---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/15/11: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:15 AM - Re: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Clive Richards) 2. 04:03 AM - Tie Wraps (George Race) 3. 06:08 AM - Re: Tie Wraps (FLYaDIVE) 4. 08:41 AM - Re: Warning - New Bose Line Power Cables Only 3' Long! (FLYaDIVE) 5. 10:22 AM - Re: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Carlos Sa) 6. 10:29 AM - Re: Airspeed indicator and encoder fittings (FLYaDIVE) 7. 10:36 AM - Re: Airspeed indicator and encoder fittings (FLYaDIVE) 8. 02:30 PM - Cowl Plugs for Jabiru Engine and Las Vegas (Don Honabach) 9. 03:08 PM - Re: Cowl Plugs for Jabiru Engine and Las Vegas (Steve Freeman) 10. 06:00 PM - Re: Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Michel Therrien) 11. 06:32 PM - Re: Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Don Honabach) 12. 07:27 PM - Re: Airspeed indicator and encoder fittings (Michel Therrien) 13. 08:19 PM - Re: Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings (Carlos Sa) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:04 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Carlos I donot have the drawing here to check number but pictures attached. before & after replacement . Clive ----- Original Message ----- From: Carlos Sa To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 7:55 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Clive, are you talking about 6F8-2? Carlos On 14 August 2011 14:36, Clive Richards wrote: Michel We found the cross channel in the engine compartment cracked on the Left side about 6 years ago on Rays 601 HD with 0-200 when changing Bungee, suspected we had cut off to much material near engine mount, replaced with a thicker channel and carried the L angle above completely across fire wall as noticed they had done this on the XL, have done another 400 hrs since with no problem. Clive G CBDG 460 Hrs ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:16 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Tie Wraps Good morning In you second picture, I noticed you built up a standoff for your flexible cable using two tie wraps. A very acceptable procedure. Just a note of caution to go along with what is showing the picture. Here in MI our FAA Inspectors will not approve any build that has a tie wrap directly applied to any engine mount tubing. They insist that eventually it will score the tubing causing a weak area where it is located. It is allowed if you first wrap a couple of turns of Scotch 66 or 88 tape around the tubing first and then tighten the tie wrap on the taped over tubing. The rules may differ where you are, George From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clive Richards Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 5:07 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Carlos I donot have the drawing here to check number but pictures attached. before & after replacement . Clive ----- Original Message ----- From: Carlos Sa Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 7:55 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Clive, are you talking about 6F8-2? Carlos On 14 August 2011 14:36, Clive Richards wrote: Michel We found the cross channel in the engine compartment cracked on the Left side about 6 years ago on Rays 601 HD with 0-200 when changing Bungee, suspected we had cut off to much material near engine mount, replaced with a thicker channel and carried the L angle above completely across fire wall as noticed they had done this on the XL, have done another 400 hrs since with no problem. Clive G CBDG 460 Hrs href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tie Wraps From: FLYaDIVE Unbelievable George... Just shows you how totally unrealistic the FAA/Government can be. TOTALLY DUMB! The ONLY issue I would have is if the engine mount is NOT painted. Shows how much they know about materials, hardness (Rockwell Vs Shore) and even a simple thing like Mohs Scale. That's what happens when give too much power to idiots! Barry On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 6:55 AM, George Race wrote: > Good morning**** > > In you second picture, I noticed you built up a standoff for your flexible > cable using two tie wraps. A very acceptable procedure. Just a note of > caution to go along with what is showing the picture. Here in MI our FAA > Inspectors will not approve any build that has a tie wrap directly applied > to any engine mount tubing. They insist that eventually it will score the > tubing causing a weak area where it is located. It is allowed if you first > wrap a couple of turns of Scotch 66 or 88 tape around the tubing first and > then tighten the tie wrap on the taped over tubing.**** > > ** ** > > The rules may differ where you are,**** > > George**** > > ** ** > > *From:* owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Clive Richards > *Sent:* Monday, August 15, 2011 5:07 AM > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine > mount fittings**** > > ** ** > > Carlos**** > > I donot have the drawing here to check number but > pictures attached. before & after replacement .**** > > Clive**** > > ----- Original Message ----- **** > > *From:* Carlos Sa **** > > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com **** > > *Sent:* Sunday, August 14, 2011 7:55 PM**** > > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine > mount fittings**** > > ** ** > > Clive, are you talking about 6F8-2? > > Carlos**** > > On 14 August 2011 14:36, Clive Richards > wrote:**** > > Michel**** > > We found the cross channel in the engine compartment > cracked on the Left side about 6 years ago on Rays 601 HD with 0-200 when > changing Bungee, suspected we had cut off to much material near engine > mount, replaced with a thicker channel and carried the L angle > above completely across fire wall as noticed they had done this on the XL, > have done another 400 hrs since with no problem.**** > > Clive**** > > G CBDG 460 Hrs**** > > ** ** > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Warning - New Bose Line Power Cables Only 3' Long! From: FLYaDIVE Matt: I agree... WTF! I don't care how good BOSE is (or claims to be), any body that spends that kind of money on a headset has MMTB... More Money Than Brains. And BOSE knows it. They just treat them in kind. Barry On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > Just a heads up to those installing or planning on installing Bose X or A20 > Active NR headsets using the inline power jacks. Specifically these units: > > > http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/aviation_headsets/accessories/headset_installkit_acc.jsp > > They now come with only 3 feet of cable! Three years ago they came with 6 > feet of cable and I thought at the time that 6 feet seemed a little short. > Now 3 feet? What idiot penny pincher in Bose marketing decided "three feet > should be plenty". Here's quote from the Bose web page above: "Three-foot > wiring harness with six pin female connector allows for *placement in > locations throughout aircraft*." WTF? On what planet will a 3-foot > hardness reach "locations throughout the aircraft". That's just plain > stupid. > > If these were third rate, el-cheapo headsets, I'd write it off to penny > pinching, but for a >$1000 product that you then have to spend an additional > $32 for an installation cable, cheaping out on the cable length is just > simply unacceptable. > > I have the jacks mounted in the center of the RV-8, and the cables don't > even reach to the righthand control console. What does Bose expect people > to do; splice the wire? That's ridiculous! What would somebody installing > in the back seats of a 4 or 6 place airplane do? > > Of course I wrote a scathing email to Bose Support just now. I'm sure they > will write back with "for most of our customers, three feet is sufficient". > > Given this direction within Bose, I'd definitely consider the new > Sennheiser S1 if I had to do it over again. Additionally, the Sennheiser's > Bluetooth supports the A2DP, AVRCP STEREO profiles. The Bose A20's > Bluetooth does NOT support stereo. It must have been the same marketing > moron that dictated 3' cables that decided not to include stereo Bluetooth > profiles. Unbelievable. > > Matt > > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:24 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Clive, tx for the pictures ! Carlos On 15 August 2011 05:06, Clive Richards wrote: > ** > Carlos > I donot have the drawing here to check number but > pictures attached. before & after replacement . > Clive > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:29:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airspeed indicator and encoder fittings From: FLYaDIVE Michel: I'm guessing from your call-sign that you are from Canada. I do not know how the Canadian officials handle transponders BUT - For the USA the Transponder and altitude reporting encoder MUST be check IN THE PLANE. They are a system and to check them individually you are separating them into three parts Transponder - Encoder - Hoses. Therefore how does one certify a system if all you are testing are TWO of the three individual components? Also... How do you prove that the components went into the plane that is Annual-ed/Inspected? Something does not sound proper. Barry On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 11:29 PM, Michel Therrien wrote: > Hi group! (again) > > I used plastic hoses and fittings for my pitot/statics and flight > instruments. As I have a transponder, every 24 months, I have to dismantle > the airspeed indicator and encoder to get them corelated while the > transponder is re-certified. > > Now that I am working on my plane again I would like to upgrade the > connections in such a way that it is easier to dismantle every two years and > of course, in a way that the connections will remain reliable. > > What fittings do you use for that purpose on your altimeter and encoder? > > > ---------------------------- > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airspeed indicator and encoder fittings From: FLYaDIVE Jay: Nice clean instillation, but if I may make a suggestion: On the two left gauges the hose coupling between the top & bottom is a failure point. There is no length of hosing (service loop / pigtail) between the two so vibration is pulling and pushing between the two gauges. Simple cure... Make a service loop/pig tail between the gauges. This will give you room for service and eliminate stressing the connections & gauges. Barry On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Jay Bannister wrote: > Michel, > > I used the screw type fittings. (see photo) My EAA tech adviser says he > prefers the barb fittings, because they are less prone to leaking than the > screw type, but they are a pain to re-do. The tubing must be cut off and > replaced. I never had mine tested, so I can't say how tight they are. > > Jay > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Therrien > To: Zenith-list > Sent: Sat, Aug 13, 2011 10:35 pm > Subject: Zenith-List: Airspeed indicator and encoder fittings > > Hi group! (again) > > I used plastic hoses and fittings for my pitot/statics and flight > instruments. As I have a transponder, every 24 months, I have to dismantle > the airspeed indicator and encoder to get them corelated while the > transponder is re-certified. > > Now that I am working on my plane again I would like to upgrade the > connections in such a way that it is easier to dismantle every two years and > of course, in a way that the connections will remain reliable. > > What fittings do you use for that purpose on your altimeter and encoder? > > > ---------------------------- > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > * > > tor?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:17 PM PST US From: Don Honabach Subject: Zenith-List: Cowl Plugs for Jabiru Engine and Las Vegas Anyone know of a good source for cowl plugs for the Jabiru Cowling? In par ticular the front air intake and carb air intake openings? The carb air in take being the major one - we get a lot of dust when parked outside and plu gging this will greatly help keep the filter clean. Also, does anyone have any recommendations for which airport to fly into La s Vegas as GA pilot looking to take a friend up to Las Vegas for a few days ? Hoping to avoid renting a car and will be hanging out/staying on the stri p. Also, looking to avoid the big airport there. Thanks! Don ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:22 PM PST US From: "Steve Freeman" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cowl Plugs for Jabiru Engine and Las Vegas Henderson on North Las Vegas if you don't mind dealing with the Vegas Class B. SF From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Honabach Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 2:25 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Cowl Plugs for Jabiru Engine and Las Vegas Anyone know of a good source for cowl plugs for the Jabiru Cowling? In particular the front air intake and carb air intake openings? The carb air intake being the major one - we get a lot of dust when parked outside and plugging this will greatly help keep the filter clean. Also, does anyone have any recommendations for which airport to fly into Las Vegas as GA pilot looking to take a friend up to Las Vegas for a few days? Hoping to avoid renting a car and will be hanging out/staying on the strip. Also, looking to avoid the big airport there. Thanks! Don ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:44 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Hello Group!=0A=C2-=0AAttached are pictures of my two upper fittings.=C2 -There is a crack next to the weld on the right fitting.=C2- There is o ne long crack that follow the weld and then curves around the bottom on the other fitting.=C2- There is also another horizontal crack starting from the bolt to the left side.=0A=C2-=0AI got a response from Zenith Aircraft .=C2- They state that I am the only one that they are aware this happened .=C2- I learned today that one of my friend had a similar issue years ago .=C2- I also found an email about this in the 2004 archive of this list. =C2- The fittings are design to support engines of up to 300 lbs accordin g to the response I got.=C2- I intend to make them using thicker 4130.=C2 - I will also verify with my welder why there are cracks next to the weld s.=0A=0A----------------------------=0AMichel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ=0Ah ttp://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601=0Ahttp://pages.infinit.net/mthobby=0A=0AF rom: Michel Therrien =0ATo: "zenith-list@matronics.com" < zenith-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:31:21 PM=0ASub ject: Zenith-List: Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings=0A=0A=0AToday, I cleaned up the firewall after I removed all remaining parts related with my Soob installation.=0A=C2-=0AThe upper le ft engine mount fitting is broken at the weld seam and also at the lower be nd... the firewall side of that fitting was no longer attached to the rest of the fitting and therefore was not pulling on the longeron at all.=C2- It was only pulling on the firewall.=0A=C2-=0AThe upper right fitting is broken on the side weld joint.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AI tried to see if I could easilly see that upon inspection... not really easy.=C2- I was able to se e the right fitting defect by playing with the bolt (the engine mount is re moved).=C2- Otherwise, I dont really see that it is broken if I don't mov e it. =0A=C2-=0AThe lower fittings appear to be OK.. I will remove them f or inspection however.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AI will make new parts and I am con sidering using 0.080" 4130 instead of 0.050".=C2-=C2- I intend to paint them in yellow to ease seeing cracks.=C2- Right now, they are black.=C2 - I'm a bit nervous putting a still heavier engine that will pull more HP on that frame... (my Franklin), but I know people installed O-235 and O-20 0.=0A=C2-=0AI will contact Zenith Aircraft.=C2-=C2- Larry's explanati on may be very much right.... the Soob installation is about 100 lbs heavie r than a Rotax install. I cannot say that the Soob is a vibrating engine ho wever, mine was very smooth.=0A=0A----------------------------=0AMichel The rrien CH601-HD,=0A C-GZGQ=0Ahttp://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601=0Ahttp://pag es.infinit.net/mthobby=0A=0AFrom: Larry McFarland =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:27:12 A M=0ASubject: RE: [Probable Spam] Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to wa tch for - engine mount fittings=0A=0A=0AHi Michel,=0AI=99m not surpri sed that that part failed. It was a very delicate construction from the beg inning. =C2-This part was probably designed when the 601 was powered by l ighter engines.=C2- The Subaru has some heft to it.=C2- I inspect this piece every year at the apex of the bend from both sides.=C2- Much harder to do with the solid cover. =C2-It=99s not a bad idea to make the cover removable. =C2-Several years ago a Brit that flew from an old milit ary airfield sent pictures showing both broken pieces and the firewall was doing most of the work before it was repaired.=C2- Good piece to add to t he Annual=0AInspection routine. Thanks for the heads up!=0A=C2-=0ALarry M cFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-zenith-list-se rver@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behal f Of Michel Therrien=0ASent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 10:25 PM=0ATo: zenit h-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: [Probable Spam] Zenith-List: 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings=0A=C2-=0AHi group!=C2- =0A=C2-=0AI had a major unpleasant surprise today when I dismantled my fi rewall-forward installation.=C2- While removing the engine mount, I felt there was too much "play" in the movement of an upper engine mount fitting bolt.=C2- This is part 6-F-7-2 in the plans.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AMy upper l eft fitting was indeed cracked in=C2-such a way that the side angle was n o longer united to the front side of the fitting.=C2- There might be more and I will know later when I remove the four fittings=C2-to inspect, san d blast and repaint them.=C2- At first glance, the lower fittings appear OK.=0A=C2-=0AThese are parts I never really inspected when I did my annua ls so I don't know if I have been flying with broken engine mount fittings or not and for how long.=C2- But I don't like the idea that I did.=0A=C2 -=0A=C2-=0A----------------------------=0AMichel Therrien CH601-HD, C-G ZGQ=0Ahttp://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601=0Ahttp://pages.infinit.net/mthobby =0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Zenith-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.mat ronics.com/contribution=0A=C2- =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navi.matronics .com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.-> =0A=0A_ -======================== ============= ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:57 PM PST US From: Don Honabach Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings VGhhbmtzIGZvciBzaGFyaW5nIHRoaXMhIQ0KDQpEb24NCg0KRG8gTm90IEFyY2hpdmUNCg0KRnJv 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dHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aS5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIiByZWw9Im5vZm9sbG93 IiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuLT4NCg0KDQo8aHR0cDov L3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbj4NCjxodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uPg0KDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/ WmVuaXRoLUxpc3RodHRwPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9u aWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/WmVuaXRoLUxpc3Q+DQoNCiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3Mu Y29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9aZW5pdGgtTGlzdD4NCg0KDQoNCjxodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1plbml0aC1MaXN0Pg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:23 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airspeed indicator and encoder fittings What I am aware of is that the altimeter, encoder and transponder must be t ested together.- The encoder and altimeter are correlated together and th e Transponder is recertified with the encoder.- However,- this does not need to be done on the plane; I brought my items three times so far for re certification.- There is another thing that must also be done every 24 mo nths and this is the testing of the pitot/static system.- That, I do myse lf after I re-install the instrument and accessories.- It might indeed be simpler just to bring the aircraft to do this without removing the equipme nt.=0A-=0AFor the proof, I get recertification tag and a correlation shee t from the avionics shop.- Then, I sign the reinstallation of the equipme nt and the result for the pitot/static test in the log book.=0A=0A--------- -------------------=0AMichel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ=0Ahttp://mthobby.pcp erfect.com/ch601=0Ahttp://pages.infinit.net/mthobby=0A=0AFrom: FLYaDIVE =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, August 15 , 2011 1:24:15 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Airspeed indicator and encode r fittings=0A=0A=0AMichel:=0A=0AI'm guessing from your call-sign that you a re from Canada. -I do not know how the Canadian officials handle transpon ders BUT - For the USA the Transponder -and altitude reporting encoder MU ST be check IN THE PLANE. -They are a system and to check them-individu ally-you are-separating-them into three parts Transponder - Encoder - Hoses. -Therefore how does one certify a system if all you are testing a re TWO of the three-individual-components? -Also... How do you prove that the components went into the plane that is-Annual-ed/Inspected? =0AS omething does not sound proper.=0A=0ABarry ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:14 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Update! - 601 owners... something to watch for - engine mount fittings Hello, Michel I remember Larry M made these fittings differently, exactly because he thought this could happen. This was years ago, but I am sure it's in the archives, and more than likely, in Larry's construction log. Salut! Carlos On 15 August 2011 20:55, Michel Therrien wrote: > Hello Group! > > Attached are pictures of my two upper fittings. There is a crack next to > the weld on the right fitting. There is one long crack that follow the weld > and then curves around the bottom on the other fitting. There is also > another horizontal crack starting from the bolt to the left side. > > I got a response from Zenith Aircraft. They state that I am the only one > that they are aware this happened. I learned today that one of my friend > had a similar issue years ago. I also found an email about this in the 2004 > archive of this list. The fittings are design to support engines of up to > 300 lbs according to the response I got. I intend to make them using > thicker 4130. I will also verify with my welder why there are cracks next > to the welds. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.