---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/30/12: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:49 AM - Re: Zenith/Matronics/Europe poll (Sabrina) 2. 02:39 PM - Drill speed choice (rayj) 3. 03:07 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Steve Freeman) 4. 03:29 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Larry McFarland) 5. 03:33 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Carlos Sa) 6. 04:02 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (rayj) 7. 04:18 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Brad Rawls) 8. 04:40 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Carlos Sa) 9. 04:48 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (JohnDRead@aol.com) 10. 04:50 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (rayj) 11. 05:02 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (rayj) 12. 05:28 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (SyntaxDS) 13. 06:06 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Paul Mulwitz) 14. 06:13 PM - Re: Drill speed choice (Paul Mulwitz) 15. 10:09 PM - Wag-Aero combination radio (JohnDRead@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:21 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith/Matronics/Europe poll From: "Sabrina" Hello from Istanbul! I was just sent this by a mentor (30+ years with the FAA) who writes SciFi comic books... According to Amazon.com: "The story about a young girl that builds spaceships, flies to Mars, saves the Earth from a very large asteroid that she captures, puts in orbit above the Earth ,builds a space elevator above her home in Texas, and also builds three space elevators on the moon and one on the planet Mars has lots of adventures while traveling around the solar system. She is befriended by a humpback whale and saves lots of whales." If I look really serious, it is because the photo was taken at Ground Zero, shortly after 911. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369588#369588 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/faa_119.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/911faa_160.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:41 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Greetings listers, I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a down side to turning the bit that fast? Thanks in advance for any advice. -- Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:26 PM PST US From: "Steve Freeman" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice I cannot speak to the technical aspect of this question but having drilled about a million holes on two different ZAC projects. You want a drill that is light and feels good in your hand. I use a Hitachi BSL1815X It is an 18V Lithium-Ion Battery drill. This drill "is the bomb." Nicely balanced, not to heavy, not to light Has a little light on the front and is more than fast enough for whatever you will do on that project. This was about $140 it Lowes but worth every penny and I am a tight ass on those kind of things as (don) can tell you! Also - I use a right angle pneumatic drill for tight locations. I cannot imagine doing this project without it, or something similar. Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Greetings listers, I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a down side to turning the bit that fast? Thanks in advance for any advice. -- Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:17 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Hi Ray, I'd recommend you get a drill that offers the best low speed control for starting the drill. I've often just established the center point by slow drilling until it stayed there. Higher speeds offer little advantage for most drilling, but the newer lithium drills might be a better choice if controls are good. I used a Black and Decker with one pair of 14.4 V batteries for my whole 601HDS scratch build and at 8 years after flying it, the batteries finally got rebuilt at Batteries Plus. The beat up looking drill is still going strong. Moral: Don't over spend for a drill or buy batteries that are too heavy just to get big voltage. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:39 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Greetings listers, I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a down side to turning the bit that fast? Thanks in advance for any advice. -- Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:20 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Somewhere in the ZAC documentation there's a recommendation about drill speed, I just can't remember what the it is. But I can give you a suggestion or two, if you are thinking of electric cordless drills: when I am drilling a lot of holes in one working session, I find that a lighter drill is preferable. This used to mean the highest voltage are not in the game - but the recent technology may have invalidated this rule of thumb. I also prefer a drill that you can reverse rotation easily: I have a pair of Craftsman that have this switch in the perfect spot. Here's one similar to mine (I suppose they don't make the one I have anymore): http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00917310000P?prdNo=2 The switch is under the word Craftsman (more precisely, under "AFTS"). It also has a switch that allows you to lower the speed and increase torque. I don't use it a lot, but can come in handy. And one more thing: I started with one drill, then the batteries died. Instead of buying new batteries, I bought another drill exactly like the first one (not much difference in price - batteries were/are very expensive), so I could use the two new batteries in either drill. So, I can now have bits of different sizes installed, and it speeds up the "production line". Good luck Carlos CH601-HD, plans On 30 March 2012 17:38, rayj wrote: > > Greetings listers, > > I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit for > a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard that > faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a down side > to turning the bit that fast? > > Thanks in advance for any advice. > -- > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:32 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills. The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit turns the closer to round the hole is. I'll look around on the zenith site a little more. The drill they provide is a pneumatic that spins at 3600 rpm, so I would like something at least that fast. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/30/2012 04:38 PM, rayj wrote: > > Greetings listers, > > I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit > for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard > that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a > down side to turning the bit that fast? > > Thanks in advance for any advice. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:17 PM PST US From: "Brad Rawls" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Ray - I bought the 3,600 RPM Sioux drill when I started my 601. I also have a 18V lith. Cordless drill that I use for 80% of the holes I drill. The air drill is nice when you need to drill out something long like the spar, but is a pain a lot of the time for the thin sheets we are drilling. Also, when working in the garage late at night, turning on the compressor and the noise of the air drill is a real bother, hose can be a pain too. Best way to get a round hole is drilling to size in 3 steps (3/32, 1/8, 5/32). Thanks - Brad -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:02 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills. The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit turns the closer to round the hole is. I'll look around on the zenith site a little more. The drill they provide is a pneumatic that spins at 3600 rpm, so I would like something at least that fast. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/30/2012 04:38 PM, rayj wrote: > > Greetings listers, > > I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit > for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always > heard that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is > there a down side to turning the bit that fast? > > Thanks in advance for any advice. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:24 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice You might be interested in this article: http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html Carlos On 30 March 2012 19:01, rayj wrote: > > Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic drill > just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points all of you made > are valid. I already have a variety of drills. > > The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit turns > the closer to round the hole is. ....... > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:48 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Buy the small Sioux, it has great sped control. Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 In a message dated 3/30/2012 5:03:04 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, raymondj@frontiernet.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: rayj Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills. The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit turns the closer to round the hole is. I'll look around on the zenith site a little more. The drill they provide is a pneumatic that spins at 3600 rpm, so I would like something at least that fast. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/30/2012 04:38 PM, rayj wrote: > > Greetings listers, > > I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit > for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard > that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a > down side to turning the bit that fast? > > Thanks in advance for any advice. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:07 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Good article, thanks. I'm not sure I'm willing to drill every rivet hole 2 or 3 times, once is going to be plenty. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/30/2012 06:38 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: > You might be interested in this article: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html > > Carlos > > On 30 March 2012 19:01, rayj > wrote: > > > > > Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic > drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points > all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills. > > The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit > turns the closer to round the hole is. ....... > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:51 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Thanks to all. I guess I should have done my research before I posted the question. Thanks for your help and sorry for taking up your time. I found a nice page with some very useful info. It answered my question in nothing flat. Hope someone else will find it useful. > http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/CuttingSpeeds.php#Drilling The answer to my question is that I can use the 6000 rpm up to a 1/4" bit diameter (which is the chuck size) without exceeding the recommend sf/m for 6061-t6. Thanks again to all, Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/30/2012 06:49 PM, rayj wrote: > > Good article, thanks. I'm not sure I'm willing to drill every rivet hole > 2 or 3 times, once is going to be plenty. > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > > On 03/30/2012 06:38 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: >> You might be interested in this article: >> http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html >> >> Carlos >> >> On 30 March 2012 19:01, rayj > > wrote: >> >> > >> >> Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic >> drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points >> all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills. >> >> The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit >> turns the closer to round the hole is. ....... >> >> >> * >> >> >> * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice From: SyntaxDS Just remember you aren't building the space shuttle. Build safe, build smart and remember if you modify the plans even a little bit it can add countless hours to your project and ZAC will be of very little assistance if you do. Try and do one thing a day no matter how small. Happy building Steve Freeman On Mar 30, 2012, at 5:02 PM, rayj wrote: > > Thanks to all. I guess I should have done my research before I posted the question. Thanks for your help and sorry for taking up your time. > > I found a nice page with some very useful info. It answered my question in nothing flat. Hope someone else will find it useful. > >> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/CuttingSpeeds.php#Drilling > > The answer to my question is that I can use the 6000 rpm up to a 1/4" bit diameter (which is the chuck size) without exceeding the recommend sf/m for 6061-t6. > > Thanks again to all, > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > > On 03/30/2012 06:49 PM, rayj wrote: >> >> Good article, thanks. I'm not sure I'm willing to drill every rivet hole >> 2 or 3 times, once is going to be plenty. >> >> Raymond Julian >> Kettle River, MN >> >> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, >> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine >> >> On 03/30/2012 06:38 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: >>> You might be interested in this article: >>> http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html >>> >>> Carlos >>> >>> On 30 March 2012 19:01, rayj >> > wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic >>> drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points >>> all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills. >>> >>> The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit >>> turns the closer to round the hole is. ....... >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:19 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Raymond, I think the key to getting round holes is to start with a small pilot hole (#40) and step drill with ever larger drill bits until you get the size you want. This is more important than the drill speed. For my Zodiac I started all holes with #40 then used #30, #20, #10, etc until the proper final hole size was reached. For the drill motor, I think the most important issue is portability and comfort. That means using an electric variable speed drill - probably 18V - that is the most comfortable you can find. A trip to the store and "Trying on" all the choices is in order. No matter what motor you use you will need to deburr the holes before riveting them. This might be easier with a higher speed drill but that is not a central issue. For drill bits the only way to go is 14 x 28 threaded bits. You can get them at most good cutting tool stores and also at places like Aircraft Spruce. The reason for using these drill bits is they won't get stuck at the end of the hole. The thread gets tighter rather than slipping when it binds. It is very hard to hold a #40 jobber drill in a chuck so it won't spin. You need at least one holder for the bits. You can make your own from 3/8 steel (or larger) or you can buy all sorts of kits with an assortment of threaded holders. I suggest you buy a hand full of #40 bits (I like cobalt, but HSS is OK) and 2 or 3 of the other sizes thru #10. You will break a bunch of the #40 bits but the others last almost forever. One last point - you will save a lot of money and feel good about yourself if you learn to resharpen drill bits on a grinding wheel. This is reasonably easy to do by hand or you can waste a hundred bucks or so on a Drill Doctor. Good luck, Paul Zodiac XL, in flight test On 3/30/2012 4:01 PM, rayj wrote: > > Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic drill > just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points all of you > made are valid. I already have a variety of drills. > > The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit > turns the closer to round the hole is. I'll look around on the zenith > site a little more. The drill they provide is a pneumatic that spins > at 3600 rpm, so I would like something at least that fast. > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > > On 03/30/2012 04:38 PM, rayj wrote: >> >> Greetings listers, >> >> I've been lurking for a number of years and am about to order the kit >> for a 750. I'm trying to decide which drill to buy. I have always heard >> that faster is better so I'm looking at a 6000 rpm drill. Is there a >> down side to turning the bit that fast? >> >> Thanks in advance for any advice. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:43 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill speed choice Raymond, Your idea of drilling each hole once sounds good but doesn't work. You need to "Match drill" holes with your pilot drill to get reasonably lined up holes in multiple pieces of metal for drilling. Then you "Line drill" them with larger drill bits to get perfectly lined up holes in the pieces to be riveted. You will find the "Line Drilling" to be quick and easy. The pieces are held together with Clecos while doing this process. After drilling the stack to the final hole size you need to take it apart and deburr all the sheets of metal. After reassembly you fasten the stack together with rivets. Have fun, Paul On 3/30/2012 4:49 PM, rayj wrote: > > Good article, thanks. I'm not sure I'm willing to drill every rivet > hole 2 or 3 times, once is going to be plenty. > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > > On 03/30/2012 06:38 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: >> You might be interested in this article: >> http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html >> >> Carlos >> >> On 30 March 2012 19:01, rayj > > wrote: >> >> > >> >> Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking at a dedicated pneumatic >> drill just for drilling al for the kit build. Many of the points >> all of you made are valid. I already have a variety of drills. >> >> The reason I'm asking is that as I understand it, the faster the bit >> turns the closer to round the hole is. ....... >> >> >> * >> >> >> * > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:16 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Wag-Aero combination radio Hello all, I have been given a Wag-Aero combination radio. The unit has NAV COM and Intercom all in one box. There is also a large rechargeable battery in the unit. I cannot find any part numbers on the unit neither do I have a schematic. Any one have any idea what this unit is or have a part number. Thanks Regards, John Read CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.