Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:16 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:57 AM - Nice Present (tomgiles@aol.com)
2. 08:10 AM - Fw: Nice Present (Jay Bannister)
3. 08:34 AM - Re: Nice Present - SPAM (Carlos Sa)
4. 08:42 AM - Re: Nice Present (David J. Dormer)
5. 11:00 AM - XL upgrade video (Mike)
6. 11:24 AM - Re: XL upgrade video (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 11:27 AM - Re: XL upgrade video (Carlos Sa)
8. 12:29 PM - Re: XL upgrade video (Mike)
9. 01:47 PM - Re: XL upgrade video (Paul Mulwitz)
10. 03:31 PM - Re: Nice Present ()
11. 04:38 PM - Re: XL upgrade video (Ronald Steele)
12. 05:21 PM - Re: XL upgrade video (japhillipsga@aol.com)
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| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
Message 1
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It's my pleasure to share this with you http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php
Hope you enjoy it!
Message 2
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I haven't opened this, guessing that it is not really a "nice present" and
probably has nothing to do with Zenith airplanes. Right?
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: tomgiles <tomgiles@aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 9:59 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Nice Present
It's my pleasure to share this with you http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php
Hope you enjoy it!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Nice Present - SPAM |
Spam, just delete it.
On 11 November 2011 11:07, Jay Bannister <jaybannist@cs.com> wrote:
> I haven't opened this, guessing that it is not really a "nice present"
> and probably has nothing to do with Zenith airplanes. Right?
>
> Jay
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tomgiles <tomgiles@aol.com>
> To: zenith-list-digest <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 9:59 am
> Subject: Zenith-List: Nice Present
>
>
> It's my pleasure to share this with you http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php
> Hope you enjoy it!
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Nice Present |
Sir:
Likely, it's a good thing that you didn't open the attachment. My virus
protection warned me against opening it.
D.J. Dormer
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Bannister
To: zenith-list-digest@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 11:07 AM
Subject: Fwd: Zenith-List: Nice Present
I haven't opened this, guessing that it is not really a "nice present"
and probably has nothing to do with Zenith airplanes. Right?
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: tomgiles <tomgiles@aol.com>
To: zenith-list-digest <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 9:59 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Nice Present
It's my pleasure to share this with you http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php
Hope you enjoy it!
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | XL upgrade video |
Hello all,
I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a spam
can instead :)
Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more involved than
I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be installed, which I've
never done. The instructions refer to a video diary of the kit being installed,
but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,
Mike Fortunato
601XL (circa 1999)
Jab 3300
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: XL upgrade video |
Hi Mike,
Congratulations on getting the upgrade kit. I'm sure you will feel a
lot better about your plane after it is installed.
It took me close to a year to install mine. Of course, I am retired and
only work about an hour per day.
If you have never done solid aircraft rivets (like me before this
project) you face a small learning task. You will need a 3X or bigger
rivet gun and a heavy (5 pound?) bucking bar to set the rivets. I found
this is easier to do with deerskin gloves to absorb some of the shock
instead of all of it going to my arm and shoulder (I have a bad back, so
this was important to me). I think you will find a little practice on
scrap will be enough to get you going just fine with this process. You
can also replace the rivets with bolts if you prefer. This might be
attractive for at least some of the positions because the rear ribs get
in the way.
You will probably be wise to order some extra rivets from Spruce or some
other vendor. You will need extras for practice and also for those
rivets that are not up to snuff on the first try. They are not at all
expensive. Be sure to order the "AD" version of the rivets to get the
hard aluminum alloy.
The other challenge will be removing the existing hard rivets in the
spars. I found the easy way to do this is to drill off one head and
drive the rest of the rivet out with the rivet gun and a straight punch
(5/32 " ?). For a bucking bar in that case a heavy steel tube with an
Inside Diameter around 3/8" works well.
The last big challenge for me was drilling the bolt holes that connect
the wings to the spar carry-through. I found step drilling with small
increments works best - better than reaming. Reamers would not stay
straight for me when going such a thick stack of aluminum (around 1 inch
thick after you are all done).
I think you are in for an exciting winter project.
Good luck,
Paul
Camas, WA
XL 20 hours into flight test.
On 11/11/2011 10:57 AM, Mike wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years
> of...well...flying a spam can instead :)
>
> Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more
> involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be
> installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video
> diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does
> anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL (circa 1999)
> Jab 3300
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: XL upgrade video |
You can find in it Zenith.Aero:
http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/installing-the-upgrade-package
Carlos
On 11 November 2011 13:57, Mike <rsq2424@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a
> spam can instead :)
>
> Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more
> involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be
> installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary
> of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know
> where I can find that? Thanks,
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL (circa 1999)
> Jab 3300
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: XL upgrade video |
Thanks Carlos for the link, and thanks Paul for the tips. I'm inclined to u
se bolts if that's an option...I presume the size/specs of the bolts are in
the instructions? (haven't gotten to that point yet)=0A=0A=0A=0A__________
______________________=0AFrom: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>=0ATo: zenith-list
@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, November 11, 2011 11:20 AM=0ASubject: Re: Ze
nith-List: XL upgrade video=0A=0A=0AHi Mike,=0A=0ACongratulations on gettin
g the upgrade kit.- I'm sure you will feel=0A a lot better about your
plane after it is installed.=0A=0AIt took me close to a year to install min
e.- Of course, I am retired=0A and only work about an hour per day.=0A
=0AIf you have never done solid aircraft rivets (like me before this=0A
project) you face a small learning task.- You will need a 3X or=0A big
ger rivet gun and a heavy (5 pound?) bucking bar to set the=0A rivets.
- I found this is easier to do with deerskin gloves to absorb=0A some
of the shock instead of all of it going to my arm and shoulder=0A (I hav
e a bad back, so this was important to me).- I think you will=0A find
a little practice on scrap will be enough to get you going just=0A fine
with this process.- You can also replace the rivets with bolts=0A if y
ou prefer.- This might be attractive for at least some of the=0A posit
ions because the rear ribs get in the way.=0A=0AYou will probably be wise t
o order some extra rivets from Spruce or=0A some other vendor.- You wi
ll need extras for practice and also for=0A those rivets that are not up
to snuff on the first try.- They are=0A not at all expensive.- Be s
ure to order the "AD" version of the=0A rivets to get the hard aluminum
alloy.=0A=0AThe other challenge will be removing the existing hard rivets i
n the=0A spars.- I found the easy way to do this is to drill off one h
ead and=0A drive the rest of the rivet out with the rivet gun and a stra
ight=0A punch (5/32 " ?).- For a bucking bar in that case a heavy stee
l tube=0A with an Inside Diameter around 3/8" works well.=0A=0AThe last
big challenge for me was drilling the bolt holes that=0A connect the win
gs to the spar carry-through.- I found step drilling=0A with small inc
rements works best - better than reaming.- Reamers=0A would not stay s
traight for me when going such a thick stack of=0A aluminum (around 1 in
ch thick after you are all done).=0A=0AI think you are in for an exciting w
inter project.=0A=0AGood luck,=0A=0APaul =0ACamas, WA=0AXL 20 hours into fl
ight test.=0A=0AOn 11/11/2011 10:57 AM, Mike wrote: =0AHello all,=0A>=0A>I'
m finally getting back to my XL project after years=0A of...well...f
lying a spam can instead :)=0A>=0A>Anyway, I received the upgrade complianc
e kit, and wow...much=0A more involved than I had imagined. Plus I s
ee there are solid=0A rivets to be installed, which I've never done.
The instructions=0A refer to a video diary of the kit being install
ed, but doesn't=0A provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find
that? Thanks,=0A>=0A>Mike Fortunato=0A>601XL (circa 1999)=0A>Jab 3300=0A>
=======================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: XL upgrade video |
Hi MIke,
I used lots of bolts on the spars and got brave and used the rivets on
the carry-through. It was easier to work on the carry through because I
could do it on my work shop bench instead of trying to reach all the
spots while attached to the rest of the wing. I found the rivet holes
were larger than the implied size from the rivets used. That meant
using AN-4 bolts on many of the spar holes and AN-3 on the ones furthest
from the wing root. After drilling out the existing rivets I couldn't
use an AN3 bolt to replace a similar sized rivet because it would be too
small for the hole.
You probably need to figure out what size bolt to use and order it from
Spruce. There will be several different lengths you'll need. Once you
learn the AN bolt length code it is pretty easy to decide what length
bolt you need for each application. The code is somewhat silly. The
length numbers are the length from the bottom of the bolt head to the
end of the bolt in inches and 1/8 ths of inches. That means an AN 3
bolt that is 7/8" long is an AN3-7A but when you add 1/8" it becomes
AN3-10A. The A says it is not drilled. No A means the thread end is
drilled and H means the head is drilled.
Have fun,
Paul
On 11/11/2011 12:25 PM, Mike wrote:
> Thanks Carlos for the link, and thanks Paul for the tips. I'm inclined
> to use bolts if that's an option...I presume the size/specs of the
> bolts are in the instructions? (haven't gotten to that point yet)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, November 11, 2011 11:20 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Congratulations on getting the upgrade kit. I'm sure you will feel a
> lot better about your plane after it is installed.
>
> It took me close to a year to install mine. Of course, I am retired
> and only work about an hour per day.
>
> If you have never done solid aircraft rivets (like me before this
> project) you face a small learning task. You will need a 3X or bigger
> rivet gun and a heavy (5 pound?) bucking bar to set the rivets. I
> found this is easier to do with deerskin gloves to absorb some of the
> shock instead of all of it going to my arm and shoulder (I have a bad
> back, so this was important to me). I think you will find a little
> practice on scrap will be enough to get you going just fine with this
> process. You can also replace the rivets with bolts if you prefer.
> This might be attractive for at least some of the positions because
> the rear ribs get in the way.
>
> You will probably be wise to order some extra rivets from Spruce or
> some other vendor. You will need extras for practice and also for
> those rivets that are not up to snuff on the first try. They are not
> at all expensive. Be sure to order the "AD" version of the rivets to
> get the hard aluminum alloy.
>
> The other challenge will be removing the existing hard rivets in the
> spars. I found the easy way to do this is to drill off one head and
> drive the rest of the rivet out with the rivet gun and a straight
> punch (5/32 " ?). For a bucking bar in that case a heavy steel tube
> with an Inside Diameter around 3/8" works well.
>
> The last big challenge for me was drilling the bolt holes that connect
> the wings to the spar carry-through. I found step drilling with small
> increments works best - better than reaming. Reamers would not stay
> straight for me when going such a thick stack of aluminum (around 1
> inch thick after you are all done).
>
> I think you are in for an exciting winter project.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
> Camas, WA
> XL 20 hours into flight test.
>
> On 11/11/2011 10:57 AM, Mike wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years
>> of...well...flying a spam can instead :)
>>
>> Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more
>> involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be
>> installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video
>> diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does
>> anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,
>>
>> Mike Fortunato
>> 601XL (circa 1999)
>> Jab 3300
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *wwwet="_blank" href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Nice Present |
Right. just more ED advertising. At least it's not a Zenith builder. A
friend of mine had his address "hijacked", and now it's hard to
differentiate between an honest e-mail from him, and a get-rich-quick
ad.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Bannister<mailto:jaybannist@cs.com>
To:
zenith-list-digest@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 10:07 AM
Subject: Fwd: Zenith-List: Nice Present
I haven't opened this, guessing that it is not really a "nice present"
and probably has nothing to do with Zenith airplanes. Right?
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: tomgiles <tomgiles@aol.com<mailto:tomgiles@aol.com>>
To: zenith-list-digest
<zenith-list-digest@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list-digest@matronics.com
>>
Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 9:59 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Nice Present
tomgiles@aol.com<mailto:tomgiles@aol.com>
It's my pleasure to share this with you
http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php<http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php>
Hope you enjoy it!
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: XL upgrade video |
As someone who had never even touched a rivet gun, I sweated riveting
a lot.
I ended up buying a 4x sized gun (about $110) and a 1/4 pound of 1"
rivets and a rivet cutter from Spruce.
I practiced a bit on some cheap stock from Home Depot.
I've gotta say the setting those rivets was about the easiest thing
I've done as part of the upgrade. It's really cake.
It is a 2 person job, and you might want to practice a few rivets with
your bucking bar holder.
Note that you don't need a 5lb bucking bar with the 4x gun. A "normal"
sized one works fine.
Doing a good job of drilling out the old rivets is a lot more work,
and a lot fussier than installing the new rivets.
Good Luck,
Ron
On Nov 11, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Mike wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years
> of...well...flying a spam can instead :)
>
> Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more
> involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to
> be installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a
> video diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link.
> Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL (circa 1999)
> Jab 3300
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: XL upgrade video |
Mike, about the solid rivets. They are not much to do once you get the han
g of shooting and bucking. Problem is getting the tools may be a issue. I c
an shoot rivets as I have built an RV-8a, but I decided to use AN3 bolts an
d nuts instead of solid rivets. ZAC allows for that option. Call Roger at Z
AC and ask him. Bunch stronger, costs more, much easier and quicker. A tiny
bit heavier. Just another way to do the wings. I finished my up grade to X
L-B about a year ago. Added a total of 35 pounds to the plane. Fly's great
! Best regards, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 2:01 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video
Hello all,
I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a
spam can instead :)
Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more involved
than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be installed, wh
ich I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary of the kit bei
ng installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find
that? Thanks,
Mike Fortunato
601XL (circa 1999)
Jab 3300
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