---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/11/11: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:16 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle) 1. 07:57 AM - Nice Present (tomgiles@aol.com) 2. 08:10 AM - Fw: Nice Present (Jay Bannister) 3. 08:34 AM - Re: Nice Present - SPAM (Carlos Sa) 4. 08:42 AM - Re: Nice Present (David J. Dormer) 5. 11:00 AM - XL upgrade video (Mike) 6. 11:24 AM - Re: XL upgrade video (Paul Mulwitz) 7. 11:27 AM - Re: XL upgrade video (Carlos Sa) 8. 12:29 PM - Re: XL upgrade video (Mike) 9. 01:47 PM - Re: XL upgrade video (Paul Mulwitz) 10. 03:31 PM - Re: Nice Present () 11. 04:38 PM - Re: XL upgrade video (Ronald Steele) 12. 05:21 PM - Re: XL upgrade video (japhillipsga@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:51 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Nice Present From: tomgiles@aol.com It's my pleasure to share this with you http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php Hope you enjoy it! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:39 AM PST US Subject: Fwd: Zenith-List: Nice Present From: Jay Bannister I haven't opened this, guessing that it is not really a "nice present" and probably has nothing to do with Zenith airplanes. Right? Jay -----Original Message----- From: tomgiles Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 9:59 am Subject: Zenith-List: Nice Present It's my pleasure to share this with you http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php Hope you enjoy it! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:15 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nice Present - SPAM Spam, just delete it. On 11 November 2011 11:07, Jay Bannister wrote: > I haven't opened this, guessing that it is not really a "nice present" > and probably has nothing to do with Zenith airplanes. Right? > > Jay > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tomgiles > To: zenith-list-digest > Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 9:59 am > Subject: Zenith-List: Nice Present > > > It's my pleasure to share this with you http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php > Hope you enjoy it! > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:15 AM PST US From: "David J. Dormer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nice Present Sir: Likely, it's a good thing that you didn't open the attachment. My virus protection warned me against opening it. D.J. Dormer ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Bannister To: zenith-list-digest@matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: Fwd: Zenith-List: Nice Present I haven't opened this, guessing that it is not really a "nice present" and probably has nothing to do with Zenith airplanes. Right? Jay -----Original Message----- From: tomgiles To: zenith-list-digest Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 9:59 am Subject: Zenith-List: Nice Present It's my pleasure to share this with you http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php Hope you enjoy it! _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:00:58 AM PST US From: Mike Subject: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video Hello all, I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a spam can instead :) Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks, Mike Fortunato 601XL (circa 1999) Jab 3300 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:45 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video Hi Mike, Congratulations on getting the upgrade kit. I'm sure you will feel a lot better about your plane after it is installed. It took me close to a year to install mine. Of course, I am retired and only work about an hour per day. If you have never done solid aircraft rivets (like me before this project) you face a small learning task. You will need a 3X or bigger rivet gun and a heavy (5 pound?) bucking bar to set the rivets. I found this is easier to do with deerskin gloves to absorb some of the shock instead of all of it going to my arm and shoulder (I have a bad back, so this was important to me). I think you will find a little practice on scrap will be enough to get you going just fine with this process. You can also replace the rivets with bolts if you prefer. This might be attractive for at least some of the positions because the rear ribs get in the way. You will probably be wise to order some extra rivets from Spruce or some other vendor. You will need extras for practice and also for those rivets that are not up to snuff on the first try. They are not at all expensive. Be sure to order the "AD" version of the rivets to get the hard aluminum alloy. The other challenge will be removing the existing hard rivets in the spars. I found the easy way to do this is to drill off one head and drive the rest of the rivet out with the rivet gun and a straight punch (5/32 " ?). For a bucking bar in that case a heavy steel tube with an Inside Diameter around 3/8" works well. The last big challenge for me was drilling the bolt holes that connect the wings to the spar carry-through. I found step drilling with small increments works best - better than reaming. Reamers would not stay straight for me when going such a thick stack of aluminum (around 1 inch thick after you are all done). I think you are in for an exciting winter project. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA XL 20 hours into flight test. On 11/11/2011 10:57 AM, Mike wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years > of...well...flying a spam can instead :) > > Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more > involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be > installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video > diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does > anyone know where I can find that? Thanks, > > Mike Fortunato > 601XL (circa 1999) > Jab 3300 > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:39 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video You can find in it Zenith.Aero: http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/installing-the-upgrade-package Carlos On 11 November 2011 13:57, Mike wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a > spam can instead :) > > Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more > involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be > installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary > of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know > where I can find that? Thanks, > > Mike Fortunato > 601XL (circa 1999) > Jab 3300 > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:14 PM PST US From: Mike Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video Thanks Carlos for the link, and thanks Paul for the tips. I'm inclined to u se bolts if that's an option...I presume the size/specs of the bolts are in the instructions? (haven't gotten to that point yet)=0A=0A=0A=0A__________ ______________________=0AFrom: Paul Mulwitz =0ATo: zenith-list @matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, November 11, 2011 11:20 AM=0ASubject: Re: Ze nith-List: XL upgrade video=0A=0A=0AHi Mike,=0A=0ACongratulations on gettin g the upgrade kit.- I'm sure you will feel=0A a lot better about your plane after it is installed.=0A=0AIt took me close to a year to install min e.- Of course, I am retired=0A and only work about an hour per day.=0A =0AIf you have never done solid aircraft rivets (like me before this=0A project) you face a small learning task.- You will need a 3X or=0A big ger rivet gun and a heavy (5 pound?) bucking bar to set the=0A rivets. - I found this is easier to do with deerskin gloves to absorb=0A some of the shock instead of all of it going to my arm and shoulder=0A (I hav e a bad back, so this was important to me).- I think you will=0A find a little practice on scrap will be enough to get you going just=0A fine with this process.- You can also replace the rivets with bolts=0A if y ou prefer.- This might be attractive for at least some of the=0A posit ions because the rear ribs get in the way.=0A=0AYou will probably be wise t o order some extra rivets from Spruce or=0A some other vendor.- You wi ll need extras for practice and also for=0A those rivets that are not up to snuff on the first try.- They are=0A not at all expensive.- Be s ure to order the "AD" version of the=0A rivets to get the hard aluminum alloy.=0A=0AThe other challenge will be removing the existing hard rivets i n the=0A spars.- I found the easy way to do this is to drill off one h ead and=0A drive the rest of the rivet out with the rivet gun and a stra ight=0A punch (5/32 " ?).- For a bucking bar in that case a heavy stee l tube=0A with an Inside Diameter around 3/8" works well.=0A=0AThe last big challenge for me was drilling the bolt holes that=0A connect the win gs to the spar carry-through.- I found step drilling=0A with small inc rements works best - better than reaming.- Reamers=0A would not stay s traight for me when going such a thick stack of=0A aluminum (around 1 in ch thick after you are all done).=0A=0AI think you are in for an exciting w inter project.=0A=0AGood luck,=0A=0APaul =0ACamas, WA=0AXL 20 hours into fl ight test.=0A=0AOn 11/11/2011 10:57 AM, Mike wrote: =0AHello all,=0A>=0A>I' m finally getting back to my XL project after years=0A of...well...f lying a spam can instead :)=0A>=0A>Anyway, I received the upgrade complianc e kit, and wow...much=0A more involved than I had imagined. Plus I s ee there are solid=0A rivets to be installed, which I've never done. The instructions=0A refer to a video diary of the kit being install ed, but doesn't=0A provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,=0A>=0A>Mike Fortunato=0A>601XL (circa 1999)=0A>Jab 3300=0A> ======================= ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:39 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video Hi MIke, I used lots of bolts on the spars and got brave and used the rivets on the carry-through. It was easier to work on the carry through because I could do it on my work shop bench instead of trying to reach all the spots while attached to the rest of the wing. I found the rivet holes were larger than the implied size from the rivets used. That meant using AN-4 bolts on many of the spar holes and AN-3 on the ones furthest from the wing root. After drilling out the existing rivets I couldn't use an AN3 bolt to replace a similar sized rivet because it would be too small for the hole. You probably need to figure out what size bolt to use and order it from Spruce. There will be several different lengths you'll need. Once you learn the AN bolt length code it is pretty easy to decide what length bolt you need for each application. The code is somewhat silly. The length numbers are the length from the bottom of the bolt head to the end of the bolt in inches and 1/8 ths of inches. That means an AN 3 bolt that is 7/8" long is an AN3-7A but when you add 1/8" it becomes AN3-10A. The A says it is not drilled. No A means the thread end is drilled and H means the head is drilled. Have fun, Paul On 11/11/2011 12:25 PM, Mike wrote: > Thanks Carlos for the link, and thanks Paul for the tips. I'm inclined > to use bolts if that's an option...I presume the size/specs of the > bolts are in the instructions? (haven't gotten to that point yet) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Paul Mulwitz > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, November 11, 2011 11:20 AM > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video > > Hi Mike, > > Congratulations on getting the upgrade kit. I'm sure you will feel a > lot better about your plane after it is installed. > > It took me close to a year to install mine. Of course, I am retired > and only work about an hour per day. > > If you have never done solid aircraft rivets (like me before this > project) you face a small learning task. You will need a 3X or bigger > rivet gun and a heavy (5 pound?) bucking bar to set the rivets. I > found this is easier to do with deerskin gloves to absorb some of the > shock instead of all of it going to my arm and shoulder (I have a bad > back, so this was important to me). I think you will find a little > practice on scrap will be enough to get you going just fine with this > process. You can also replace the rivets with bolts if you prefer. > This might be attractive for at least some of the positions because > the rear ribs get in the way. > > You will probably be wise to order some extra rivets from Spruce or > some other vendor. You will need extras for practice and also for > those rivets that are not up to snuff on the first try. They are not > at all expensive. Be sure to order the "AD" version of the rivets to > get the hard aluminum alloy. > > The other challenge will be removing the existing hard rivets in the > spars. I found the easy way to do this is to drill off one head and > drive the rest of the rivet out with the rivet gun and a straight > punch (5/32 " ?). For a bucking bar in that case a heavy steel tube > with an Inside Diameter around 3/8" works well. > > The last big challenge for me was drilling the bolt holes that connect > the wings to the spar carry-through. I found step drilling with small > increments works best - better than reaming. Reamers would not stay > straight for me when going such a thick stack of aluminum (around 1 > inch thick after you are all done). > > I think you are in for an exciting winter project. > > Good luck, > > Paul > Camas, WA > XL 20 hours into flight test. > > On 11/11/2011 10:57 AM, Mike wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years >> of...well...flying a spam can instead :) >> >> Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more >> involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be >> installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video >> diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does >> anyone know where I can find that? Thanks, >> >> Mike Fortunato >> 601XL (circa 1999) >> Jab 3300 >> >> * >> >> >> * > *wwwet="_blank" href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com* > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:20 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nice Present Right. just more ED advertising. At least it's not a Zenith builder. A friend of mine had his address "hijacked", and now it's hard to differentiate between an honest e-mail from him, and a get-rich-quick ad. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Bannister To: zenith-list-digest@matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 10:07 AM Subject: Fwd: Zenith-List: Nice Present I haven't opened this, guessing that it is not really a "nice present" and probably has nothing to do with Zenith airplanes. Right? Jay -----Original Message----- From: tomgiles > To: zenith-list-digest > Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 9:59 am Subject: Zenith-List: Nice Present tomgiles@aol.com It's my pleasure to share this with you http://afrikanspot.com/inf.php Hope you enjoy it! _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:59 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video As someone who had never even touched a rivet gun, I sweated riveting a lot. I ended up buying a 4x sized gun (about $110) and a 1/4 pound of 1" rivets and a rivet cutter from Spruce. I practiced a bit on some cheap stock from Home Depot. I've gotta say the setting those rivets was about the easiest thing I've done as part of the upgrade. It's really cake. It is a 2 person job, and you might want to practice a few rivets with your bucking bar holder. Note that you don't need a 5lb bucking bar with the 4x gun. A "normal" sized one works fine. Doing a good job of drilling out the old rivets is a lot more work, and a lot fussier than installing the new rivets. Good Luck, Ron On Nov 11, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Mike wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years > of...well...flying a spam can instead :) > > Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more > involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to > be installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a > video diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. > Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks, > > Mike Fortunato > 601XL (circa 1999) > Jab 3300 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video From: japhillipsga@aol.com Mike, about the solid rivets. They are not much to do once you get the han g of shooting and bucking. Problem is getting the tools may be a issue. I c an shoot rivets as I have built an RV-8a, but I decided to use AN3 bolts an d nuts instead of solid rivets. ZAC allows for that option. Call Roger at Z AC and ask him. Bunch stronger, costs more, much easier and quicker. A tiny bit heavier. Just another way to do the wings. I finished my up grade to X L-B about a year ago. Added a total of 35 pounds to the plane. Fly's great ! Best regards, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 2:01 pm Subject: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video Hello all, I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a spam can instead :) Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be installed, wh ich I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary of the kit bei ng installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks, Mike Fortunato 601XL (circa 1999) Jab 3300 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.