Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:49 AM - Re: Zenith/Matronics/Europe poll (Sabrina)
2. 02:39 PM - Drill speed choice (rayj)
3. 03:07 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Steve Freeman)
4. 03:29 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Larry McFarland)
5. 03:33 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Carlos Sa)
6. 04:02 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (rayj)
7. 04:18 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Brad Rawls)
8. 04:40 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Carlos Sa)
9. 04:48 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (JohnDRead@aol.com)
10. 04:50 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (rayj)
11. 05:02 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (rayj)
12. 05:28 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (SyntaxDS)
13. 06:06 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Paul Mulwitz)
14. 06:13 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Paul Mulwitz)
15. 10:09 PM - Wag-Aero combination radio (JohnDRead@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith/Matronics/Europe poll |
Hello from Istanbul!
I was just sent this by a mentor (30+ years with the FAA) who writes SciFi comic
books...
According to Amazon.com: "The story about a young girl that builds spaceships,
flies to Mars, saves the Earth from a very large asteroid that she captures, puts
in orbit above the Earth ,builds a space elevator above her home in Texas,
and also builds three space elevators on the moon and one on the planet Mars
has lots of adventures while traveling around the solar system. She is befriended
by a humpback whale and saves lots of whales."
If I look really serious, it is because the photo was taken at Ground Zero, shortly
after 911.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369588#369588
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/faa_119.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/911faa_160.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Drill speed choice |
Greetings listers,
I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit
for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always
heard that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there
a down side to turning the bit that fast?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
--
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
Message 3
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| Subject: | Drill speed choice |
I cannot speak to the technical aspect of this question but having drilled
about a million holes on two different ZAC projects. You want a drill that
is light and feels good in your hand. I use a Hitachi BSL1815X It is an
18V Lithium-Ion Battery drill. This drill "is the bomb." Nicely balanced,
not to heavy, not to light Has a little light on the front and is more than
fast enough for whatever you will do on that project. This was about $140
it Lowes but worth every penny and I am a tight ass on those kind of things
as (don) can tell you!
Also - I use a right angle pneumatic drill for tight locations. I cannot
imagine doing this project without it, or something similar.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 2:39 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice
Greetings listers,
I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit for a
750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard that
faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a down side to
turning the bit that fast?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
--
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have
to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
Message 4
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| Subject: | Drill speed choice |
Hi Ray,
I'd recommend you get a drill that offers the best low speed control for
starting the drill. I've often just established the center point by slow
drilling until it stayed there.
Higher speeds offer little advantage for most drilling, but the newer
lithium drills might be a better choice if controls are good. I used a
Black and Decker with one pair
of 14.4 V batteries for my whole 601HDS scratch build and at 8 years after
flying it, the batteries finally got rebuilt at Batteries Plus. The beat up
looking drill is still going strong.
Moral: Don't over spend for a drill or buy batteries that are too heavy just
to get big voltage.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:39 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice
Greetings listers,
I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit for a
750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard that
faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a down side to
turning the bit that fast?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
--
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have
to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Drill speed choice |
Somewhere in the ZAC documentation there's a recommendation about drill
speed, I just can't remember what the it is.
But I can give you a suggestion or two, if you are thinking of electric
cordless drills: when I am drilling a lot of holes in one working session,
I find that a lighter drill is preferable. This used to mean the highest
voltage are not in the game - but the recent technology may have
invalidated this rule of thumb.
I also prefer a drill that you can reverse rotation easily: I have a pair
of Craftsman that have this switch in the perfect spot.
Here's one similar to mine (I suppose they don't make the one I have
anymore):
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00917310000P?prdNo=2
The switch is under the word Craftsman (more precisely, under "AFTS").
It also has a switch that allows you to lower the speed and increase
torque. I don't use it a lot, but can come in handy.
And one more thing: I started with one drill, then the batteries died.
Instead of buying new batteries, I bought another drill exactly like the
first one (not much difference in price - batteries were/are very
expensive), so I could use the two new batteries in either drill. So, I can
now have bits of different sizes installed, and it speeds up the
"production line".
Good luck
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 30 March 2012 17:38, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> Greetings listers,
>
> I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit for
> a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard that
> faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a down side
> to turning the bit that fast?
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
> --
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Drill speed choice |
Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic drill
just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points all of you
made are valid. I already have a variety of drills.
The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit
turns the closer to round the hole is. I'll look around on the zenith
site a little more. The drill they provide is a pneumatic that spins at
3600 rpm, so I would like something at least that fast.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/30/2012 04:38 PM, rayj wrote:
>
> Greetings listers,
>
> I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit
> for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard
> that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a
> down side to turning the bit that fast?
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Drill speed choice |
Ray -
I bought the 3,600 RPM Sioux drill when I started my 601. I also have a 18V
lith. Cordless drill that I use for 80% of the holes I drill. The air drill
is nice when you need to drill out something long like the spar, but is a
pain a lot of the time for the thin sheets we are drilling. Also, when
working in the garage late at night, turning on the compressor and the noise
of the air drill is a real bother, hose can be a pain too. Best way to get
a round hole is drilling to size in 3 steps (3/32, 1/8, 5/32).
Thanks - Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice
Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic drill just
for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points all of you made are
valid. I already have a variety of drills.
The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit turns
the closer to round the hole is. I'll look around on the zenith site a
little more. The drill they provide is a pneumatic that spins at
3600 rpm, so I would like something at least that fast.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have
to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/30/2012 04:38 PM, rayj wrote:
>
> Greetings listers,
>
> I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit
> for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always
> heard that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is
> there a down side to turning the bit that fast?
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Drill speed choice |
You might be interested in this article:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
Carlos
On 30 March 2012 19:01, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic drill
> just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points all of you made
> are valid. I already have a variety of drills.
>
> The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit turns
> the closer to round the hole is. .......
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Drill speed choice |
Buy the small Sioux, it has great sped control.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
In a message dated 3/30/2012 5:03:04 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
raymondj@frontiernet.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic drill
just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points all of you
made are valid. I already have a variety of drills.
The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit
turns the closer to round the hole is. I'll look around on the zenith
site a little more. The drill they provide is a pneumatic that spins at
3600 rpm, so I would like something at least that fast.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/30/2012 04:38 PM, rayj wrote:
>
> Greetings listers,
>
> I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit
> for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard
> that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a
> down side to turning the bit that fast?
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Drill speed choice |
Good article, thanks. I'm not sure I'm willing to drill every rivet
hole 2 or 3 times, once is going to be plenty.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/30/2012 06:38 PM, Carlos Sa wrote:
> You might be interested in this article:
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
>
> Carlos
>
> On 30 March 2012 19:01, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>>
>
> Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic
> drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points
> all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills.
>
> The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit
> turns the closer to round the hole is. .......
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Drill speed choice |
Thanks to all. I guess I should have done my research before I posted
the question. Thanks for your help and sorry for taking up your time.
I found a nice page with some very useful info. It answered my question
in nothing flat. Hope someone else will find it useful.
> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/CuttingSpeeds.php#Drilling
The answer to my question is that I can use the 6000 rpm up to a 1/4"
bit diameter (which is the chuck size) without exceeding the recommend
sf/m for 6061-t6.
Thanks again to all,
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/30/2012 06:49 PM, rayj wrote:
>
> Good article, thanks. I'm not sure I'm willing to drill every rivet hole
> 2 or 3 times, once is going to be plenty.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>
> On 03/30/2012 06:38 PM, Carlos Sa wrote:
>> You might be interested in this article:
>> http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> On 30 March 2012 19:01, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>
>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>>
>>
>> Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic
>> drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points
>> all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills.
>>
>> The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit
>> turns the closer to round the hole is. .......
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Drill speed choice |
Just remember you aren't building the space shuttle. Build safe, build smart and
remember if you modify the plans even a little bit it can add countless hours
to your project and ZAC will be of very little assistance if you do. Try and
do one thing a day no matter how small.
Happy building
Steve Freeman
On Mar 30, 2012, at 5:02 PM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks to all. I guess I should have done my research before I posted the question.
Thanks for your help and sorry for taking up your time.
>
> I found a nice page with some very useful info. It answered my question in nothing
flat. Hope someone else will find it useful.
>
>> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/CuttingSpeeds.php#Drilling
>
> The answer to my question is that I can use the 6000 rpm up to a 1/4" bit diameter
(which is the chuck size) without exceeding the recommend sf/m for 6061-t6.
>
> Thanks again to all,
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>
> On 03/30/2012 06:49 PM, rayj wrote:
>>
>> Good article, thanks. I'm not sure I'm willing to drill every rivet hole
>> 2 or 3 times, once is going to be plenty.
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>>
>> On 03/30/2012 06:38 PM, Carlos Sa wrote:
>>> You might be interested in this article:
>>> http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
>>>
>>> Carlos
>>>
>>> On 30 March 2012 19:01, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
>>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic
>>> drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points
>>> all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills.
>>>
>>> The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit
>>> turns the closer to round the hole is. .......
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Drill speed choice |
Raymond,
I think the key to getting round holes is to start with a small pilot
hole (#40) and step drill with ever larger drill bits until you get the
size you want. This is more important than the drill speed. For my
Zodiac I started all holes with #40 then used #30, #20, #10, etc until
the proper final hole size was reached.
For the drill motor, I think the most important issue is portability and
comfort. That means using an electric variable speed drill - probably
18V - that is the most comfortable you can find. A trip to the store
and "Trying on" all the choices is in order. No matter what motor you
use you will need to deburr the holes before riveting them. This might
be easier with a higher speed drill but that is not a central issue.
For drill bits the only way to go is 14 x 28 threaded bits. You can get
them at most good cutting tool stores and also at places like Aircraft
Spruce. The reason for using these drill bits is they won't get stuck
at the end of the hole. The thread gets tighter rather than slipping
when it binds. It is very hard to hold a #40 jobber drill in a chuck so
it won't spin. You need at least one holder for the bits. You can make
your own from 3/8 steel (or larger) or you can buy all sorts of kits
with an assortment of threaded holders.
I suggest you buy a hand full of #40 bits (I like cobalt, but HSS is OK)
and 2 or 3 of the other sizes thru #10. You will break a bunch of the
#40 bits but the others last almost forever.
One last point - you will save a lot of money and feel good about
yourself if you learn to resharpen drill bits on a grinding wheel. This
is reasonably easy to do by hand or you can waste a hundred bucks or so
on a Drill Doctor.
Good luck,
Paul
Zodiac XL, in flight test
On 3/30/2012 4:01 PM, rayj wrote:
>
> Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic drill
> just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points all of you
> made are valid. I already have a variety of drills.
>
> The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit
> turns the closer to round the hole is. I'll look around on the zenith
> site a little more. The drill they provide is a pneumatic that spins
> at 3600 rpm, so I would like something at least that fast.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>
> On 03/30/2012 04:38 PM, rayj wrote:
>>
>> Greetings listers,
>>
>> I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit
>> for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard
>> that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a
>> down side to turning the bit that fast?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any advice.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Drill speed choice |
Raymond,
Your idea of drilling each hole once sounds good but doesn't work.
You need to "Match drill" holes with your pilot drill to get reasonably
lined up holes in multiple pieces of metal for drilling. Then you "Line
drill" them with larger drill bits to get perfectly lined up holes in
the pieces to be riveted. You will find the "Line Drilling" to be quick
and easy. The pieces are held together with Clecos while doing this
process. After drilling the stack to the final hole size you need to
take it apart and deburr all the sheets of metal. After reassembly you
fasten the stack together with rivets.
Have fun,
Paul
On 3/30/2012 4:49 PM, rayj wrote:
>
> Good article, thanks. I'm not sure I'm willing to drill every rivet
> hole 2 or 3 times, once is going to be plenty.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>
> On 03/30/2012 06:38 PM, Carlos Sa wrote:
>> You might be interested in this article:
>> http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> On 30 March 2012 19:01, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>
>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>>
>>
>> Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic
>> drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points
>> all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills.
>>
>> The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit
>> turns the closer to round the hole is. .......
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Wag-Aero combination radio |
Hello all,
I have been given a Wag-Aero combination radio. The unit has
NAV COM and Intercom all in one box. There is also a large rechargeable
battery in the unit. I cannot find any part numbers on the unit neither do I
have a schematic. Any one have any idea what this unit is or have a part
number. Thanks
Regards, John Read
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
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