---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/10/12: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:41 AM - Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Carlos Sa) 2. 07:17 AM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Russell Johnson) 3. 07:25 AM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Carlos Sa) 4. 07:47 AM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Jerry) 5. 07:54 AM - Re: front fuselage (Jerry Latimer) 6. 08:27 AM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Carlos Sa) 7. 08:46 AM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Carlos Sa) 8. 08:52 AM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Steven Freeeman) 9. 09:07 AM - Re: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Jay Bannister) 10. 09:15 AM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Carlos Sa) 11. 09:16 AM - Re: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Carlos Sa) 12. 09:41 AM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Larry McFarland) 13. 09:45 AM - Re: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Steven Freeeman) 14. 10:01 AM - Re: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Paul Mulwitz) 15. 10:33 AM - Re: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Carlos Sa) 16. 11:05 AM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Steven Freeeman) 17. 01:40 PM - Oshkosh (Joe) 18. 02:53 PM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly () 19. 03:10 PM - Re: Fw: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly (Larry McFarland) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:31 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly I took more pictures and a short movie: http://www.flickr.com/photos/54366879@N06/ Maybe this will joggle the memory of CH601-HD(S) builders... Carlos ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Hello, folks My aluminum stack is finally starting to resemble an aircraft (if you have a lot of imagination, that is): http://www.zenith.aero/photo/img-6058 When I put the front side skins in place (just to have an idea of what it would look like), I noticed the interference between the side skins, heel support and floor (the rolled end of the floor). The attached pics show the offending area. The instructions simply say "trim as required" (or something like that). To me, it seems I'll have to remove a semi-circle one or two inches in diameter - as I haven't seen any comments about this, I am a little concerned. I also have looked at a few of the CH601 sites still on-line, but I did not find any picture or comment that would clarify this. Thanks in advance for your comments / suggestions Carlos CH601-HD, plans ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:00 AM PST US From: Russell Johnson Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Carlos: - Did you use a 10mm radius on the bottom wing skin? - Russell ++++++++++++++++++++++++ When I put the front side skins in place (just to have an idea of what it w ould look like), I noticed the interference between the side skins, heel su pport and floor (the rolled end of the floor). Carlos CH601-HD, plans ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:22 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly yup, checked again last night: cut a piece of paper and put it on top - exactly 10 cm radius. On 10 July 2012 10:14, Russell Johnson wrote: > Carlos: > > Did you use a 10mm radius on the bottom wing skin? > > Russell > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:05 AM PST US From: Jerry Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Carlos, I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins. Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos. Jerry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:54 AM PST US From: "Jerry Latimer" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: front fuselage Carlos, Here are 2 more photos without the fuselage skins in place. Jerry ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:14 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks! On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry wrote: > Carlos, > I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) > of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember > having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing > nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between > it and the front fuselage skins. > > Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos. > Jerry ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:29 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly I was raised and educated in metric, and can talk imperial (with a bit of an accent). And can make mistakes in any of these systems. Like this one. You ask if I used 10 *mm*, I reply, yessir, 10* cm*. Reducing the radius will remove a bunch of material and eliminate the problem. A huge *thank you* to you Russell !!!!!!!! Carlos On 10 July 2012 11:11, Russell Johnson wrote: > Did you use MM or CM? > *1 centimeter = 0.393700787 inches* *1 millimeter = 0.0393700787 inches* > --- On *Tue, 7/10/12, Carlos Sa * wrote: > > > From: Carlos Sa > Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012, 9:22 AM > > yup, checked again last night: cut a piece of paper and put it on top - > exactly 10 cm radius. > > On 10 July 2012 10:14, Russell Johnson > > wrote: > > Carlos: > > Did you use a 10mm radius on the bottom wing skin? > > Russell > > ** > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:09 AM PST US From: "Steven Freeeman" Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS model? If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you.having done both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. The new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don't get me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it. Steve From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks! On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry wrote: Carlos, I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins. Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos. Jerry ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly From: Jay Bannister When building, I was amused by some of ZAC's dimensions, such as 25.2mm o r 33.7mm. The sharpest Sharpie (Ultra Fine) mark I have is about 0.5mm wid e and the "fat" Sharpie (Fine) is about 2mm wide. I defy anyone to measur e 25.2mm, mark that with a Sharpie and be confident that they have a 0.2mm accuracy.. -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Sa nics.com> Sent: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 10:49 am Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly I was raised and educated in metric, and can talk imperial (with a bit of a n accent). And can make mistakes in any of these systems. Like this one. You ask if I used 10 mm, I reply, yessir, 10 cm. Reducing the radius will remove a bunch of material and eliminate the probl em. A huge thank you to you Russell !!!!!!!! Carlos On 10 July 2012 11:11, Russell Johnson wrote: Did you use MM or CM? 1 centimeter = 0.393700787 inches 1 millimeter = 0.0393700787 inches --- On Tue, 7/10/12, Carlos Sa wrote: From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly yup, checked again last night: cut a piece of paper and put it on top - exa ctly 10 cm radius. On 10 July 2012 10:14, Russell Johnson wrote: Carlos: Did you use a 10mm radius on the bottom wing skin? Russell ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:45 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Hello, Steve Yes, the folks at ZAC continue to be *very* helpful. And the main gear is ready, so no changes... It's been too long, I gotta get this thing in the air! Best Carlos On 10 July 2012 11:49, Steven Freeeman wrote: > This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS > model? **** > > ** ** > > If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use > the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you=85having d one > both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. T he > new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don=92t get > me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not > 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it.**** > > ** ** > > Steve**** > > ** > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:21 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Very well said (written) !!! On 10 July 2012 12:04, Jay Bannister wrote: > When building, I was amused by some of ZAC's dimensions, such as 25.2mm > or 33.7mm. The sharpest Sharpie (Ultra Fine) mark I have is about 0.5mm > wide and the "fat" Sharpie (Fine) is about 2mm wide. I defy anyone to > measure 25.2mm, mark that with a Sharpie and be confident that they have a > 0.2mm accuracy.. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:56 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Steve, I'd take issue with the claim that the new leaf gear is an improvement. It is for the XL, but I think the strength of the mains on the large center spar wing have a serious advantage for the HDS series. The leaf gear flex tends to give the XL an eccentric wobble. It weighs lots more. The original takes a bit more to install, but the original gear is superior to the leaf even if the leaf looks easier to install. If you're building an HDS, stay with the original design gear. You'll notice the difference when you get in serious crosswind landings and also feel the gear stay aligned when you grease it on with one wheel down in a landing. You stay straight and don't get tossed off center by the design of the leaf. I've lifted one and didn't like the heft of it at all. Felt like 50 plus pounds. The original must be at least half the weight of the new one-piece gear. The wing span of the HDS won't like the extra weight either. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Freeeman Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:50 AM Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS model? If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you.having done both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. The new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don't get me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it. Steve From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks! On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry wrote: Carlos, I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins. Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos. Jerry http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:18 AM PST US From: "Steven Freeeman" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly We are not building the Space Shuttle here folks! Steve From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:14 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Very well said (written) !!! On 10 July 2012 12:04, Jay Bannister wrote: When building, I was amused by some of ZAC's dimensions, such as 25.2mm or 33.7mm. The sharpest Sharpie (Ultra Fine) mark I have is about 0.5mm wide and the "fat" Sharpie (Fine) is about 2mm wide. I defy anyone to measure 25.2mm, mark that with a Sharpie and be confident that they have a 0.2mm accuracy.. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:59 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly I certainly hope not! Space shuttles have a bad history of killing people. Paul On 7/10/2012 9:42 AM, Steven Freeeman wrote: > > We are not building the Space Shuttle here folks! > > Steve > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:16 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly We aren't?!? Darn ! What do I do with all those thermal tiles now? On 10 July 2012 12:42, Steven Freeeman wrote: > We are not building the Space Shuttle here folks!**** > > ** ** > > Steve > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:10 AM PST US From: "Steven Freeeman" Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Hi Larry, I would agree with everything you write regarding weight. I can't speak to the cross wind tendencies. With that said having installed both and landed on both I disagree with a couple of your points. I believe ZAC changed the design for a reason. And anyone who has followed my rants knows I do not always agree with ZAC. The wheels supplied with the new gear are better and are real airplane tires. Seeing the quality of your craftsmanship I cannot believe you would disagree with that. The original equipment works fine though. I have only flown left seat in an HDS two times and XL once. All of my other time has been right seat in Don Honabach's 601HDS and a few flights in others. The HDS I built is currently flying in Australia I had to sell it when I hit a financial brick wall in 2003. I am currently about 85% done with fuselage on a 650. I should have clarified my point.but I did say "consider" not that I necessarily recommend. To each his own. I do believe the design is superior in theory. In application it might be who prefers which flavor. As far as the additional weight goes.I have seen guys easily 75 pounds (or more) overweight talk about not using this or that on an airplane because it might weigh a half a pound more or less than another piece of equipment. This conversation always amuses me. Having recently lost 60 pounds (promptly put 30 back on) I can speak to this exercise as well. Sometimes I think the best place any of us can lose weight on our airplanes is by taking it off our own rear ends. I am not suggesting (for even a moment) that applies to anyone on this list.It is simply something I have observed at many airplane functions over the years. I was referring primarily to the install and eventual upkeep. Replacing those bungees will be a bear when the time comes. Steve From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:38 AM Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Steve, I'd take issue with the claim that the new leaf gear is an improvement. It is for the XL, but I think the strength of the mains on the large center spar wing have a serious advantage for the HDS series. The leaf gear flex tends to give the XL an eccentric wobble. It weighs lots more. The original takes a bit more to install, but the original gear is superior to the leaf even if the leaf looks easier to install. If you're building an HDS, stay with the original design gear. You'll notice the difference when you get in serious crosswind landings and also feel the gear stay aligned when you grease it on with one wheel down in a landing. You stay straight and don't get tossed off center by the design of the leaf. I've lifted one and didn't like the heft of it at all. Felt like 50 plus pounds. The original must be at least half the weight of the new one-piece gear. The wing span of the HDS won't like the extra weight either. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Freeeman Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:50 AM Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS model? If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you.having done both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. The new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don't get me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it. Steve From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks! On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry wrote: Carlos, I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins. Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos. Jerry http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:57 PM PST US From: "Joe" Subject: Zenith-List: Oshkosh Are you flying into Oshkosh? EAA Homebuilt Parking is reserving the same parking spaces as we had last year for us, just north of the Homebuilders Headquarters and north of the Cannon Camera viewing stand. Again, we are near the Zenith factory display. Follow the NOTAMS for the signage needed to park your plane. Please print another sign with the word ZENITH on it. The volunteers parking the planes will guide you to the reserved Zenith row. Unfortunately, EAA will not provide a sperate parking spot for Zenigh Homebuilt Camping. But they said if there is enough interest and if there is someone who would get there early enough to get a spot in the back, and if you know how many people would like to camp together, they will make arrangements to accomidate us. It would be interesting to know how many people will be sleeping under their wings with their Zeniths this year! If you plan to, please let me know and we will see if there is enough interest. Don't forget to confirm your banquet spot right away. Seating lis limited and you need to confirm as soon as you can. You can get information at the Zenith display. Jon Croke is donating 3 Zenair Archive CDs ($49 each) for the dinner. These disks have the entire Zenair Newsletter collection in .PDF format for easy searching thru all of the past years of the Newsletter. Thanks Jon! See you in Oshkosh! Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:03 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Another comment about the "old" gear---When I checked out in Ray Huffman's HD, I still had a mental visual picture from a 172, and landed it at 172 height. As a result, I found out that the HD will make carrier landings very nicely. Exiting the airplane we were both about two inches shorter........But the plane wasn't. Paul R ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry McFarland To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 11:38 AM Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Steve, I'd take issue with the claim that the new leaf gear is an improvement. It is for the XL, but I think the strength of the mains on the large center spar wing have a serious advantage for the HDS series. The leaf gear flex tends to give the XL an eccentric wobble. It weighs lots more. The original takes a bit more to install, but the original gear is superior to the leaf even if the leaf looks easier to install. If you're building an HDS, stay with the original design gear. You'll notice the difference when you get in serious crosswind landings and also feel the gear stay aligned when you grease it on with one wheel down in a landing. You stay straight and don't get tossed off center by the design of the leaf. I've lifted one and didn't like the heft of it at all. Felt like 50 plus pounds. The original must be at least half the weight of the new one-piece gear. The wing span of the HDS won't like the extra weight either. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Freeeman Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:50 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS model? If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you.having done both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. The new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don't get me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it. Steve From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:23 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks! On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry > wrote: Carlos, I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins. Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos. Jerry http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:56 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Hi Steve, I only said the XL gear leaf is not a good solution for the HDS because the long spar design takes care of landing loads without adding a second strength component to the belly of the plane. The XL needs the leaf gear because of the shorter spar of course, but the XL has a much longer wing than the 23 foot HDS wing, one reason because the gear is considerably heavier. Real airplane tires are not determined by manufacturer, but qualifying specs. I didn't like the original tires that looked more like something off a wheel barrow either. By the time you've got the center spar made, you find the rationale for the gear is also made. I've changed out my bungees on the mains and found it "fun" as you describe, but that wouldn't be reason enough to corrupt the design of the HDS main gear. It rolls true and on compression, it maintains that alignment. The spread leaf on the XL is different only by its attachment and is no worse than any other aircraft with Cessna type gear. I like the 650 and think it's a great plane. I might have built one if it had been available at the time, but it is a distinctly different aircraft than the HDS. The HD long wing climbs twice as fast as my HDS with the same power and I'd expect the 650 to do that also. The HDS is fast enough, but weight is a serious consideration when loading up that short wing. Respectfully, Larry McFarland From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Freeeman Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:02 PM Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Hi Larry, I would agree with everything you write regarding weight. I can't speak to the cross wind tendencies. With that said having installed both and landed on both I disagree with a couple of your points. I believe ZAC changed the design for a reason. And anyone who has followed my rants knows I do not always agree with ZAC. The wheels supplied with the new gear are better and are real airplane tires. Seeing the quality of your craftsmanship I cannot believe you would disagree with that. The original equipment works fine though. I have only flown left seat in an HDS two times and XL once. All of my other time has been right seat in Don Honabach's 601HDS and a few flights in others. The HDS I built is currently flying in Australia I had to sell it when I hit a financial brick wall in 2003. I am currently about 85% done with fuselage on a 650. I should have clarified my point.but I did say "consider" not that I necessarily recommend. To each his own. I do believe the design is superior in theory. In application it might be who prefers which flavor. As far as the additional weight goes.I have seen guys easily 75 pounds (or more) overweight talk about not using this or that on an airplane because it might weigh a half a pound more or less than another piece of equipment. This conversation always amuses me. Having recently lost 60 pounds (promptly put 30 back on) I can speak to this exercise as well. Sometimes I think the best place any of us can lose weight on our airplanes is by taking it off our own rear ends. I am not suggesting (for even a moment) that applies to anyone on this list.It is simply something I have observed at many airplane functions over the years. I was referring primarily to the install and eventual upkeep. Replacing those bungees will be a bear when the time comes. Steve From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:38 AM Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Steve, I'd take issue with the claim that the new leaf gear is an improvement. It is for the XL, but I think the strength of the mains on the large center spar wing have a serious advantage for the HDS series. The leaf gear flex tends to give the XL an eccentric wobble. It weighs lots more. The original takes a bit more to install, but the original gear is superior to the leaf even if the leaf looks easier to install. If you're building an HDS, stay with the original design gear. You'll notice the difference when you get in serious crosswind landings and also feel the gear stay aligned when you grease it on with one wheel down in a landing. You stay straight and don't get tossed off center by the design of the leaf. I've lifted one and didn't like the heft of it at all. Felt like 50 plus pounds. The original must be at least half the weight of the new one-piece gear. The wing span of the HDS won't like the extra weight either. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Freeeman Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:50 AM Subject: RE: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS model? If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you.having done both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. The new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don't get me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it. Steve From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Zenith-List: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks! On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry wrote: Carlos, I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins. Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos. Jerry http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.