Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:45 AM - Re: Re: Cracked Canopy (Paul Mulwitz)
2. 03:03 AM - Re: Cracked Canopy (Scotsman)
3. 04:07 AM - Re: Re: Cracked Canopy (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 05:34 AM - Re: polishing (William Dominguez)
5. 06:27 AM - Re: polishing (Carlos Sa)
6. 06:33 AM - Re: polishing (Steve Freeman)
7. 07:25 AM - Re: Cracked Canopy (Scotsman)
8. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: Cracked Canopy (Steve Freeman)
9. 08:25 AM - Re: Re: Cracked Canopy (Paul Mulwitz)
10. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: Cracked Canopy (Paul Mulwitz)
11. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: polishing (Jerry Latimer)
12. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: polishing (Tim Shankland)
13. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: polishing (Keith Ashcraft)
14. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: polishing (Jerry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked Canopy |
I didn't do any riveting on the canopy. All of the points where the
canopy gets fasteners I used screws with tinnerman washers.
Paul
Camas, WA
On 12/29/2011 10:32 PM, Scotsman wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scotsman"<james.Roberts@standardbank.co.za>
>
> How have you guys dealt with riveting on the canopy? The sides of the front
and rear canopy would need to be riveted but after my past experiences cracking
the canopy I am really reluctant to do anything.
>
> Now having learnt from the thread I will use the recommended drill bit and techniques
but I am still worried that the pressure generated by the rivet on the
canopy will cause the canopy to crack.
>
> Any recommendations and practical experience would be gratefully received.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> James
>
> --------
> Cell +27 83 675 0815
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361971#361971
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked Canopy |
Thanks Paul, and in the places where you have to go first through an aluminum piece
and then into the canopy did you just make a large size hole in both the
canopy material and the aluminum skin with the washer seated over the top of the
two?
J
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361980#361980
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked Canopy |
I hate to admit I just don't remember the answer to that question. I
looked at a photo I have on my computer and it seems like I made similar
sized holes in the aluminum and plastic and seated the tinnerman washer
on the outside of the aluminum. On the other hand, I just can't remember.
I'll take a look next time I am at the airport.
Paul
On 12/30/2011 3:01 AM, Scotsman wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scotsman"<james.Roberts@standardbank.co.za>
>
> Thanks Paul, and in the places where you have to go first through an aluminum
piece and then into the canopy did you just make a large size hole in both the
canopy material and the aluminum skin with the washer seated over the top of
the two?
>
> J
>
> --------
> Cell +27 83 675 0815
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361980#361980
>
>
Message 4
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Hi Carlos,
How do you attach the paper towel to the foam? Does it leave swirl marks?
In my trials using Nuvite with a high speed polisher, it leaves swirl marks that
I later removed with an orbital polisher and a fine grade Nuvite.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XLB Plans
Almost done with the wings
Miami Florida
http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/
________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: polishing
Hello, Terry
I never used a wool bonnet with Mother's - it might work, I just never tried. I
am afraid it will create black dust bunnies - not something I am not very fond
of.
I use a 5 " circular pad with velcro hooks on it, then a piece of foam, about 1"
thick, and then the best quality paper towel I can find, cut in 5"x5" squares.
I put the paste on the paper, and work on areas of about 1 to 1.5 square feet at
a time.
When the aluminum is clean from the paste and black residue, I stop, throw the
paper away and get a new one.
And, contrary to the bonnet technique, I lay the paper/foam/disk attachment flat
on against the metal, not at an angle.
It is as fast (or slow) as Nuvite.
Attached a picture of work in progress (tail parts).
The product you found seems to be "it", although the jar I have says the product
# is 35100.
It could be because (1) it is packaged with French and English labels (for Canada)
and / or (2) they changed the product code - I haven't bought one in many
months - the last time was probably summer 2010.
And I was referring to the 5 oz jar; it sells for CA$8 (it used to be CA$7) at
Canadian Tire's Aeronautics dept.
http://tinyurl.com/6p25g2w
Regards
Carlos
On 29 December 2011 22:00, Terry Phillips <ttp444@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Carlos
>
>'Just wondering if you tried the Chinese polishers with the Mothers. If
so, how did it work out? I notice Harbor Freight offers a similar
polisher for $50 right now.
>
>Also, Googling "Mother's mag polishing paste" I find "Mothers 5101 Mag
& Aluminum Polish Paste" in 5 and 10 oz containers. Is that the
product you used? And, if so, are you referring to the 5 or the 10 oz
container?
>
>Your parts look great to me.
>
>Terry
>
Message 5
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Hello, William
The paper stays there just by friction.
Once in a while it will stick to the aluminum and will slip - frequently a
sign that I used too much paste.
Usually there are no swirl marks - but I haven't brought any of these parts
into the sun light yet...
Once in a while I do get swirl marks, but it is usually due to
contamination - aluminum dust left on the bench, for instance.
The work area must be very clean - no different from any other process.
And, of course, I still can finish with the finest grade of Nuvite, if I
think it will make a difference - but I will have avoided the F9 (and C)
mess.
Carlos
On 30 December 2011 08:31, William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Carlos,
>
> How do you attach the paper towel to the foam? Does it leave swirl marks?
>
> In my trials using Nuvite with a high speed polisher, it leaves swirl
> marks that I later removed with an orbital polisher and a fine grade Nuvite.
>
> William Dominguez
> Zodiac 601XLB Plans
> Almost done with the wings
> Miami Florida
> http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/
>
>
Message 6
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Hi Guys,
I have seen many polished planes and I have wondered how you deal with the
sometimes intense reflections of sun light? Here in Phoenix looking at a
polished plane in the summer is like staring right in to the heart of the
sun and can be quite blinding and unpleasant. Do you guys wear any special
eye protection or are dark sunglasses enough?
Steve
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Dominguez
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: polishing
Hi Carlos,
How do you attach the paper towel to the foam? Does it leave swirl marks?
In my trials using Nuvite with a high speed polisher, it leaves swirl marks
that I later removed with an orbital polisher and a fine grade Nuvite.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XLB Plans
Almost done with the wings
Miami Florida
http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/
_____
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: polishing
Hello, Terry
I never used a wool bonnet with Mother's - it might work, I just never
tried. I am afraid it will create black dust bunnies - not something I am
not very fond of.
I use a 5 " circular pad with velcro hooks on it, then a piece of foam,
about 1" thick, and then the best quality paper towel I can find, cut in
5"x5" squares.
I put the paste on the paper, and work on areas of about 1 to 1.5 square
feet at a time.
When the aluminum is clean from the paste and black residue, I stop, throw
the paper away and get a new one.
And, contrary to the bonnet technique, I lay the paper/foam/disk attachment
flat on against the metal, not at an angle.
It is as fast (or slow) as Nuvite.
Attached a picture of work in progress (tail parts).
The product you found seems to be "it", although the jar I have says the
product # is 35100.
It could be because (1) it is packaged with French and English labels (for
Canada) and / or (2) they changed the product code - I haven't bought one in
many months - the last time was probably summer 2010.
And I was referring to the 5 oz jar; it sells for CA$8 (it used to be CA$7)
at Canadian Tire's Aeronautics dept.
http://tinyurl.com/6p25g2w
Regards
Carlos
On 29 December 2011 22:00, Terry Phillips <ttp444@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Carlos
'Just wondering if you tried the Chinese polishers with the Mothers. If so,
how did it work out? I notice Harbor Freight offers a similar polisher for
$50 right now.
Also, Googling "Mother's mag polishing paste" I find "Mothers 5101 Mag &
Aluminum Polish Paste" in 5 and 10 oz containers. Is that the product you
used? And, if so, are you referring to the 5 or the 10 oz container?
Your parts look great to me.
Terry
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked Canopy |
Are you taunting me on purpose...."I'll take a look next time I am at the airport"
[Laughing] [Laughing] I can only go as far as looking next time that I am
passing through my garage! [Crying or Very sad]
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361996#361996
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked Canopy |
<< made similar sized holes in the aluminum and plastic and seated the
tinnerman washer on the outside of the aluminum. >>
And what did you use for a fastener in locations like this?
For instance - on the 650 B - there is a side flashing then the canopy
bubble. If tinnerman washer is used in this location, what is used to
fasten the screw? I was planning on riveting in these locations with my
hand riveter so I could control the force of the pull a little better.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 5:04 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cracked Canopy
I hate to admit I just don't remember the answer to that question. I looked
at a photo I have on my computer and it seems like I made similar sized
holes in the aluminum and plastic and seated the tinnerman washer on the
outside of the aluminum. On the other hand, I just can't remember.
I'll take a look next time I am at the airport.
Paul
On 12/30/2011 3:01 AM, Scotsman wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> --> "Scotsman"<james.Roberts@standardbank.co.za>
>
> Thanks Paul, and in the places where you have to go first through an
aluminum piece and then into the canopy did you just make a large size hole
in both the canopy material and the aluminum skin with the washer seated
over the top of the two?
>
> J
>
> --------
> Cell +27 83 675 0815
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361980#361980
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked Canopy |
No, I'm not taunting you. I just have a bad memory. I did the canopy 3
or 4 years ago.
You may not know - I had to ground my plane for a couple of years just
as it was ready for inspection. That was when the NTSB and FAA joined
forces and asked all owners to ground XLs. Then, I installed the
upgrade in the hangar at the airport. It would have been a lot easier
to do if I could use my shop but I didn't want to haul the plane back to
the shop.
I'm just nearing the end of flight test now. The plane was first flown
in July.
The good news - I have not had any problems with the canopy. That is,
the canopy has stayed in place with no cracks. I did manage to scratch
it - probably while installing the engine cowl. I bought a polishing
kit and will probably fix the scratches next Spring. They are not deep
and they are in a location I don't use to see where I am going.
You'll get there. Just keep working . . .
Paul
On 12/30/2011 7:22 AM, Scotsman wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scotsman"<james.Roberts@standardbank.co.za>
>
> Are you taunting me on purpose...."I'll take a look next time I am at the airport"
[Laughing] [Laughing] I can only go as far as looking next time that I
am passing through my garage! [Crying or Very sad]
>
> --------
> Cell +27 83 675 0815
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361996#361996
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked Canopy |
Hi Steve,
I used the same screws and tinnerman washers at all locations where a
fastener goes through the plastic canopy. I'm afraid riveting through
the plastic will surely cause cracks.
Again I must claim lack of clear memory of exactly what the screws
attached to. The way the screws work they have a tinnerman washer on
the outside and a solid piece of metal (either aluminum or steel) on the
inside with the plastic canopy captured in the middle. I think the self
tapping screws easily go into either steel or aluminum when you have a
proper sized pilot hole in the metal.
I'm not sure, but I think some of the screws go into the thin wall
square tubing that makes up the basic structure of the canopy base.
Paul
On 12/30/2011 7:27 AM, Steve Freeman wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Freeman"<steve.freeman@syntaxds.com>
>
> << made similar sized holes in the aluminum and plastic and seated the
> tinnerman washer on the outside of the aluminum.>>
>
> And what did you use for a fastener in locations like this?
>
> For instance - on the 650 B - there is a side flashing then the canopy
> bubble. If tinnerman washer is used in this location, what is used to
> fasten the screw? I was planning on riveting in these locations with my
> hand riveter so I could control the force of the pull a little better.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 5:04 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cracked Canopy
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz<psm@att.net>
>
> I hate to admit I just don't remember the answer to that question. I looked
> at a photo I have on my computer and it seems like I made similar sized
> holes in the aluminum and plastic and seated the tinnerman washer on the
> outside of the aluminum. On the other hand, I just can't remember.
>
> I'll take a look next time I am at the airport.
>
> Paul
>
> On 12/30/2011 3:01 AM, Scotsman wrote:
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
>> --> "Scotsman"<james.Roberts@standardbank.co.za>
>>
>> Thanks Paul, and in the places where you have to go first through an
> aluminum piece and then into the canopy did you just make a large size hole
> in both the canopy material and the aluminum skin with the washer seated
> over the top of the two?
>> J
>>
>> --------
>> Cell +27 83 675 0815
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361980#361980
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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Carlos,
Looks like you are making good progress. I agree with you the F9 is super
messy. Since my workshop was my garage I had to mop the floors and clean it
up after every work period with the F9 to keep from tracking it into the
house. The C is less messy and the S is really not messy at all. You
really on have to use a small amount of the S.
You mentioned that you are using paper towels with the Mother's and throwing
them away after each use, which was interesting to me. With the S I used
flannel which I purchased at a local fabric store and I also used cut up
sweat shirt material. Both of these worked good and I also changed them out
more often.
Good luck
Jerry
polished 602HDS
http://www.zenith.aero/photo/new-red-stripe?xg_source=activity
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: polishing
Pat, I have looked closely at your pictures - the Zodie looks awesome!
I liked the results you achieved, so much so that it was part of my
motivation for trying Nuvite.
But I think can achieve the same level of "shinyness" with Mother's - with
less mess. Or die trying... ;-)
Seriously, if I am not happy with Mother's results, I can apply the step
after C (is it "S"?), and still avoid F9 and C.
BTW, grade C is much less messy than F9, and I assume S (?) is pretty clean.
Cheers
Carlos
On 29 December 2011 21:58, PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com> wrote:
Here's pictures of mine, just using Nuvite F9 for now. Will use the finer
grades after phase 1 is done.
http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/polish-and-paint
- Pat
--------
Patrick Hoyt
601XLb/Corvair
N63PZ - 99.999% done....
Message 12
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I polished my entire 601HD with Nuvite. The wings had been hanging in my
attic for 7 years. The "trick" I found, which is especially useful for
older aluminum is to lightly coat the metal with mineral spirits( paint
thinner) before you start. This will make the nuvite flow like cream and
give an excellent result. I polish my plane once a year and still start
with a light coat of mineral spirirts.
Tim Shankland
Jerry Latimer wrote:
> Carlos,
>
> Looks like you are making good progress. I agree with you the F9 is
> super messy. Since my workshop was my garage I had to mop the floors
> and clean it up after every work period with the F9 to keep from
> tracking it into the house. The C is less messy and the S is really
> not messy at all. You really on have to use a small amount of the S.
>
> You mentioned that you are using paper towels with the Mother's and
> throwing them away after each use, which was interesting to me. With
> the S I used flannel which I purchased at a local fabric store and I
> also used cut up sweat shirt material. Both of these worked good and
> I also changed them out more often.
>
> Good luck
> Jerry
> polished 602HDS
> http://www.zenith.aero/photo/new-red-stripe?xg_source=activity
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 8:51 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: polishing
>
> Pat, I have looked closely at your pictures - the Zodie looks awesome!
> I liked the results you achieved, so much so that it was part of my
> motivation for trying Nuvite.
>
> But I think can achieve the same level of "shinyness" with Mother's -
> with less mess. Or die trying... ;-)
> Seriously, if I am not happy with Mother's results, I can apply the
> step after C (is it "S"?), and still avoid F9 and C.
>
> BTW, grade C is much less messy than F9, and I assume S (?) is pretty
> clean.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Carlos
>
>
> On 29 December 2011 21:58, PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com
> <mailto:pwhoyt@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:pwhoyt@yahoo.com>>
>
> Here's pictures of mine, just using Nuvite F9 for now. Will use
> the finer grades after phase 1 is done.
>
> http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/polish-and-paint
>
> - Pat
>
> --------
> Patrick Hoyt
> 601XLb/Corvair
> N63PZ - 99.999% done....
>
>
>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 13
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Did you add the Red stripe after the polishing? How did you prep the surfac
e if you did?=0A=0AKeith=0ACH701 - scratch 70% done=0A*********************
****************************************=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________
_________=0A From: Jerry Latimer <jlatimer1@cox.net>=0ATo: zenith-list@matr
onics.com =0ASent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:47 PM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith
-List: Re: polishing=0A =0A=0ACarlos,=0A-=0ALooks like you are making goo
d progress.- I agree with =0Ayou the F9 is super messy.- Since my works
hop was my garage I had to mop =0Athe floors and clean it up after every wo
rk period with the F9 to keep from =0Atracking it into the house.- The C
is less messy and the S is really not =0Amessy at all.- You really on hav
e to use a small amount of the =0AS.=0A-=0AYou mentioned that you are usi
ng paper towels with the =0AMother's and throwing them away after each use,
which was interesting to =0Ame.- With the S I used flannel which I purch
ased at a local fabric store =0Aand I also used cut up sweat shirt material
.- Both of these worked good and =0AI also changed them out more often.
=0A-=0AGood luck=0AJerry =0Apolished 602HDS=0Ahttp://www.zenith.aero/phot
o/new-red-stripe?xg_source=activity=0A=0A=0A_____________________________
___=0A From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-zenith
-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos =0ASa=0ASent: Thursday, Dec
ember 29, 2011 8:51 PM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Zenit
h-List: Re: =0Apolishing=0A=0APat, I have looked closely at your pictures -
the Zodie looks =0Aawesome!=0AI liked the results you achieved, so much so
that it was part of my =0Amotivation for trying Nuvite.=0A=0ABut I think c
an achieve the same level of =0A"shinyness" with Mother's - with less mess.
Or die trying... ;-)=0ASeriously, if I am not happy with Mother's results,
I can apply the step after C (is =0Ait "S"?), and still avoid F9 and C.=0A
=0ABTW, grade C is much less messy than =0AF9, and I assume S (?) is pretty
=0Aclean.=0A=0ACheers=0A=0A=0ACarlos=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 29 December 2011 21:58,
"PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>=0A>=0A>Here's pictures of mine, just =0A us
ing Nuvite F9 for now. -Will use the finer grades after phase 1 is =0A d
one.=0A>=0A>http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/polish-and-paint=0A>=0A>-
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Message 14
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The red stripe was added after polishing. It is a vinyl graphic for cars. Surface
prep was just a wipe down with denatured alcohol. I chose the graphic because
I wanted something that I could change later on. I felt if I painted it
on I would be not be able to go back to a totally polished airplane due to the
surface etching required for painting.
Steve, There are sometimes in the summer that the reflection from the wings can
bother me. I generally just fly a slightly different heading. I also purchased
some cheap sunshades that are used in cars. They have suction cups and I
can move them around to block the reflection if it really gets to be annoying.
I really haven't had to do that yet.
Jerry
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