---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/12/14: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:01 AM - Re: weird hole (Paul Mulwitz) 2. 06:59 AM - Re: weird hole (FLYaDIVE) 3. 10:40 AM - Re: weird hole (Malcolm Hunt) 4. 10:41 AM - UPDATE : Does Anyone Know What Russell (Lepre') Dupree's Trip is? (Steve Freeman (SDS)) 5. 10:58 AM - Re: weird hole (Steve Freeman (SDS)) 6. 12:44 PM - Re: weird hole (FLYaDIVE) 7. 01:16 PM - Re: weird hole (Steve Freeman (SDS)) 8. 01:28 PM - Re: weird hole (Malcolm Hunt) 9. 01:31 PM - Re: weird hole (Gary Gower) 10. 01:39 PM - Re: weird hole (Malcolm Hunt) 11. 02:44 PM - Re: weird hole (Clive Richards) 12. 04:09 PM - Re: weird hole (Gary Gower) 13. 04:21 PM - Re: weird hole (Paul Mulwitz) 14. 04:52 PM - Fw: weird hole (Carlos Sa) 15. 05:41 PM - Re: Fw: weird hole (Craig Payne) 16. 05:44 PM - Re: weird hole (Ben) 17. 06:07 PM - Re: Fw: weird hole (FLYaDIVE) 18. 06:21 PM - Re: Fw: weird hole (Paul Mulwitz) 19. 06:26 PM - Re: Fw: weird hole (Steve Freeman (SDS)) 20. 11:14 PM - Re: Fw: weird hole (sabrina) 21. 11:48 PM - Re: weird hole (sabrina) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:42 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole Hi Carlos, It seems I am having computer problems of some sort. I sent a message describing how to make any hole you want in sheet aluminum and the computer/net seems to have eaten all the content. I also lost my "Send" file copy. Gremlins! Anyway the short version for any hole: 1. Mark the hole outline with an ultra-fine marker. A pattern can help with this. 2. Drill the center or possibly a couple of corners inside the marked outline. 3. (For bigger holes) Cut close to outline with snips. 4. Finish cutting with a Dremel tool with "Christmas Tree" shaped high speed cutter. Use the point area for fine adjustments and the wider areas for quicker material removal. 5. Use hand file to finish hole - remove sharp edges and prevent loss of blood. Good luck, Paul XL - finished flight test and signed off. On 3/11/2014 4:53 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: > Hello, > > > Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? > > http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf > > Is there a special tool? Just curious... > > Thanks > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > inspection this summer > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole From: FLYaDIVE Carlos: Drill a 12.2 mm hole. Or spend $100 and buy a punch... I would just drill a 12.2 mm hole and be done with it. BUT! If YOU try to drill the hole I'd bet dolars to donuts that it will mess up the panel. SOOooooo, drill a 1/4" hole and then REAM it out to fit. Use a TAPERED REAMER. You will have better control and NO chance of the drill and bit getting away from you. Also, use a vacuum cleaner as you work to pick up the metal chips. Barry On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:53 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: > Hello, > > > Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? > > http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf > > Is there a special tool? Just curious... > > Thanks > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > inspection this summer > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:44 AM PST US From: "Malcolm Hunt" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: weird hole Carlos Can I just add to Paul's excellent advice. As a plans builder you will have a shed load of off-cuts and scrap so you drill three holes. The first is in a piece of scrap and will be probably rubbish; the second will also be in a piece of scrap and will be pretty good; the third will be on your aircraft and be like the dogs dangly bits - perfect. My two pennies worth but best of luck Malcolm Hunt CH601XL plans builder in England From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: 11 March 2014 23:54 Subject: Zenith-List: weird hole Hello, Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf Is there a special tool? Just curious... Thanks Carlos CH601-HD, plans inspection this summer __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9530 (20140311) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:13 AM PST US Subject: UPDATE : Zenith-List: Does Anyone Know What Russell (Lepre') Dupree's Trip is? 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I just spent a week in Birmingham and London. Great cities. Steve Freeman 602-228-3830 From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Hunt Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 10:40 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: weird hole Carlos Can I just add to Paul's excellent advice. As a plans builder you will have a shed load of off-cuts and scrap so you drill three holes. The first is in a piece of scrap and will be probably rubbish; the second will also be in a piece of scrap and will be pretty good; the third will be on your aircraft and be like the dogs dangly bits - perfect. My two pennies worth but best of luck Malcolm Hunt CH601XL plans builder in England From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: 11 March 2014 23:54 Subject: Zenith-List: weird hole Hello, Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf Is there a special tool? Just curious... Thanks Carlos CH601-HD, plans inspection this summer http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9530 (20140311) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole From: FLYaDIVE You guys are joking! Right? You are going to spend over an hour making a hole! One stinking HOLE! And who knows the quality of the workmanship in making that hole. The better the workmanship the more time is going to be spent. I like dogs and I like cats and there are many ways to skin a cat but to be bull dog stubborn on a simple hole you got to be kidding. BUY a DIFFERENT switch. But, wait, if there are more than one hole, is there enough holes to justify buying a punch? Barry On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Malcolm Hunt < malcolmhunt@mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote: > Carlos > > > Can I just add to Paul's excellent advice. As a plans builder you will > have a shed load of off-cuts and scrap so you drill three holes. > > > The first is in a piece of scrap and will be probably rubbish; the second > will also be in a piece of scrap and will be pretty good; the third will > be on your aircraft and be like the dogs dangly bits - perfect. > > > My two pennies worth but best of luck > > > Malcolm Hunt > > CH601XL plans builder in England > > > *From:* owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Carlos Sa > *Sent:* 11 March 2014 23:54 > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Zenith-List: weird hole > > > Hello, > > Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? > > http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf > > Is there a special tool? Just curious... > > Thanks > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > > inspection this summer > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 9530 (20140311) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:19 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: weird hole From: "Steve Freeman (SDS)" HI Barry, I can only speak for myself but 1. You are going to spend over an hour making a hole! a. It is a pride of workmanship issue and since it is on the panel it is one of the most visible locations on the whole project. It is hard to hide a goof up here. (as I well know) 2. Is there enough holes to justify buying a punch a. I am personally sick to death of buying single use tools. I have several. If we were all closer together it would be so nice to have a "shared tool" resource. The caveat here is...the right tool can often save hours of time over trying to Rube Goldburg a solution. For instance, the "Nutplate Jig" from Brown Aviation, part number BAT3518. This $30 tool saved me hours and hours of time as well as preventing certain goof ups. Worth every penny. If you are early in project build...buy one, you won't regret it. Also, get a threaded bit, air driven, right angle drill. This tool is worth its weight in gold. Buy used if you can. New price is ~$375. Even at full retail this tool is invaluable in a project. I can't imagine building this plane without it. Can you...yes...of course. But this will make some tasks a hundred (no, a thousand) times easier and will reduce drilling errors and oval holes. See SIOUX 90 Degree Threaded Drill motor. Brown Aviation Tools, 1AM1551. You won't be sorry. 3. BUY a DIFFERENT switch. a. Once I found what I "liked" I did not want to change. Steve Freeman 602-228-3830 From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole You guys are joking! Right? You are going to spend over an hour making a hole! One stinking HOLE! And who knows the quality of the workmanship in making that hole. The better the workmanship the more time is going to be spent. I like dogs and I like cats and there are many ways to skin a cat but to be bull dog stubborn on a simple hole you got to be kidding. BUY a DIFFERENT switch. But, wait, if there are more than one hole, is there enough holes to justify buying a punch? Barry On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Malcolm Hunt < malcolmhunt@mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote: Carlos Can I just add to Paul's excellent advice. As a plans builder you will have a shed load of off-cuts and scrap so you drill three holes. The first is in a piece of scrap and will be probably rubbish; the second will also be in a piece of scrap and will be pretty good; the third will be on your aircraft and be like the dogs dangly bits - perfect. My two pennies worth but best of luck Malcolm Hunt CH601XL plans builder in England From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: 11 March 2014 23:54 Subject: Zenith-List: weird hole Hello, Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf Is there a special tool? Just curious... Thanks Carlos CH601-HD, plans inspection this summer http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9530 (20140311) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:19 PM PST US From: "Malcolm Hunt" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: weird hole Thanks Barry but as a plans builder I learned early on that every single hole has to be treated with respect as it is too easy to drill it in the wrong place or end up forming an aperture which is un-usable. More scrap!!! I think one of the benefits of the list is the breadth of opinion which has helped me enormously over the past few years. Kind regards Malcolm Hunt From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE Sent: 12 March 2014 19:44 Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole You guys are joking! Right? You are going to spend over an hour making a hole! One stinking HOLE! And who knows the quality of the workmanship in making that hole. The better the workmanship the more time is going to be spent. I like dogs and I like cats and there are many ways to skin a cat but to be bull dog stubborn on a simple hole you got to be kidding. BUY a DIFFERENT switch. But, wait, if there are more than one hole, is there enough holes to justify buying a punch? Barry On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Malcolm Hunt wrote: Carlos Can I just add to Paul's excellent advice. As a plans builder you will have a shed load of off-cuts and scrap so you drill three holes. The first is in a piece of scrap and will be probably rubbish; the second will also be in a piece of scrap and will be pretty good; the third will be on your aircraft and be like the dogs dangly bits - perfect. My two pennies worth but best of luck Malcolm Hunt CH601XL plans builder in England From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: 11 March 2014 23:54 Subject: Zenith-List: weird hole Hello, Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf Is there a special tool? Just curious... Thanks Carlos CH601-HD, plans inspection this summer http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9530 (20140311) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9533 (20140312) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:52 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole Looking closely to the pdf page...=C2- =0AI think that the hole to instal l the switch is a normal round hole, like any other switch with a nut...=C2 - =0ALooks that the plastic parts of the switch are the ones that have th at=C2- rectangular form... =0A=0AGary.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wednesda y, March 12, 2014 1:58 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:=0A =0AYou g uys are joking! =C2-Right?=0A=0AYou are going to spend over an hour makin g a hole! =C2-One stinking HOLE!=0A=0AAnd who knows the quality of the wo rkmanship in making that hole. =C2-The better the workmanship the more ti me is going to be spent.=0A=0AI like dogs and I like cats and there are man y ways to skin a cat but to be bull dog stubborn on a simple hole you got t o be kidding.=0A=0ABUY a DIFFERENT switch.=0A=0ABut, wait, if there are mor e than one hole, is there enough holes to justify buying a punch?=0A=0ABarr y=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Malcolm Hunt wrote:=0A=0ACarlos=0A>=C2-=0A>Can I just add to Paul=99s excellent advice.=C2- As a plans builder you will have a shed load of off-cuts and scrap so you drill three holes.=0A>=C2-=0A>T he first is in a piece of scrap and will be probably rubbish;=C2- the sec ond will also be in a piece of scrap and will be pretty good;=C2- the thi rd will be on your aircraft and be like the dogs dangly bits =93 perf ect.=0A>=C2-=0A>My two pennies worth but best of luck=0A>=C2-=0A>Malcol m Hunt=0A>CH601XL plans builder in England=0A>=C2-=0A>From:owner-zenith-l ist-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa=0A>Sent: 11 March 2014 23:54=0A>To: zenith-list@matron ics.com=0A>Subject: Zenith-List: weird hole=0A>=C2-=0A>Hello,=0A>=0A>=0A> Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf?=0A>=0A>http: //switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf=0A>Is there a special tool? Just curious...=0A>Thanks=0A>Carlos=0A>CH601-HD, plans=0A>ins pection this summer=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigat or?Zenith-List=0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution=0A>=C2-=0A>=0A>=0A>__________ Information from ESET Smart Sec urity, version of virus signature database 9530 (20140311) __________=0A> =0A>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.=0A>=0A>=0A>="http://w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List" target="_blank">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listtp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">http://www =========================0A ======================= ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:13 PM PST US From: "Malcolm Hunt" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: weird hole Hi Steve They are between his rear legs but I understand close inspection is inadvisable!!! Glad you liked two of our cities. I live between the cathedral cities of Winchester and Chichester and keep a Piper Warrior at Goodwood which is Chichester's aerodrome. It was the Battle of Britain fighter station of RAF Westhampnett and Douglas Bader flew from there on occasions. The perimeter track was used after WW2 for motor racing and is still in use today. We have a company on the field that operates a two seat Spitfire along with Tiger Moths and Harvards (Texans) so a lot going on. Kind regards Malcolm From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Freeman (SDS) Sent: 12 March 2014 17:58 Subject: RE: Zenith-List: weird hole What are "dog's dangly bits?" I just spent a week in Birmingham and London. Great cities. Steve Freeman 602-228-3830 From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Hunt Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 10:40 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: weird hole Carlos Can I just add to Paul's excellent advice. As a plans builder you will have a shed load of off-cuts and scrap so you drill three holes. The first is in a piece of scrap and will be probably rubbish; the second will also be in a piece of scrap and will be pretty good; the third will be on your aircraft and be like the dogs dangly bits - perfect. My two pennies worth but best of luck Malcolm Hunt CH601XL plans builder in England From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: 11 March 2014 23:54 Subject: Zenith-List: weird hole Hello, Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf Is there a special tool? Just curious... Thanks Carlos CH601-HD, plans inspection this summer http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9530 (20140311) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9533 (20140312) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:45 PM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole Gary If you look at your PDF top RHS you will see it is not a round hole as there are flats to stop switch rotating in panel If it is a one off drill 11 mm hole and file top & bottom of hole out to 12.2 mm with a small half round file to fit switch. Clive ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Gower To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:31 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole Looking closely to the pdf page... I think that the hole to install the switch is a normal round hole, like any other switch with a nut... Looks that the plastic parts of the switch are the ones that have that rectangular form... Gary. On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 1:58 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: You guys are joking! Right? You are going to spend over an hour making a hole! One stinking HOLE! And who knows the quality of the workmanship in making that hole. The better the workmanship the more time is going to be spent. I like dogs and I like cats and there are many ways to skin a cat but to be bull dog stubborn on a simple hole you got to be kidding. BUY a DIFFERENT switch. But, wait, if there are more than one hole, is there enough holes to justify buying a punch? Barry On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Malcolm Hunt wrote: Carlos Can I just add to Paul=99s excellent advice. As a plans builder you will have a shed load of off-cuts and scrap so you drill three holes. The first is in a piece of scrap and will be probably rubbish; the second will also be in a piece of scrap and will be pretty good; the third will be on your aircraft and be like the dogs dangly bits =93 perfect. My two pennies worth but best of luck Malcolm Hunt CH601XL plans builder in England From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: 11 March 2014 23:54 To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: weird hole Hello, Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf Is there a special tool? Just curious... Thanks Carlos CH601-HD, plans inspection this summer http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9530 (20140311) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/con=============== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:14 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole Yes, I have installed lots of this type of switches...=C2- Make it round. =0A=0AJust apply a tiny drop of paint (the red nail paint you use in the bo lts and nuts will work) betwen the switch and the instrument panel (or a dr op of contact cement, if you have one opened and not dried), before tighten ing the nut and the switch will not move...=C2- I am shure you will never try to twist the switch to turn it on...=C2-=C2- =0A=0ASame happens wi th the ones that have a "tonge" in the professionaly made hole=C2- and th e switch has a groove...=C2- =0AThis is designed to resist abuse from som e Fred Flitstone type of users... :-)=C2- =0A=0AWe pilots are lot more ca refull when switching in our pride and joy... =0A=0AGary=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AO n Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:00 PM, Clive Richards wrote:=0A =0A =0AGary=C2- If you look at your PDF top RHS you will =0Asee it is not a round hole as there are flats to stop switch rotati ng in panel =0AIf it is a one off drill 11 mm hole and file top & bottom of hole out to =0A12.2 mm=C2-with a small half round file to fit switch.=0A Clive=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Gary Gower =0A>To: zenith-li st@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:31 PM=0A>Subject: R e: Zenith-List: weird =0Ahole=0A>=0A>=0A>Looking closely to the pdf page.. .=C2- =0A>I think that the hole to install the =0A switch is a normal ro und hole, like any other switch with a nut...=C2- =0A>Looks that the plas tic parts of the switch are the ones that have =0A that=C2- rectangular form... =0A>=0A>Gary.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Wednesday, Marc h 12, 2014 1:58 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:=0A>=0A>You guys are joking! =C2-Right?=0A>=0A>=0A>You are going to spend over an hour mak ing a hole! =C2-One stinking HOLE!=0A>=0A>=0A>And who knows the quality of the workmanship in making that hole. =C2-The better the workmanship t he more time is going to be spent.=0A>=0A>=0A>I like dogs and I like cats and there are many ways to skin a cat but to be bull dog stubborn on a sim ple hole you got to be kidding.=0A>=0A>=0A>BUY a DIFFERENT switch.=0A>=0A> =0A>But, wait, if there are more than one hole, is there enough holes to j ustify buying a punch?=0A>=0A>=0A>Barry=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Malcolm Hunt wrote:=0A>=0A>Carlos=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Can I just add to Paul =99s excellent advice.=C2- As a plans builder you will have a shed lo ad of off-cuts and scrap so you drill three holes.=0A>>=C2-=0A>>The firs t is in a piece of scrap and will be probably rubbish;=C2- the second wi ll also be in a piece of scrap and will be pretty good;=C2- the third wi ll be on your aircraft and be like the dogs dangly bits =93 perfect. =0A>>=C2-=0A>>My two pennies worth but best of luck=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Malco lm Hunt=0A>>CH601XL plans builder in England=0A>>=C2-=0A>>From:owner-ze nith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.c om] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa=0A>>Sent: 11 March 2014 23:54=0A>>To: zenith-li st@matronics.com=0A>>Subject: Zenith-List: weird hole=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Hello, =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this p df?=0A>>=0A>>http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB. pdf=0A>>Is there a special tool? Just curious...=0A>>Thanks=0A>>Carlos=0A> >CH601-HD, =0A plans=0A>>inspection this summer=0A>>=C2-=0A>>=C2- =0A>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List=0A>>http://forums.matro nics.com=0A>>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>=C2-=0A>>=0A>>=0A> >__________ Information from ESET =0A Smart Security, version of virus s ignature database 9530 (20140311) =0A __________=0A>>=0A>>The message wa s checked by ESET Smart Security.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>="http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Zenith-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?Zenith-Listtp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/ contribution =0A>=0A>http://www.matronics.com/con======== ======== =0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">htt p://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">h =========================0A ======================= ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:30 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole Gary, First, I think your estimate of an hour to make this hole properly is off by about 55 minutes. Once you get the process down this simple little hole with the flats might take as much as 5 minutes. Second, If you are not willing to take a few minutes to do this little job right they perhaps you would be better advised to buy a spam can than to build your own plane. Paul Camas, WA On 3/12/2014 4:07 PM, Gary Gower wrote: > Yes, I have installed lots of this type of switches... Make it round. > > Just apply a tiny drop of paint (the red nail paint you use in the > bolts and nuts will work) betwen the switch and the instrument panel > (or a drop of contact cement, if you have one opened and not dried), > before tightening the nut and the switch will not move... I am shure > you will never try to twist the switch to turn it on... > > Same happens with the ones that have a "tonge" in the professionaly > made hole and the switch has a groove... > This is designed to resist abuse from some Fred Flitstone type of > users... :-) > > We pilots are lot more carefull when switching in our pride and joy... > > Gary > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:18 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: Fwd: weird hole Hello, Interesting and "colourful" opinions. My question was motivated by the fact that switches with this characteristic are pretty frequent (mouser, digikey, jameco, etc.). Obviously I thought of drilling a small hole and enlarging it to fit the required dimensions, as suggested. At this point of my project, I have learnt to make holes of any size, any shape. And a few of them even end up the size and shape as I wanted! It's true that making these holes would be a bit of a pain, but not as much as the holes I made for the Hartwell latches on my wing lockers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evD30x62UwU So, in case I find the switch I want, this will not stop me. Someone suggested a toggle switch. Thanks, but I think they can hurt in case of an accident (probably the reason why cars don't have toggle switches on the panel since what, the fifties?). I found that Carling makes some nice ones (Aveo sells them with custom design), but I think they are too big - the hole is close to 2' tall. Folks, thanks for the comments. Now back to building (or flying). Cheers Carlos CH601-HD, CH650 canopy, maybe a Corvair engine? Dynon D180? Choosing is half the fun! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Carlos Sa Subject: weird hole Hello, Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf Is there a special tool? Just curious... Thanks Carlos CH601-HD, plans inspection this summer ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:54 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fwd: weird hole I suggested a standard toggle switch. If I impact my panel getting poked by a toggle will be the least of my worries ;-) A few things I don't like about some of the newer, prettier switches: 1. I find them to be more fragile that the classic toggles 2. They are manufacturer-specific. If you break one in 10 years (see item 1) you may have a hard time finding a replacement. 3. Depending on what the switch operates I like the fact that a standard toggle has a more positive action. And if it is really important I can put a guard on it. And if it is really really important I can put a spring-loaded cover over it. 4. standard toggles are available with many different switching circuits: single/double poll, single/double throw, center off, momentary or not. -- Craig On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 4:51 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: > Hello, > > > Interesting and "colourful" opinions. > > My question was motivated by the fact that switches with this > characteristic are pretty frequent (mouser, digikey, jameco, etc.). > Obviously I thought of drilling a small hole and enlarging it to fit the > required dimensions, as suggested. At this point of my project, I have > learnt to make holes of any size, any shape. And a few of them even end up > the size and shape as I wanted! > > It's true that making these holes would be a bit of a pain, but not as > much as the holes I made for the Hartwell latches on my wing lockers. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evD30x62UwU > > So, in case I find the switch I want, this will not stop me. > > Someone suggested a toggle switch. > Thanks, but I think they can hurt in case of an accident (probably the > reason why cars don't have toggle switches on the panel since what, the > fifties?). > > I found that Carling makes some nice ones (Aveo sells them with custom > design), but I think they are too big - the hole is close to 2' tall. > > Folks, thanks for the comments. Now back to building (or flying). > > Cheers > > > Carlos > CH601-HD, CH650 canopy, maybe a Corvair engine? > Dynon D180? Choosing is half the fun! > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Carlos Sa > Date: 11 March 2014 19:53 > Subject: weird hole > To: "zenith-list@matronics.com" > > > Hello, > > > Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? > > http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf > > Is there a special tool? Just curious... > > Thanks > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > inspection this summer > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:49 PM PST US From: "Ben" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole I udes the same switches in my 801... I could net get the light portion of the switch to work without blowing fuses.. They do work great as swit ched only though.You can see them in my video at about the 21 minute mar k... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCNnEgRkdXc&context=C3e091d3ADOE gsToPDskKmHo69I6bUDuoBHd5YSUfu Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole Yes, I have installed lots of this type of switches... Make it round. Just apply a tiny drop of paint (the red nail paint you use in the bolts and nuts will work) betwen the switch and the instrument panel (or a dr op of contact cement, if you have one opened and not dried), before tigh tening the nut and the switch will not move... I am shure you will neve r try to twist the switch to turn it on... Same happens with the ones that have a "tonge" in the professionaly made hole and the switch has a groove... This is designed to resist abuse from some Fred Flitstone type of users. .. :-) We pilots are lot more carefull when switching in our pride and joy... Gary On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:00 PM, Clive Richards wrote: Gary If you look at your PDF top RHS you will see it is not a round hol e as there are flats to stop switch rotating in panel If it is a one off drill 11 mm hole and file top & bottom of hole out to 12.2 mm with a sm all half round file to fit switch.Clive----- Original Message -----From: Gary GowerTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:31 PMSubject: Re: Zenith-List: weird hole Looking closely to the pdf p age... I think that the hole to install the switch is a normal round hole, like any other switch with a nut... Looks that the plastic parts of the switch are the ones that have that rectangular form... Gary. On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 1:58 PM, FLYaDIVE wrot e: You guys are joking! Right? You are going to spend over an hour making a hole! One stinking HOLE! And who knows the quality of the workmanship in making that hole. The better the workmanship the more time is going to be spent. I like dogs and I like cats and there are many ways to ski n a cat but to be bull dog stubborn on a simple hole you got to be kiddi ng. BUY a DIFFERENT switch. But, wait, if there are more than one hole, is there enough holes to justify buying a punch? Barry On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Malcolm Hunt wrote: Carlos Can I just add to Paul€™s excellent advice. As a p lans builder you will have a shed load of off-cuts and scrap so you dril l three holes. The first is in a piece of scrap and will be probably rub bish; the second will also be in a piece of scrap and will be pretty go od; the third will be on your aircraft and be like the dogs dangly bits €“ perfect. My two pennies worth but best of luck Malcolm HuntCH601XL plans builder in England From: owner-zenith-list-server@mat ronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: 11 March 2014 23:54 Subject: Zenith-List: weird hole Hello, Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdfIs ther e a special tool? Just curious...ThanksCarlos CH601-HD, plansinspection this summer http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics. com/contribution __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signat ure database 9530 (20140311) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List" target="_blank">ht tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List tp://forums.matronics.com _ blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/co n=============== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matro nhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref= "http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chttp:/ /www="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com/ ">http:/www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contrib ution=========== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ========= ____________________________________________________________ Fast-Growing Industry A New Player In The Booming Bottled Water Market. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/5320ff51ce4ff7f513d55st04duc ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fwd: weird hole From: FLYaDIVE GOOD POINT Craig! Better than GOOD... EXCELLENT! Carlos's logic on this point just does not make sense. He better do away with the STICK or the YOKE. After all they are sitting there right in front of your chest! Mater of fact all planes with toggle switches should be grounded. And you wonder why the government wants to take away our GA privileges. Barry On Wednesday, March 12, 2014, Craig Payne wrote: > I suggested a standard toggle switch. If I impact my panel getting poked > by a toggle will be the least of my worries ;-) > > A few things I don't like about some of the newer, prettier switches: > > 1. I find them to be more fragile that the classic toggles > 2. They are manufacturer-specific. If you break one in 10 years (see item > 1) you may have a hard time finding a replacement. > 3. Depending on what the switch operates I like the fact that a standard > toggle has a more positive action. And if it is really important I can put > a guard on it. And if it is really really important I can put a > spring-loaded cover over it. > 4. standard toggles are available with many different switching circuits: > single/double poll, single/double throw, center off, momentary or not. > > -- Craig > > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 4:51 PM, Carlos Sa > > wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> >> Interesting and "colourful" opinions. >> >> My question was motivated by the fact that switches with this >> characteristic are pretty frequent (mouser, digikey, jameco, etc.). >> Obviously I thought of drilling a small hole and enlarging it to fit >> the required dimensions, as suggested. At this point of my project, I have >> learnt to make holes of any size, any shape. And a few of them even end up >> the size and shape as I wanted! >> >> It's true that making these holes would be a bit of a pain, but not as >> much as the holes I made for the Hartwell latches on my wing lockers. >> hartwell latch operation >> >> So, in case I find the switch I want, this will not stop me. >> >> Someone suggested a toggle switch. >> Thanks, but I think they can hurt in case of an accident (probably the >> reason why cars don't have toggle switches on the panel since what, the >> fifties?). >> >> I found that Carling makes some nice ones (Aveo sells them with custom >> design), but I think they are too big - the hole is close to 2' tall. >> >> Folks, thanks for the comments. Now back to building (or flying). >> >> Cheers >> >> >> Carlos >> CH601-HD, CH650 canopy, maybe a Corvair engine? >> Dynon D180? Choosing is half the fun! >> >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Carlos Sa >> > >> Date: 11 March 2014 19:53 >> Subject: weird hole >> To: "zenith-list@matronics.com" >> >> > >> >> >> Hello, >> >> >> Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? >> >> http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf >> >> Is there a special tool? Just curious... >> >> Thanks >> >> Carlos >> CH601-HD, plans >> inspection this summer >> >> * >> >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:19 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fwd: weird hole Hi Carlos, Many years ago I had the opportunity to sit in a real Mig 21. The panels of switches and the few instruments were very crude but functional. There were lots of those bat handled toggle switches. My plane has a few of those too. Paul. On 3/12/2014 4:51 PM, Carlos Sa wrote: > nteresting and "colourful" opinions. > > My question was motivated by the fact that switches with this > characteristic are pretty frequent (mouser, digikey, jameco, etc.). > Obviously I thought of drilling a small hole and enlarging it to fit > the required dimensions, as suggested. At this point of my project, I > have learnt to make holes of any size, any shape. And a few of them > even end up the size and shape as I wanted! > > It's true that making these holes would be a bit of a pain, but not as > much as the holes I made for the Hartwell latches on my wing lockers. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evD30x62UwU > > So, in case I find the switch I want, this will not stop me. > > Someone suggested a toggle switch. > Thanks, but I think they can hurt in case of an accident (probably the > reason why cars don't have toggle switches on the panel since what, > the fifties?). > > I found that Carling makes some nice ones (Aveo sells them with custom > design), but I think they are too big - the hole is close to 2' tall. > > Folks, thanks for the comments. Now back to building (or flying). > > Cheers ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:34 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fwd: weird hole From: "Steve Freeman (SDS)" I don't want to be the list police... But personal attacks are really not needed on this list. << Carlos's logic on this point just does not make sense... And you wonder why the government wants to take away our GA privileges.>> This is totally uncalled for. It never ceases to amaze which topics garner the most responses. Steve Freeman From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:07 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fwd: weird hole GOOD POINT Craig! Better than GOOD... EXCELLENT! Carlos's logic on this point just does not make sense. He better do away with the STICK or the YOKE. After all they are sitting there right in front of your chest! Mater of fact all planes with toggle switches should be grounded. And you wonder why the government wants to take away our GA privileges. Barry On Wednesday, March 12, 2014, Craig Payne wrote: I suggested a standard toggle switch. If I impact my panel getting poked by a toggle will be the least of my worries ;-) A few things I don't like about some of the newer, prettier switches: 1. I find them to be more fragile that the classic toggles 2. They are manufacturer-specific. If you break one in 10 years (see item 1) you may have a hard time finding a replacement. 3. Depending on what the switch operates I like the fact that a standard toggle has a more positive action. And if it is really important I can put a guard on it. And if it is really really important I can put a spring-loaded cover over it. 4. standard toggles are available with many different switching circuits: single/double poll, single/double throw, center off, momentary or not. -- Craig On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 4:51 PM, Carlos Sa > wrote: Hello, Interesting and "colourful" opinions. My question was motivated by the fact that switches with this characteristic are pretty frequent (mouser, digikey, jameco, etc.). Obviously I thought of drilling a small hole and enlarging it to fit the required dimensions, as suggested. At this point of my project, I have learnt to make holes of any size, any shape. And a few of them even end up the size and shape as I wanted! It's true that making these holes would be a bit of a pain, but not as much as the holes I made for the Hartwell latches on my wing lockers. hartwell latch operation So, in case I find the switch I want, this will not stop me. Someone suggested a toggle switch. Thanks, but I think they can hurt in case of an accident (probably the reason why cars don't have toggle switches on the panel since what, the fifties?). I found that Carling makes some nice ones (Aveo sells them with custom design), but I think they are too big - the hole is close to 2' tall. Folks, thanks for the comments. Now back to building (or flying). Cheers Carlos CH601-HD, CH650 canopy, maybe a Corvair engine? Dynon D180? Choosing is half the fun! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Carlos Sa > Subject: weird hole " > Hello, Does anyone know how to drill a hole as indicated in this pdf? http://switches-connectors-custom.cwind.com/Asset/GRB213B03BB.pdf Is there a special tool? Just curious... Thanks Carlos CH601-HD, plans inspection this summer arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fwd: weird hole From: "sabrina" The list I remember so well is back... Hey guys! Sabrina (21 round hole toggle switches.) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420257#420257 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/21_184.jpg ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:09 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: weird hole From: "sabrina" One problem is that DC is harder to switch than AC. Your switch is AC rated. I know you are worried about hitting your head on a toggle switch, but I would be more concerned about an AC-only rated switch causing a problem in flight that could be much worse than that... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420258#420258 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dc_rated_880.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ac_rated_105.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.