---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/23/12: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:33 AM - Re: Sensitive Elevator (andrewtub) 2. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Sensitive Elevator (Larry McFarland) 3. 04:40 PM - Re: Sensitive Elevator (andrewtub) 4. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: Sensitive Elevator (Steve Freeman) 5. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Sensitive Elevator (FLYaDIVE) 6. 06:34 PM - Re: Sensitive Elevator (andrewtub) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:39 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator From: "andrewtub" I know this is an old subject to most but new to me. Here in my in put on the issue that i have sent to Zenith for approval.... This improvement is a in order to help de-sensitize the elevator and better balance the controls. Bare with me as I explain and forgive me if the is something that has been reviewed in the past. Also this is with the dual stick option. According to the geometry of all the cable and rod attachment points at the elevator and the control stick, the deflection of the elevator is equal to the deflection on the control stick. Before the reduction of down throw to in the elev, the elev and stick deflections were both 52-62 degrees. Now that the Elev throw is 42-47 degrees so is the control stick. My goal is to regain the 52-62 degree deflection of the stick and maintain the 42-47 degree deflection of the Elev. This will make the pilot move the stick more (with less force) in order to have the same amount of deflection in the Elev...thus desensitizing the elev. After some CAD work I have determined the the 5/16 hole in the horn of part number 6-ds-2-2 will now be 92.5mm from the center of the rotational axis of 6-ds-2-opposeded to the original 130mm hole location indicated on print 6-DS-2. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367075#367075 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:17 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator Hi Andrew, It sounds like you haven't completed your aircraft if drilling more holes and such are being contemplated. I 'd recommend you stay with the drawing. The reduction you mention would result in load-changes that would put more force on your control stick. This would cause you to lose the very control sensitivity needed for the elevator. Most people flying the Zeniths comment that "the elevator has a lot of authority" and requires only small movements during maneuvering, landing etc. Decreasing the stick throw while increasing the force seems contrary to your need and perhaps a safety issue. Respectfully, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrewtub Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:32 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator I know this is an old subject to most but new to me. Here in my in put on the issue that i have sent to Zenith for approval.... This improvement is a in order to help de-sensitize the elevator and better balance the controls. Bare with me as I explain and forgive me if the is something that has been reviewed in the past. Also this is with the dual stick option. According to the geometry of all the cable and rod attachment points at the elevator and the control stick, the deflection of the elevator is equal to the deflection on the control stick. Before the reduction of down throw to in the elev, the elev and stick deflections were both 52-62 degrees. Now that the Elev throw is 42-47 degrees so is the control stick. My goal is to regain the 52-62 degree deflection of the stick and maintain the 42-47 degree deflection of the Elev. This will make the pilot move the stick more (with less force) in order to have the same amount of deflection in the Elev...thus desensitizing the elev. After some CAD work I have determined the the 5/16 hole in the horn of part number 6-ds-2-2 will now be 92.5mm from the center of the rotational axis of 6-ds-2-opposeded to the original 130mm hole location indicated on print 6-DS-2. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367075#367075 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:49 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator From: "andrewtub" Larry, What I am talking about is the opposite of what your concern is. This change will require less stick force and have more stick travel. The more stick travel will equal that of the original design while the elev deflection would meet the new specs. Here's my deal. I hear all these opinions about.. just fly it for 10-15 he's and you will get used to it. Why should I get used to an undesirable trait of the plane when I have the opportunity to fix it now. I will still have the required elev deflection and better input resolution. AT Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367098#367098 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:51 PM PST US From: "Steve Freeman" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator << an undesirable trait of the plane >> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrewtub Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 5:40 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator Larry, What I am talking about is the opposite of what your concern is. This change will require less stick force and have more stick travel. The more stick travel will equal that of the original design while the elev deflection would meet the new specs. Here's my deal. I hear all these opinions about.. just fly it for 10-15 he's and you will get used to it. Why should I get used to an undesirable trait of the plane when I have the opportunity to fix it now. I will still have the required elev deflection and better input resolution. AT Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367098#367098 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator From: FLYaDIVE It is NOT an undesirable trait. What is undesirable is that 99% of the pilots out there learned on a SLOPPY C-152. THAT DOES have undesirable characteristics. What you suggest is that you could run out of stick. On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 7:39 PM, andrewtub wrote: > > Larry, What I am talking about is the opposite of what your concern is. > > This change will require less stick force and have more stick travel. The > more stick travel will equal that of the original design while the elev > deflection would meet the new specs. > > Here's my deal. I hear all these opinions about.. just fly it for 10-15 > he's and you will get used to it. Why should I get used to an undesirable > trait of the plane when I have the opportunity to fix it now. I will still > have the required elev deflection and better input resolution. > > AT > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367098#367098 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator From: "andrewtub" Seriously, I had no intention to fuel a fire. It's just a mere suggestion to better a feature of the plane. In allot of the reviews I read it is mentioned that the controls could be more balanced. I get the same from three local zodiac pilots. Why not try to improve when the opportunity is there? In response to running out of stick... the elev will still have full range of motion to the up and down stops specified by zenith. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367106#367106 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.