---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/13/08: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:44 AM - Re: Re: Trim tab play (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 2. 01:48 AM - Re: Re: Trim tab play (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 3. 04:29 AM - Re: Trim tab play (ashontz) 4. 04:30 AM - Re: Trim tab play (ashontz) 5. 04:37 AM - Re: Trim tab play (ashontz) 6. 05:21 AM - Re: Engine mount bolts (P.H. Raker) 7. 05:37 AM - Re: Zenith-List: Re: Engine mount bolts (Juan Vega) 8. 07:00 AM - Re: Trim tab play (Gig Giacona) 9. 07:10 AM - Re: Trim tab play (ashontz) 10. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Trim tab play (Jay Maynard) 11. 07:34 AM - Re: Trim tab play (ashontz) 12. 08:02 AM - Re: Trim tab play (moorecomp) 13. 09:17 AM - Re: Trim tab play (Gig Giacona) 14. 10:34 AM - xl wing(s) questions (Lee Steensland) 15. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Trim tab play (Terry Phillips) 16. 11:38 AM - Aileron Balance Video (moorecomp) 17. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Trim tab play (Gary Gower) 18. 01:09 PM - Re: xl wing(s) questions (Jaybannist@cs.com) 19. 01:54 PM - Re: Trim tab play (Gig Giacona) 20. 06:23 PM - Re: xl wing(s) questions (Ron Lendon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:54 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play Scott It might be your front gear that is too stiff. The first plane I built had the same problem and some adjustments and a lot of LPS took care of it. Jeff **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:32 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play Andy I have a spare set of hinge less ailerons I would let go for 25.00 each. They were bought with my first kit and I switched to hinge less. They are primed and ready to mount. Jeff **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play From: "ashontz" Yeah, I'm just being lazy. :) Maybe I'll remake them. It actually didn't take all that long. cookwithgas wrote: > Andy: > > The hinge is the .016" skin on the aileron, correct. I would just re-make the ailerons. You are a pro at building parts now anyway right? > > Scott. -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182880#182880 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play From: "ashontz" Hhhmmm, let me think about it. Are they primed on the outside? I was hoping to do a polish job on my plane. $50 total is a pretty good deal. I could spend that much on materials alone. [quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]Andy I have a spare set of hinge less ailerons I would let go for 25.00 each. They were bought with my first kit and I switched to hinge less. They are primed and ready to mount. Jeff Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001). > [b] -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182881#182881 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play From: "ashontz" Is anyone using a Cessna style spring loaded front wheel steering instead of a hard mount on the wheel? I kind of figured that's the way I'd like to go when the time comes. [quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]Scott It might be your front gear that is too stiff. The first plane I built had the same problem and some adjustments and a lot of LPS took care of it. Jeff Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001). > [b] -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182883#182883 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:32 AM PST US From: "P.H. Raker" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Engine mount bolts "Ianrat" wrote: > > Just about to fit the engine mount to the fire wall. What > type of bolts are being used (AN or Grade 8 ). > And are they using Castle nuts or Nylon lock nuts. Hello, Ianrat, and other listers, I must agree in part with what Mac already wrote you. Use the AN bolts. Grade 8 are slightly stronger/harder, but are also a bit more brittle. You don't want brittle on something that's potentially so safety critical as engine mounts. I must disagree with something else Mac wrote. Castle nuts are good. Self locking nuts are not necessarily bad. Nylock type nuts SHOULD NOT BE USED on an engine mount. Here's the reasoning: Under normal operating conditions, some engines don't produce sufficient heat to present a problem. However, forward of the firewall is the most likely place on an aircraft to have a fire. If you ever have an in-flight fire (God forbid), you don't want your engine to fall off the plane because you used Nylock nuts on the mounts and the nylon melted. If you choose to use self-locking nuts on your engine mounts, please USE ALL-METAL ones. Assuming that heat isn't an issue under normal operating conditions, Nylock nuts are great in almost all other applications. Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed (using all-metal self-locking nuts on my engine mounts) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:28 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith601-List: Engine mount bolts do not use Nylock, it will melt. never use Nylock in the engine compartment. use either castle nuts, or steel Lock nuts. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: "P.H. Raker" >Sent: May 13, 2008 8:20 AM >To: Zenith601-List@matronics.com, Zenith-List >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith601-List: Engine mount bolts > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" > > > "Ianrat" wrote: >> >> Just about to fit the engine mount to the fire wall. What >> type of bolts are being used (AN or Grade 8 ). >> And are they using Castle nuts or Nylon lock nuts. > >Hello, Ianrat, and other listers, > I must agree in part with what Mac already wrote you. Use the AN >bolts. Grade 8 are slightly stronger/harder, but are also a bit more >brittle. You don't want brittle on something that's potentially so >safety critical as engine mounts. > I must disagree with something else Mac wrote. Castle nuts are >good. Self locking nuts are not necessarily bad. Nylock type nuts >SHOULD NOT BE USED on an engine mount. Here's the reasoning: Under >normal operating conditions, some engines don't produce sufficient heat >to present a problem. However, forward of the firewall is the most >likely place on an aircraft to have a fire. If you ever have an >in-flight fire (God forbid), you don't want your engine to fall off the >plane because you used Nylock nuts on the mounts and the nylon melted. >If you choose to use self-locking nuts on your engine mounts, please >USE ALL-METAL ones. > Assuming that heat isn't an issue under normal operating >conditions, Nylock nuts are great in almost all other applications. > >Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed > (using all-metal self-locking nuts on my engine mounts) > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play From: "Gig Giacona" Good God Why? do not archive. ashontz wrote: > Is anyone using a Cessna style spring loaded front wheel steering instead of a hard mount on the wheel? I kind of figured that's the way I'd like to go when the time comes. > > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182909#182909 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play From: "ashontz" What's wrong with it? Gig Giacona wrote: > Good God Why? > > do not archive. > > > > ashontz wrote: > > Is anyone using a Cessna style spring loaded front wheel steering instead of a hard mount on the wheel? I kind of figured that's the way I'd like to go when the time comes. > > > > > -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182914#182914 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:19 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 07:10:46AM -0700, ashontz wrote: (re Cessna-style spring rudder pedals-nosewheel connection) > What's wrong with it? Ask, rather, what's the benefit? It's not going to keep you from cocking the nosewheel in the wind, after all. It just seems to me like added complexity for no benefit, something to always be avoided in aircraft. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!) Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play From: "ashontz" I think the benefit may be easier use of the rudder pedals on the ground. The wheel is coaxed to turn but won't turn fully til it starts to roll forward, but it still allows full travel of the rudder pedals til the wheel catches up. jmaynard wrote: > On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 07:10:46AM -0700, ashontz wrote: > (re Cessna-style spring rudder pedals-nosewheel connection) > > > What's wrong with it? > > > > > > Ask, rather, what's the benefit? It's not going to keep you from cocking the > nosewheel in the wind, after all. It just seems to me like added complexity > for no benefit, something to always be avoided in aircraft. > -- > Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com > http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net > http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!) > Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390 -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182924#182924 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:09 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play From: "moorecomp" Andy, Check out how Larry Martin put spring loaded nosewheel steering on his 701. Larry is a master tinkerer. http://www.skyhawg.com/petals.html (yes, pedals is mispelled) Best regards, Craig Moore A&P Mancelona, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182929#182929 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play From: "Gig Giacona" Three reason, complexity, complexity and complexity. Did I mention complexity? I don't have my engine on the mount yet but I do have a big piece of concrete that is there to counter balance somewhat but it is not stretching the bungee at all. I can with some force move the gear stop to stop sitting in the hanger. I have not put any lube on it at all. I just can't see changing the design for what is really just a transient issue that will work itself out as the system wears in a little. You are also planing to put a Corvair engine in as I am and the Corvair is on the up end of the weight scale for the 601. You don't need any extra weight out there in front. [quote="ashontz"]What's wrong with it? [quote="Gig Giacona"]Good God Why? do not archive. ashontz wrote: > Is anyone using a Cessna style spring loaded front wheel steering instead of a hard mount on the wheel? I kind of figured that's the way I'd like to go when the time comes. > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182942#182942 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:04 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: xl wing(s) questions From: "Lee Steensland" Folken, I have been reviewing the drawings and the websites of everyone that I can find that have come before me, and I feel I'm missing something. Looking at drawing 6-w-00 it gives the basic layout of the ribs for the right wing. >From what I can tell, not all the nose ribs are the same. The third nose rib appears to have the flanges point the opposite of the rest. It also looks like from 6-w-6 that the lightening hole flanges on rear rib # 7 are opposite to the rib flanges. Finally, although it isn't explicitly stated anywhere that I can find, I would assume that the left wing is a mirror of the right? I hope I have captured all the "gotchas" so I can get the wing rib forms finished. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182963#182963 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:54 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play At 08:01 AM 5/13/2008 -0700, Craig Moore wrote: >Check out how Larry Martin put spring loaded nosewheel steering on his >701. Larry is a master tinkerer. > >http://www.skyhawg.com/petals.html > >(yes, pedals is mispelled) > >Best regards, > >Craig Moore A&P >Mancelona, MI Craig Thank you for this post. I've been concerned about the interaction between the direct link nose wheel and the behavior in Montana's winds, and Larry's solution looks to be a good way to go. Terry do not archive Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Aileron Balance Video From: "moorecomp" For all interested in aileron balance, I see this was just posted on youtube from Airfox. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_D4bt0guvM Best regards, Craig Moore A&P Mancelona, MI do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182979#182979 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:58 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play Probably because in Experimental Aviation, we all are test pilots :-) Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S Strictly to plans built and happy test pilot. Do not archive. Gig Giacona wrote: Good God Why? do not archive. ashontz wrote: > Is anyone using a Cessna style spring loaded front wheel steering instead of a hard mount on the wheel? I kind of figured that's the way I'd like to go when the time comes. > > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182909#182909 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:25 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: xl wing(s) questions Lee, That nose rib is opposite so that the web of the rib is toward the fuel tank, not the flanges. Jay in Dallas "Lee Steensland" wrote: > >Folken, > >I have been reviewing the drawings and the websites of everyone that I can find that have come before me, and I feel I'm missing something. > >Looking at drawing 6-w-00 it gives the basic layout of the ribs for the right wing. > >>From what I can tell, not all the nose ribs are the same. The third nose rib appears to have the flanges point the opposite of the rest. > >It also looks like from 6-w-6 that the lightening hole flanges on rear rib # 7 are opposite to the rib flanges. > >Finally, although it isn't explicitly stated anywhere that I can find, I would assume that the left wing is a mirror of the right? > >I hope I have captured all the "gotchas" so I can get the wing rib forms finished. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182963#182963 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Trim tab play From: "Gig Giacona" I fully understand the whole experimental aviation thing. BUT to do it before you know there is a problem is just silly UNLESS you are wanting to just test different ideas. Andy, who I was responding to, has not said he wants to be a tester, he wants to have a safe aircraft. If a problem is there after he puts the gear on then fix it. If it is done before you even know there is a problem you won't know if a problem that the change causes is better or worse than the problem that might or might not be there. ggower_99(at)yahoo.com wrote: > Probably because in Experimental Aviation, we all are test pilots :-) > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183006#183006 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:45 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: xl wing(s) questions From: "Ron Lendon" Lee, Sounds like ya got most of em. Also the main spar end of the nose ribs and rear rib 9 are not all trimmed the same. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183030#183030 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.