---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/10/12: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: Control Balance (Cont.) (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 2. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Control Balance (Cont.) (Ronald Steele) 3. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Control Balance (Cont.) (Gary Ray) 4. 04:47 PM - Ch601XL POH (Bob Haring) 5. 04:53 PM - Re: Ch601XL POH (Jay Bannister) 6. 05:02 PM - Re: Ch601XL POH (Bob Haring) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:09 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Control Balance (Cont.) It seems to me they did this because the left to right stick movement was drastically reduced after the upgrade and this seems like it would give some of that back but it also seems like you lose leverage by moving the hole closer to the pivot point. In a message dated 4/8/2012 11:58:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, psm@att.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Steve, I haven't noticed any issue lately with aileron response on my Zodiac XL. I did notice it was a bit stiff on the demonstrator - my first time in the model - many years ago. My style of flying doesn't really pay any attention to how much force I must use to get the attitude changes I want. I would only notice a lack of "Harmony" if I had difficulty getting the plane to respond. The XL is quite sensitive in pitch. This may be a result of the very light weight and high speeds. Elevator trim is also very sensitive and stability is very low. That means setting the trim doesn't prevent rather large changes in airspeed with turbulence or just mean spiritedness. All that said, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have the aileron response on the XL improved a bit. It has much smaller ailerons than the other Zodiacs. If I am not mistaken, only the XL has flaps which take up a considerable length of the wing length. Paul Camas, WA On 4/8/2012 7:57 AM, Steve Freeman wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Freeman" > > Good Morning guys... > > It has been a long time since I have flown left seat in a 601 product but I > have many hours right seat in a HDS. In the 601HDS the aileron (hingeless) > control is incredibly responsive. Almost too sensitive. I can't imagine a > need to make it more responsive. I am currently building a 650 and will be > starting the wings soon. Does the 601XL/650 have different characteristics > in this respect? I know ZAC changed things up some but having already an HDS > myself I don't see anything that would cause dramatic change. Of all of the > little tweaks and changes me and my friend Don have discussed over the years > none of them have had anything to do with aileron sensitivity. This is one > area that seems to need no improvement...at least on the HDS product. > > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaveG601XL > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 7:22 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Control Balance (Cont.) > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" > --> > > William, > > Thanks for pointing out my omission. I have the flex, or hingeless > ailerons. This is the worse case that would benefit the most from the new > bellcrank. > > -------- > David Gallagher > Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now > Next project under construction: Aircamper > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370283#370283 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:38 AM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Control Balance (Cont.) Moving the hole closer to the pivot increases leverage; more stick movement per degree of aileron deflection equals more leverage. To be redundant. the changes to the control horn should a: require more stick movement for the same amount of aileron deflection, b: decrease the amount of force required to move the stick. To be doubly redundant. So if you like or require less left/right stick movement with higher forces required, don't make the change. If you think you are working too hard moving the stick left/right and you have clearance on all parts of the system, then this change makes good sense. Ron On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote: > It seems to me they did this because the left to right stick movement was drastically reduced after the upgrade and this seems like it would give some of that back but it also seems like you lose leverage by moving the hole closer to the pivot point. > > In a message dated 4/8/2012 11:58:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, psm@att.net writes: > > Hi Steve, > > I haven't noticed any issue lately with aileron response on my Zodiac > XL. I did notice it was a bit stiff on the demonstrator - my first time > in the model - many years ago. > > My style of flying doesn't really pay any attention to how much force I > must use to get the attitude changes I want. I would only notice a lack > of "Harmony" if I had difficulty getting the plane to respond. > > The XL is quite sensitive in pitch. This may be a result of the very > light weight and high speeds. Elevator trim is also very sensitive and > stability is very low. That means setting the trim doesn't prevent > rather large changes in airspeed with turbulence or just mean spiritedness. > > All that said, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have the aileron response > on the XL improved a bit. It has much smaller ailerons than the other > Zodiacs. If I am not mistaken, only the XL has flaps which take up a > considerable length of the wing length. > > Paul > Camas, WA > > On 4/8/2012 7:57 AM, Steve Freeman wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Freeman" > > > > Good Morning guys... > > > > It has been a long time since I have flown left seat in a 601 product but I > > have many hours right seat in a HDS. In the 601HDS the aileron (hingeless) > > control is incredibly responsive. Almost too sensitive. I can't imagine a > > need to make it more responsive. I am currently building a 650 and will be > > starting the wings soon. Does the 601XL/650 have different characteristics > > in this respect? I know ZAC changed things up some but having already an HDS > > myself I don't see anything that would cause dramatic change. Of all of the > > little tweaks and changes me and my friend Don have discussed over the years > > none of them have had anything to do with aileron sensitivity. This is one > > area that seems to need no improvement...at least on the HDS product. > > > > Steve > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaveG601XL > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 7:22 AM > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Control Balance (Cont.) > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" > > --> > > > > William, > > > > Thanks for pointing out my omission. I have the flex, or hingeless > > ailerons. This is the worse case that would benefit the most from the new > > bellcrank. > > > > -------- > > David Gallagher > > Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now > > Next project under construction: Aircamper > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370283#370283 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:15 AM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Control Balance (Cont.) Can you be more specific about your left to right drastically reduced stick movement. I have a 601XL-B finished and flying. I do not have any reduction in the left to right control stick movement. Mostly I noticed some additional inertia in the ailerons due to the increase in mass from balancing the control. Otherwise it flies the same. Gary Ray From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Control Balance (Cont.) It seems to me they did this because the left to right stick movement was drastically reduced after the upgrade and this seems like it would give some of that back but it also seems like you lose leverage by moving the hole closer to the pivot point. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Ch601XL POH From: Bob Haring After to m any years of building, my project (CH601xl N107RW) is about done. If there is anyone out there that has a downloadable POH I would appreciate a reply.It sure would save re-inventing the wheel.Thanks. Bob Haring,Niagara Falls,NY ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ch601XL POH From: Jay Bannister Bob, It would be helpful to know what engine you have; since a very large part of any POH deals with and is specific to a particular engine. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Bob Haring Sent: Tue, Apr 10, 2012 6:49 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Ch601XL POH After to m any years of building, my project (CH601xl N107RW) is about done. If there is anyone out there that has a downloadable POH I would appreciate a reply.It sure would save re-inventing the wheel.Thanks. Bob Haring,Niagara Falls,NY ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ch601XL POH From: Bob Haring Jay, My engine is the Jab 3300 Bob zman601xl@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Jay Bannister Sent: Tue, Apr 10, 2012 6:53 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ch601XL POH Bob, It would be helpful to know what engine you have; since a very large part of any POH deals with and is specific to a particular engine. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Bob Haring Sent: Tue, Apr 10, 2012 6:49 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Ch601XL POH After to m any years of building, my project (CH601xl N107RW) is about done. If there is anyone out there that has a downloadable POH I would appreciate a reply.It sure would save re-inventing the wheel.Thanks. 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