay" in the movement of an upper engine mount fitting bolt.=C2- This is p art 6-F-7-2 in the plans.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AMy upper left fitting was indee d cracked in=C2-such a way that the side angle was no longer united to th e front side of the fitting.=C2- There might be more and I will know late r when I remove the four fittings=C2-to inspect, sand blast and repaint t hem.=C2- At first glance, the lower fittings appear OK.=0A=C2-=0AThese are parts I never really inspected when I did my annuals so I don't know if I have been flying with broken engine mount fittings or not and for how lo ng.=C2- But I don't like the idea that I did.=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A------- ---------------------=0AMichel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ=0Ahttp://mthobby.p cperfect.com/ch601=0Ahttp://pages.infinit.net/mthobby=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A =C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zeni th-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contributi ================== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:08 PM PST US From: "Steve Freeman" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Hi Michel, Can you post any pictures? Thank you, Steve Freeman From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Therrien Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 8:25 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Hi group! I had a major unpleasant surprise today when I dismantled my firewall-forward installation. While removing the engine mount, I felt there was too much "play" in the movement of an upper engine mount fitting bolt. This is part 6-F-7-2 in the plans. My upper left fitting was indeed cracked in such a way that the side angle was no longer united to the front side of the fitting. There might be more and I will know later when I remove the four fittings to inspect, sand blast and repaint them. At first glance, the lower fittings appear OK. These are parts I never really inspected when I did my annuals so I don't know if I have been flying with broken engine mount fittings or not and for how long. But I don't like the idea that I did. ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:03 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Right now, not much to take pictures of... I will when I will remove the pa rts.=0A=0A=0A----------------------------=0AMichel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZG Q=0Ahttp://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601=0Ahttp://pages.infinit.net/mthobby =0A=0AFrom: Steve Freeman =0ATo: zenith-list@ma tronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:33:25 PM=0ASubject: RE: Zenit h-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings=0A=0A =0AHi Michel,=0A=0ACan you post any pictures?=0A-=0AThank you,=0ASteve Fr eeman=0A-=0AFrom:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zen ith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Therrien=0ASent: Saturda y, August 13, 2011 8:25 PM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Zenit h-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings=0A- =0AHi group!- =0A-=0AI had a major unpleasant surprise today when I dis mantled my firewall-forward installation.- While removing the engine moun t, I felt there was too much "play" in the movement of an upper engine moun t fitting bolt.- This is part 6-F-7-2 in the plans.- =0A-=0AMy upper left fitting was indeed cracked in-such a way that the side angle was no longer united to the front side of the fitting.- There might be more and I will know later when I remove the four fittings-to inspect, sand blast and repaint them.- At first glance, the lower fittings appear OK.=0A- =0AThese are parts I never really inspected when I did my annuals so I don' t know if I have been flying with broken engine mount fittings or not and f or how long.- But I don't like the idea that I did.=0A-=0A-=0A------- ---------------------=0AMichel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ=0Ahttp://mthobby.p cperfect.com/ch601=0Ahttp://pages.infinit.net/mthobby=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A -=0A-=0A-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List=0Ahttp://f =========== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings From: 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