---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/04/13: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:10 PM - Re: a tip (Carlos Sa) 2. 03:27 PM - Re: a tip (Steve Freeman (SDS)) 3. 07:39 PM - Re: a tip () 4. 08:54 PM - KLEMM Fuel Filter Gascolator (George Inman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:37 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: a tip Thanks all for the comments Having been around the Matronics lists for more than a few years, I'm fully aware that I am not building a space shuttle. So much so that I have returned the silica bricks (except a few that I kept to repair the fireplace) and cancelled the solid fuel boosters order. Seriously: what I described is quite simple and does not add to the workload. On the contrary, I strongly believe that it saves time by avoiding glitches and associated head-scratching. I have used this process in the wings and tail feathers (all done) and fuse (past "boat stage"). Happy building Carlos > On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: > >> I have noticed - through other builders comments, but also through my own >> experience - that using clecoes to keep parts together sometimes does not >> quite work. >> The parts do remain attached, not doubt, but they can be slightly shifted >> from the original position when they were drilled. >> >> Here's why, in case you don't know: >> The rivet whole is slightly larger than the rivet, and a cleco, having an >> irregular shape, has plenty of room to move in a rivet hole. >> For instance an A5 Avex rivet has a diameter between 0.140" and 0.155" >> (the rivet has "fins", therefore the diameter varies). >> A solid rivet diameter is 0.155" >> The corresponding drill bit is 0.160". >> A black cleco is 0.149" at its widest point - but it is not round. >> (Note: these are measurements I took from Items I have. You may find >> slightly different measurements.) >> >> In longer parts (more than a foot or two) or assemblies of more than two >> parts, I find that if parts are not perfectly aligned, it's hard to insert >> the rivets. And, worse, parts will be warped or difficult to match as I >> proceed with construction. >> >> So, instead of simply trusting the clecoes, I started adding spent drill >> bits here and there (a solid rivet is better than a cleco, but not as good >> as a spent drill bit). >> >> I eventually started cutting drill bits and grinding one end to make it >> easier to insert them. >> (The grinding process consists of putting the drill bit in a drill or >> drill press and grinding it with a dremel tool.). >> The opposite end is covered with masking tape - see attached photo. >> >> I have a bunch of these, A4 and A5, and use them frequently. >> >> Hopefully this can be useful to someone. >> >> Blue skies >> >> >> >> Carlos >> CH601-HD, plans >> (CH650 firewall and canopy) >> http://www.zenith.aero/profile/CarlosSa >> > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:21 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: a tip From: "Steve Freeman (SDS)" I don't know what you guys are building but I thought mine was a space shuttle! If you look at page 6-MT-1 through 6-MT-12 these are the plans for mounting your plane to a 747 to transport to and from your home airport. Steve Freeman 602-228-3830 From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 3:10 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: a tip Thanks all for the comments Having been around the Matronics lists for more than a few years, I'm fully aware that I am not building a space shuttle. So much so that I have returned the silica bricks (except a few that I kept to repair the fireplace) and cancelled the solid fuel boosters order. Seriously: what I described is quite simple and does not add to the workload. On the contrary, I strongly believe that it saves time by avoiding glitches and associated head-scratching. I have used this process in the wings and tail feathers (all done) and fuse (past "boat stage"). Happy building Carlos On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: I have noticed - through other builders comments, but also through my own experience - that using clecoes to keep parts together sometimes does not quite work. The parts do remain attached, not doubt, but they can be slightly shifted from the original position when they were drilled. Here's why, in case you don't know: The rivet whole is slightly larger than the rivet, and a cleco, having an irregular shape, has plenty of room to move in a rivet hole. For instance an A5 Avex rivet has a diameter between 0.140" and 0.155" (the rivet has "fins", therefore the diameter varies). A solid rivet diameter is 0.155" The corresponding drill bit is 0.160". A black cleco is 0.149" at its widest point - but it is not round. (Note: these are measurements I took from Items I have. You may find slightly different measurements.) In longer parts (more than a foot or two) or assemblies of more than two parts, I find that if parts are not perfectly aligned, it's hard to insert the rivets. And, worse, parts will be warped or difficult to match as I proceed with construction. So, instead of simply trusting the clecoes, I started adding spent drill bits here and there (a solid rivet is better than a cleco, but not as good as a spent drill bit). I eventually started cutting drill bits and grinding one end to make it easier to insert them. (The grinding process consists of putting the drill bit in a drill or drill press and grinding it with a dremel tool.). The opposite end is covered with masking tape - see attached photo. I have a bunch of these, A4 and A5, and use them frequently. Hopefully this can be useful to someone. Blue skies Carlos CH601-HD, plans (CH650 firewall and canopy) http://www.zenith.aero/profile/CarlosSa ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:37 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: a tip Carlos: Don=99t let anyone discourage you from trying to achieve perfection when building anything. When you are finished you don=99t have to explain any misfits, wrinkles or misalignments. Russell Johnson 601-HDS (with misfits, wrinkles & misalignments) From: Carlos Sa Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:09 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: a tip Thanks all for the comments Having been around the Matronics lists for more than a few years, I'm fully aware that I am not building a space shuttle. So much so that I have returned the silica bricks (except a few that I kept to repair the fireplace) and cancelled the solid fuel boosters order. Seriously: what I described is quite simple and does not add to the workload. On the contrary, I strongly believe that it saves time by avoiding glitches and associated head-scratching. I have used this process in the wings and tail feathers (all done) and fuse (past "boat stage"). Happy building Carlos On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: I have noticed - through other builders comments, but also through my own experience - that using clecoes to keep parts together sometimes does not quite work. The parts do remain attached, not doubt, but they can be slightly shifted from the original position when they were drilled. Here's why, in case you don't know: The rivet whole is slightly larger than the rivet, and a cleco, having an irregular shape, has plenty of room to move in a rivet hole. For instance an A5 Avex rivet has a diameter between 0.140" and 0.155" (the rivet has "fins", therefore the diameter varies). A solid rivet diameter is 0.155" The corresponding drill bit is 0.160". A black cleco is 0.149" at its widest point - but it is not round. (Note: these are measurements I took from Items I have. You may find slightly different measurements.) In longer parts (more than a foot or two) or assemblies of more than two parts, I find that if parts are not perfectly aligned, it's hard to insert the rivets. And, worse, parts will be warped or difficult to match as I proceed with construction. So, instead of simply trusting the clecoes, I started adding spent drill bits here and there (a solid rivet is better than a cleco, but not as good as a spent drill bit). I eventually started cutting drill bits and grinding one end to make it easier to insert them. (The grinding process consists of putting the drill bit in a drill or drill press and grinding it with a dremel tool.). The opposite end is covered with masking tape - see attached photo. I have a bunch of these, A4 and A5, and use them frequently. Hopefully this can be useful to someone. Blue skies Carlos CH601-HD, plans (CH650 firewall and canopy) http://www.zenith.aero/profile/CarlosSa ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:11 PM PST US From: George Inman Subject: Zenith-List: KLEMM Fuel Filter Gascolator My plane has a "KLEMM chicago" Fuel Filter / Gascolator I cannot find info for it on Internet. I need to know where to bur a new filter for it. -- George H. Inman ghinman@mts.net 204 287 8334 204 799 7062 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.