Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:19 AM - 601HD comfort (McCarthy Tom)
2. 05:27 AM - 601HD Flaps (McCarthy Tom)
3. 05:42 AM - Control Balance (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
4. 05:52 AM - Re: 601HD comfort (Larry McFarland)
5. 06:03 AM - Re: 601HD Flaps (Larry McFarland)
6. 06:57 AM - Re: Control Balance (Andrew Tuberville)
7. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: Sensitive Elevator (Bryan Martin)
8. 08:01 AM - Re: 601HD comfort (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 08:09 AM - Re: Control Balance (Paul Mulwitz)
10. 08:50 AM - Re: Control Balance (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
11. 09:13 AM - Re: 601HD comfort (GERALD A. APPLEFELD)
12. 09:27 AM - Re: Control Balance (Paul Mulwitz)
13. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Sensitive Elevator (Jeff Davidson)
14. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Sensitive Elevator (Paul Mulwitz)
15. 11:06 AM - Re: Re: Sensitive Elevator (Steve Russell)
16. 03:39 PM - Exhaust (Steve Freeman)
17. 03:50 PM - Re: Exhaust (Craig Payne)
18. 04:25 PM - Re: Exhaust (Steve Freeman)
Message 1
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Now that I see some activity on the list I thought I would pose a
question to the listers. I fly and enjoy a 601HD. I am 6' tall and
around 210lbs, which I fit ok, if it were not for lower back problems.
I had an occasion to sit in a 601XL last week, and it felt like I was in
a Lazboy in comparison. I thought the only difference was the spar
thickness, but it felt like the canopy was higher allowing for more
padding in the seat. It also felt like there was more leg distance to
the rudders, which I need as well. I have tried every combination of
foam in my seats, but the pressure on my lower back when seated is just
too much. My question is, has anyone tried to change the seat back for
more room? Maybe cutting a curve in the deck and changing the seat pan?
I have several ideas, but would like to hear from others that might have
gone before me. I am aware that my ideas will affect the CG, but in my
build, I have room to play.
Tom McCarthy
N514TM 601HD 300 hours
Message 2
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I am looking for some opinions on adding flaps to my 601HD. Many years
ago, I saw a picture where this was done, but have no idea if it was
effective in any way. For most flying, I would agree that they are not
necessary. The plane stalls at 44 MPH and lands extremely easy. But, I
like to fly into short/rough strips where lowering the stall 5 or 6MPH
could make a difference. This will probably bring up a VG discussion,
which I might also pursue. I cannot remember reading anyone report how
effective they work on an HD wing, I just don't want to sacrifice any on
the cruise, so the flap Idea comes to mind first.
Tom McCarthy
N514TM 601HD 300Hrs
Message 3
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List
There are four 601's in my area. When we were doing the "B" mods three of us went
to push rods on the ailerons. Also one friend added 4" to the top of the stick
on the pilots side. This helped on aileron pressure. He likes it, I don't
care for it. Another friend changed the ratio of the bell cranks which gave more
stick movement per travel on the ailerons. This I liked but not enough to take
my plane out of service long enough to make the change ( probably only a couple
of days ). Most pilots I take for rides adapt to the sensitive pitch in
just a few minutes. These planes are experimental AMATEUR built. If you are professional
enough to make safe changes it is your responsibility, if not check
with the designer or stick to the plans.
Bobby
601 XL B
3300 Jabiru
143 hrs and logging
Message 4
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Hi Tom,
There was some information on moving the edge of the tray back to afford a 2
to 3 inch advantage for tall people early on. I think you could easily
revise the tray and re-angle the seat back structure to accommodate the
clearance if you wanted to.
My HDS plans didn't have that information at the time, so one could only
thin the padding and seat back thickness to achieve the result. At 6'-1" and
197 lbs., my HDS is a fine fit and comfortable, but one could always use
more space.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McCarthy Tom
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 7:19 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD comfort
Now that I see some activity on the list I thought I would pose a question
to the listers. I fly and enjoy a 601HD. I am 6' tall and around 210lbs,
which I fit ok, if it were not for lower back problems. I had an occasion
to sit in a 601XL last week, and it felt like I was in a Lazboy in
comparison. I thought the only difference was the spar thickness, but it
felt like the canopy was higher allowing for more padding in the seat. It
also felt like there was more leg distance to the rudders, which I need as
well. I have tried every combination of foam in my seats, but the pressure
on my lower back when seated is just too much. My question is, has anyone
tried to change the seat back for more room? Maybe cutting a curve in the
deck and changing the seat pan? I have several ideas, but would like to hear
from others that might have gone before me. I am aware that my ideas will
affect the CG, but in my build, I have room to play.
Tom McCarthy
N514TM 601HD 300 hours
Message 5
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Tom,
The addition of VGs on the bottom side of the elevator would help you get
more control in lowering the stall a bit. VGs are very effective on the
wings for stall reduction and shouldn't slow the cruise.
I believe VGs would be the more effective route considering the effort
involved in adding flaps. Kelly Meiste had VGs on his HD and probably
commented on them in the Matronics archives.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McCarthy Tom
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 7:27 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD Flaps
I am looking for some opinions on adding flaps to my 601HD. Many years ago,
I saw a picture where this was done, but have no idea if it was effective in
any way. For most flying, I would agree that they are not necessary. The
plane stalls at 44 MPH and lands extremely easy. But, I like to fly into
short/rough strips where lowering the stall 5 or 6MPH could make a
difference. This will probably bring up a VG discussion, which I might also
pursue. I cannot remember reading anyone report how effective they work on
an HD wing, I just don't want to sacrifice any on the cruise, so the flap
Idea comes to mind first.
Tom McCarthy
N514TM 601HD 300Hrs
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Control Balance |
Bobby,=0A-=0AIm very close to being done with my b mods and will be looki
ng at other "upgrades" while I have it in the shop.- I do not like the fa
ct that you are required to check the Aile cable tension before each flight
.- You-mentioned the three XL's that went to the push rod setup. Can yo
u point me in the right direction as far as the materials-I need to order
?-=0A-=0AAlso, just in case you did not see it, Zenith will be releasin
g a modification in the 650 prints that will better balance the controls.
-=0A=0AThanks,=0AAndrew =0A=0A=0AFrom: "BobbyPaulk@comcast.net" <BobbyPau
lk@comcast.net>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, February
25, 2012 7:41 AM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Control Balance=0A=0A=0AList=0ATh
ere are four 601's in my area. When we were doing the "B" mods three of us
went to push rods on the ailerons. Also one friend added 4" to the top of t
he stick on the pilots side. This helped on aileron pressure. He likes it,
I don't care for it. Another friend changed the ratio of the bell cranks wh
ich gave more stick movement per travel on the ailerons. This I liked but n
ot enough to take my plane out of service long enough to make the change (
probably only a couple of days ). Most pilots I take for rides adapt to the
sensitive pitch in just a few minutes. These planes are experimental AMATE
UR built. If you are professional enough to make safe changes it is your re
sponsibility, if not check with the designer or stick to the plans. =0A=0AB
=========
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sensitive Elevator |
As far as "single throttle - dual throttle" is concerned: The original plans call
for a throttle on each side so a pilot flying from either seat can work the
throttle with his non off stick hand. I did not particularly like the complexity
of the dual throttle setup and I wanted to install a vernier throttle.
The thing I like about a vernier throttle is the fact that you don't have to adjust
a friction control to keep the throttle from drifting from its setting, the
throttle will stay where you put it without any further consideration. You
can also fine tune the throttle setting by turning the knob. A vernier throttle
installed on one side would render the second throttle control inoperative unless
you rigged up something to release the lock on the vernier throttle. I found
that a while sitting in the right seat I could reach the throttle on the
left side of the panel if I changed hands on the Y-stick and reached across with
my left hand. It wasn't ideal but it wasn't difficult and I didn't plan on
flying the plane solo from the right seat anyway. So I eliminated all the mechanism
associated with the dual throttle and just ran a single control cable through
the firewall to connect to the carburetors.
As far as the dual brakes are concerned, unless you are planning on flying solo
from the right seat, they would be of limited usefulness. They might be useful
if a passenger had to land the plane in the event of pilot incapacitation, but
that's a pretty rare event. A long grass runway would probably solve that issue.
On Feb 24, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Steve Freeman wrote:
> Hi Phil
>
> Can you elaborate on single throttle Dual throttle Issue. What about Single
Brakes dual brakes. I am spending a great deal of time and effort installing
dual brakes and I am beginning to think it not worth it.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
do not archive.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD comfort |
Hi Tom,
My understanding is the XL is a foot longer than the HD. Perhaps this
explains the additional room.
I have an XL and don't know exactly how the HD seat is done. In the XL
there really is no seat back. Rather the rear of the seat is the same
part as the front of the baggage compartment floor. I added a small
sheet of plywood to fill in the "Back" of the seat, but this isn't
really necessary.
I'm sorry this doesn't give you an answer to your back pain problem.
Perhaps you need to trade your HD for an XL. If you do, make sure the
upgrade is installed so the wings stay put.
Paul
Camas, WA
XL in flight test.
On 2/25/2012 5:18 AM, McCarthy Tom wrote:
> Now that I see some activity on the list I thought I would pose a
> question to the listers. I fly and enjoy a 601HD. I am 6' tall and
> around 210lbs, which I fit ok, if it were not for lower back problems.
> I had an occasion to sit in a 601XL last week, and it felt like I was
> in a Lazboy in comparison. I thought the only difference was the spar
> thickness, but it felt like the canopy was higher allowing for more
> padding in the seat. It also felt like there was more leg distance to
> the rudders, which I need as well. I have tried every combination of
> foam in my seats, but the pressure on my lower back when seated is
> just too much. My question is, has anyone tried to change the seat
> back for more room? Maybe cutting a curve in the deck and changing the
> seat pan? I have several ideas, but would like to hear from others
> that might have gone before me. I am aware that my ideas will affect
> the CG, but in my build, I have room to play.
>
> Tom McCarthy
> N514TM 601HD 300 hours
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Control Balance |
Andrew,
I wouldn't lose sleep checking the aileron cable tension for each flight
- especially after installing the upgrade. I do check for play in the
actual aileron movement when I do my preflight inspection, but so far I
have not found anything suggesting the cables become lose with time.
I am afraid the whole aileron cable tension story was a figment of
someone's imagination to explain the structure failures rather than a
design problem.
Paul
Camas, WA
XL in phase 1 flight test.
On 2/25/2012 6:55 AM, Andrew Tuberville wrote:
> Bobby,
> Im very close to being done with my b mods and will be looking at
> other "upgrades" while I have it in the shop. I do not like the fact
> that you are required to check the Aile cable tension before each
> flight. You mentioned the three XL's that went to the push rod setup.
> Can you point me in the right direction as far as the materials I need
> to order?
> Also, just in case you did not see it, Zenith will be releasing a
> modification in the 650 prints that will better balance the controls.
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
> *From:* "BobbyPaulk@comcast.net" <BobbyPaulk@comcast.net>
> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 25, 2012 7:41 AM
> *Subject:* Zenith-List: Control Balance
>
> List
> There are four 601's in my area. When we were doing the "B" mods three
> of us went to push rods on the ailerons. Also one friend added 4" to
> the top of the stick on the pilots side. This helped on aileron
> pressure. He likes it, I don't care for it. Another friend changed the
> ratio of the bell cranks which gave more stick movement per travel on
> the ailerons. This I liked but not enough to take my plane out of
> service long enough to make the change ( probably only a couple of
> days ). Most pilots I take for rides adapt to the sensitive pitch in
> just a few minutes. These planes are experimental AMATEUR built. If
> you are professional enough to make safe changes it is your
> responsibility, if not check with the designer or stick to the plans.
>
> Bobby
> 601 XL B
> 3300 Jabiru
> 143 hrs and logging
> *
>
> el=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Control Balance |
Paul said
"I am afraid the whole aileron cable tension story was a figment of
someone's imagination to explain the structure failures rather than a design
problem."
With all due respect how can you say that?
After nearly the entire fleet having done the upgrade and not 1 single
report of any structural problems found after opening up the wing and the NTSB
conclusion of flutter you are still of the opinion that cable tension and
unbalanced ailerons weren't the culprit? I would be intrigued to hear your
explanation of how the plane just tears apart in the air without a
catastrophic event leading up to it.
Jeff
In a message dated 2/25/2012 11:10:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
psm@att.net writes:
Andrew,
I wouldn't lose sleep checking the aileron cable tension for each flight -
especially after installing the upgrade. I do check for play in the
actual aileron movement when I do my preflight inspection, but so far I have not
found anything suggesting the cables become lose with time.
I am afraid the whole aileron cable tension story was a figment of
someone's imagination to explain the structure failures rather than a design
problem.
Paul
Camas, WA
XL in phase 1 flight test.
On 2/25/2012 6:55 AM, Andrew Tuberville wrote:
Bobby,
Im very close to being done with my b mods and will be looking at other
"upgrades" while I have it in the shop. I do not like the fact that you are
required to check the Aile cable tension before each flight. You mentioned
the three XL's that went to the push rod setup. Can you point me in the
right direction as far as the materials I need to order?
Also, just in case you did not see it, Zenith will be releasing a modi
fication in the 650 prints that will better balance the controls.
Thanks,
Andrew
From: _"BobbyPaulk@comcast.net"_ (mailto:BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
_<BobbyPaulk@comcast.net>_ (mailto:BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 7:41 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Control Balance
List
There are four 601's in my area. When we were doing the "B" mods three of
us went to push rods on the ailerons. Also one friend added 4" to the top
of the stick on the pilots side. This helped on aileron pressure. He likes
it, I don't care for it. Another friend changed the ratio of the bell cranks
which gave more stick movement per travel on the ailerons. This I liked
but not enough to take my plane out of service long enough to make the change
( probably only a couple of days ). Most pilots I take for rides adapt to
the sensitive pitch in just a few minutes. These planes are experimental
AMATEUR built. If you are professional enough to make safe changes it is your
responsibility, if not check with the designer or stick to the plans.
Bobby
601 XL B
3300 Jabiru
143 hrs and logging
el=nofollow target=_blank>_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD comfort |
Tom,
After flying my 601 HD for a while I found the seat back too straight-up
for my comfort. I moved the baggage shelf\angles, etc back about 2
inches. Remade all the seat supports and feel the comfort level is much
better. I'm only 5'10" so except when seats are cold in the winter (my
foam gets hard in cold, softens as it warms) I have plenty of head
room. I did not consult Chris before I made the mod but saw him at
Oshkosh this year, he took a look and said it was no problem.
Jerry
On 2/25/2012 8:18 AM, McCarthy Tom wrote:
> Now that I see some activity on the list I thought I would pose a
> question to the listers. I fly and enjoy a 601HD. I am 6' tall and
> around 210lbs, which I fit ok, if it were not for lower back problems.
> I had an occasion to sit in a 601XL last week, and it felt like I was
> in a Lazboy in comparison.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Control Balance |
Jeff,
I'm truly sorry I mentioned my opinion on this subject in a public
forum. I know there are a lot of people who believe, on a religious
level, that the original design was just fine. I don't.
The standard you suggested of finding damage inside wings is just not
the right one to determine whether or not there was a design problem.
Your notion depends on the idea that slow deterioration was behind the
structure failures. I think the failures were instantaneous peak loads
that caused the spars to fail. There would be no warning signs in wings
that didn't reach the critical peak load.
My own trip down the design failure path started when I was assembling
my fuselage. I noticed that the main landing gear uprights were
attached to the upper longerons but the wing attach uprights were not.
This looked like a design oversight to me. I contacted the factory and
asked about adding gussets to this area. They approved the change but
did not comment on whether or not it was needed. You should keep in
mind that by this time the alleged designer of the XL had already
retired to France but there were no (or only a few) failures that had
taken place.
After the NTSB recommended grounding the XL fleet the FAA guys who
approve part 23 designs went over the XL design and found it lacking.
They got Zenair/Zenith/AMD to develop a design upgrade in the background
while the FAA public position was not announced. When the next plane
fell apart (long after the letter from C.H. suggesting aileron cable
tensions were to be watched) the already completed design change was
released by AMD and the FAA demanded all planes should install the
change before being flown again. By that time the part 23 review
engineers at the FAA had already reviewed the upgrade and found it was
sufficient to make the XL design sound. The only part of this story
that leaves me wondering is the fact that another XL owner/operator had
to die to get these bureaucrats to "Come out" and demand the change be
installed in all the XLs.
Oops, I left out one other part of this story that leaves me wondering.
The FAA guys released a 40 page document which they thought spelled out
what I said above. Alas, their language was so far from normal people's
usage it seems nobody but them and a few aviation engineers understood
that was their conclusion. Put differently, they thought the whole
world knew the design was bad long before the design changes were made
available to fleet owners.
The real way to evaluate the design upgrade, in my opinion, is to look
at the accident records for upgraded airframes and compare it to ones
without the upgrade. So far that is easy to do. None of the upgraded
planes have suffered structure failures. We don't know how many
upgraded planes are flying now, but I'm sure there are a bunch.
I hope that clears up at least my opinion on the whole design flaw and
upgrade issue. Perhaps anyone who wants to discuss details of this
issue would write to me privately so we don't have to hold the
discussion in the public forum.
Paul
Camas, WA
On 2/25/2012 8:47 AM, Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote:
> Paul said
> "I am afraid the whole aileron cable tension story was a figment of
> someone's imagination to explain the structure failures rather than a
> design problem."
> With all due respect how can you say that?
> After nearly the entire fleet having done the upgrade and not 1 single
> report of any structural problems found after opening up the wing and
> the NTSB conclusion of flutter you are still of the opinion that cable
> tension and unbalanced ailerons weren't the culprit? I would be
> intrigued to hear your explanation of how the plane just tears apart
> in the air without a catastrophic event leading up to it.
> Jeff
> In a message dated 2/25/2012 11:10:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> psm@att.net writes:
>
> Andrew,
>
> I wouldn't lose sleep checking the aileron cable tension for each
> flight - especially after installing the upgrade. I do check for
> play in the actual aileron movement when I do my preflight
> inspection, but so far I have not found anything suggesting the
> cables become lose with time.
>
> I am afraid the whole aileron cable tension story was a figment of
> someone's imagination to explain the structure failures rather
> than a design problem.
>
> Paul
> Camas, WA
> XL in phase 1 flight test.
>
> On 2/25/2012 6:55 AM, Andrew Tuberville wrote:
>> Bobby,
>> Im very close to being done with my b mods and will be looking at
>> other "upgrades" while I have it in the shop. I do not like the
>> fact that you are required to check the Aile cable tension before
>> each flight. You mentioned the three XL's that went to the push
>> rod setup. Can you point me in the right direction as far as the
>> materials I need to order?
>> Also, just in case you did not see it, Zenith will be releasing a
>> modification in the 650 prints that will better balance the
>> controls.
>> Thanks,
>> Andrew
>>
>> *From:* "BobbyPaulk@comcast.net" <BobbyPaulk@comcast.net>
>> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 25, 2012 7:41 AM
>> *Subject:* Zenith-List: Control Balance
>>
>> List
>> There are four 601's in my area. When we were doing the "B" mods
>> three of us went to push rods on the ailerons. Also one friend
>> added 4" to the top of the stick on the pilots side. This helped
>> on aileron pressure. He likes it, I don't care for it. Another
>> friend changed the ratio of the bell cranks which gave more stick
>> movement per travel on the ailerons. This I liked but not enough
>> to take my plane out of service long enough to make the change (
>> probably only a couple of days ). Most pilots I take for rides
>> adapt to the sensitive pitch in just a few minutes. These planes
>> are experimental AMATEUR built. If you are professional enough to
>> make safe changes it is your responsibility, if not check with
>> the designer or stick to the plans.
>>
>> Bobby
>> 601 XL B
>> 3300 Jabiru
>> 143 hrs and logging
>> *
>>
>> el=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
> ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Sensitive Elevator |
My take on the throttle question was the consideration of two pilots flying together.
A throttle on each side made it easy. You could put one throttle in the
middle, but then you need two sticks rather than the center stick with the
Y. I addessed the friction lock concern by removing the fiction bushing from
the right seat throttle. Only the left friction lock is operative. That was
a five minute job prior to installation. The only concern with the dual throttle
setup was needing slots in the firewall for the cables going to the throttle
rod. The plans showed a hole thru the firewall but the cable rises and falls
flexing the firewall. I used a small bellows to seal the slot and n66 to line
it for a very nice feel. The throttle rod was from USJabiru but I made attachments
per the Zenith plans to capture the rod ends mechanically.
Jeff Davidson
CH601-HD/Jab 3300A
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Sensitive Elevator |
Hi Jeff,
I agree with you about having two throttles when the plane has a center
Y stick. I tried the UsJabiru approach and didn't like it. I copied
their basic idea but moved the torque tube inside the cabin with the
control arms facing down rather than up. I also mounted the throttle
controls on the side of the cabin instead of on the instrument panel.
That way guys with short arms like mine could still rest their hand on
the throttle control in normal flight. The finished layout has both
throttle knobs, the torque tube arm ends, and the carburetor all at
about the same height. This allows for very smooth throttle control
movement.
I left the friction locks on both throttle knobs. So far I have only
flown my plane solo, so I don't know if this will be a problem or not.
I will keep your idea in mind of removing the friction lock from the
copilot side if this becomes a problem.
Paul
Camas, WA
XL in phase I flight test
On 2/25/2012 10:18 AM, Jeff Davidson wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeff Davidson<jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
>
> My take on the throttle question was the consideration of two pilots flying together.
A throttle on each side made it easy. You could put one throttle in
the middle, but then you need two sticks rather than the center stick with the
Y. I addessed the friction lock concern by removing the fiction bushing from
the right seat throttle. Only the left friction lock is operative. That was
a five minute job prior to installation. The only concern with the dual throttle
setup was needing slots in the firewall for the cables going to the throttle
rod. The plans showed a hole thru the firewall but the cable rises and falls
flexing the firewall. I used a small bellows to seal the slot and n66 to
line it for a very nice feel. The throttle rod was from USJabiru but I made
attachments per the Zenith plans to capture the rod ends mechanically.
> Jeff Davidson
> CH601-HD/Jab 3300A
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Sensitive Elevator |
Hey Jeff, how about some drawings, it sounds interesting.
Steve Russell
701 Continental
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 12:55:49 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator
Hi Jeff,
I agree with you about having two throttles when the plane has a center
Y stick. I tried the UsJabiru approach and didn't like it. I copied
their basic idea but moved the torque tube inside the cabin with the
control arms facing down rather than up. I also mounted the throttle
controls on the side of the cabin instead of on the instrument panel.
That way guys with short arms like mine could still rest their hand on
the throttle control in normal flight. The finished layout has both
throttle knobs, the torque tube arm ends, and the carburetor all at
about the same height. This allows for very smooth throttle control
movement.
I left the friction locks on both throttle knobs. So far I have only
flown my plane solo, so I don't know if this will be a problem or not.
I will keep your idea in mind of removing the friction lock from the
copilot side if this becomes a problem.
Paul
Camas, WA
XL in phase I flight test
On 2/25/2012 10:18 AM, Jeff Davidson wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeff Davidson<jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
>
> My take on the throttle question was the consideration of two pilots flying together.
A throttle on each side made it easy. You could put one throttle in
the middle, but then you need two sticks rather than the center stick with the
Y. I addessed the friction lock concern by removing the fiction bushing from
the right seat throttle. Only the left friction lock is operative. That was
a five minute job prior to installation. The only concern with the dual throttle
setup was needing slots in the firewall for the cables going to the throttle
rod. The plans showed a hole thru the firewall but the cable rises and falls
flexing the firewall. I used a small bellows to seal the slot and n66 to
line it for a very nice feel. The throttle rod was from USJabiru but I made
attachments per the Zenith plans to capture the rod ends mechanically.
> Jeff Davidson
> CH601-HD/Jab 3300A
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 16
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Hi List,
I wanted to let you all know that if you are in need of exhaust pipes for
your project try customer aircraft parts. 800-561-1901.
I bought my 0235 engine from ZAC and it did not come with exhaust. Matt
Heintz recommended this company and they did exactly as they promised.
Delivered on the exact day they specified and the pipes fit perfectly and
will make my cowl installation a lot easier.
Just wanted to let you all know that I had an exceptional customer service
experience with them.
Steve Freeman
Message 17
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> I wanted to let you all know that if you are in need of exhaust pipes for
your project try customer aircraft parts. 800-561-1901.
I believe their name is *Custom* Aircraft Parts. The phone number matches:
http://www.customaircraft.com/
-- Craig
Message 18
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Yes CUSTOM Aircraft Parts. Sorry for the Type. Ask for Clinton. You can't
go wrong.
Clinton Anderson
Custom Aircraft Parts
14374 Olde Hwy 80
El Cajon CA 92021
800-561-1901
619-561-5757
619-561-5177 Fax
clinton@customaircraft.com
www.customaircraft.com
Steve
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Exhaust
> I wanted to let you all know that if you are in need of exhaust pipes for
your project try customer aircraft parts. 800-561-1901.
I believe their name is *Custom* Aircraft Parts. The phone number matches:
http://www.customaircraft.com/
-- Craig
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