Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (ashontz)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (jaybannist@cs.com)
3. 06:53 AM - Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (ashontz)
4. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (jaybannist@cs.com)
5. 08:18 AM - Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (ashontz)
6. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (Carlos Sa)
7. 09:19 AM - Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (ashontz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer |
All good info, interesting comversation because you never really hear about the
problem in cars in general, til you ask of course. Just makes you think that
maybe there's a way to adapt something like a heat riser with an automatic, but
over-rideable control, to an aircraft engine. Obviously the problem has been
thought through for cars to the point that it's generally not an issue and hence
never hear about it.
[quote="jimandmandy(at)yahoo.com"]It is a common problem in old, air cooled Volkswagens,
the kind with a similar configuration as the Corvair. Most of those
cars have a single carb mounted on a long intake manifold made of steel tubing.
There is a heat riser and, on 1968 and later, thermostat regulated intake air
heat. When aftermarket air cleaners and mufflers are fitted, these heat features
are often removed. That is when they experience carb ice. The stock Corvair
had the intake manifolds integral with the head casting, conducting heat to
the carb throttle base. VW's converted to dual carbs seem to be immune because
short cast aluminum manifolds conduct enough heat.
Just curious, why does this general not happen in cars? Is it because the carb
is mounted on
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195512#195512
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer |
Andy,
Have you ever heard of carb heat?? That's your heat riser. The carb heat knob gives
you complete control over sending heated air to the carb, and if used properly,
carb icing will never happen. Problem solved! No need for experimentation.?
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 6:16 am
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer
All good info, interesting comversation because you never really hear about the
problem in cars in general, til you ask of course. Just makes you think that
maybe there's a way to adapt something like a heat riser with an automatic, but
over-rideable control, to an aircraft engine. Obviously the problem has been
thought through for cars to the point that it's generally not an issue and hence
never hear about it.
[quote="jimandmandy(at)yahoo.com"]It is a common problem in old, air cooled
Volkswagens, the kind with a similar configuration as the Corvair. Most of those
cars have a single carb mounted on a long intake manifold made of steel tubing.
There is a heat riser and, on 1968 and later, thermostat regulated intake air
heat. When aftermarket air cleaners and mufflers are fitted, these heat features
are often removed. That is when they experience carb ice. The stock Corvair had
the intake manifolds integral with the head casting, conducting heat to the carb
throttle base. VW's converted to dual carbs seem to be immune because short cast
aluminum manifolds conduct enough heat.
Just curious, why does this general not happen in cars? Is it because the carb
is mounted on
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195512#195512
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer |
Of course I've heard of carb heat. :) What I'm questioning is why you never really
hear about the problem in cars and why. Apparently there's some automatic
controls in cars to take care of the problem, like the vacuum operated heat riser
on the air filter housing that opens and closes while the engine is running.
I've never really given it much thought before, but now I'm interested in how
that control works in a car. I'm just wondering out loud how something like
that vacuum operated control can be adapted to an aircraft engine, with some
sort of manual override cable control. If a car is handling this pretty much automatically
and hence is generally never a problem, why not adapt it for a plane?
jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> Andy,
>
> Have you ever heard of carb heat? That's your heat riser. The carb heat knob
gives you complete control over sending heated air to the carb, and if used
properly, carb icing will never happen. Problem solved! No need for experimentation.
>
> Jay in Dallas
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195532#195532
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer |
Andy,
Carb heat on an airplane and heat riser on a car introduce hot air to the intake
stream.? That makes the air less dense and engine performance suffers.? On cars,
this is "automatic" and it is a somewhat sloppy operation, paying less attention
to the operational timing and high engine performance than to the elimination
of the possibility of carb icing. The high performance and racing guys
totally eliminate this feature to gain performance.? In an airplane, we don't
want an "automatic" heat system to activate unannounced, say at takeoff.? We
simply can't afford the loss of engine performance at such a critical time; so
we choose to stay in personal control of that feature. ?
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 8:53 am
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer
Of course I've heard of carb heat. :) What I'm questioning is why you never
really hear about the problem in cars and why. Apparently there's some automatic
controls in cars to take care of the problem, like the vacuum operated heat
riser on the air filter housing that opens and closes while the engine is
running. I've never really given it much thought before, but now I'm interested
in how that control works in a car. I'm just wondering out loud how something
like that vacuum operated control can be adapted to an aircraft engine, with
some sort of manual override cable control. If a car is handling this pretty
much automatically and hence is generally never a problem, why not adapt it for
a plane?
jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> Andy,
>
> Have you ever heard of carb heat? That's your heat riser. The carb heat knob
gives you complete control over sending heated air to the carb, and if used
properly, carb icing will never happen. Problem solved! No need for
experimentation.
>
> Jay in Dallas
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195532#195532
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer |
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm aware performance would be degraded by carb heat
on all the time, I was just curious as to what's going on with the heat riser
in the car and how automatic is really is. If it's basically on all the time
once the engine's warmed up, well, that aint good for a plane. But if there was
some sort of control that senses temperature and turns it on and off I'd be
interested in what's going on there.
So basically a car always has the carb heat on then.
jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> Andy,
>
> Carb heat on an airplane and heat riser on a car introduce hot air to the intake
stream. That makes the air less dense and engine performance suffers. On
cars, this is "automatic" and it is a somewhat sloppy operation, paying less
attention to the operational timing and high engine performance than to the elimination
of the possibility of carb icing. The high performance and racing guys
totally eliminate this feature to gain performance. In an airplane, we don't
want an "automatic" heat system to activate unannounced, say at takeoff.
We simply can't afford the loss of engine performance at such a critical time;
so we choose to stay in personal control of that feature.
>
> Jay in Dallas
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195551#195551
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer |
A good question, indeed - but why hasn't it been done yet? In a car, carb
ice is inconvenient, but in an airplane it can be fatal...
Carlos
do not archive
2008/7/29 ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org>
>
> Of course I've heard of carb heat. :) What I'm questioning is why you never
> really hear about the problem in cars and why. Apparently there's some
> automatic controls in cars to take care of the problem, like the vacuum
> operated heat riser on the air filter housing that opens and closes while
> the engine is running. I've never really given it much thought before, but
> now I'm interested in how that control works in a car. I'm just wondering
> out loud how something like that vacuum operated control can be adapted to
> an aircraft engine, with some sort of manual override cable control. If a
> car is handling this pretty much automatically and hence is generally never
> a problem, why not adapt it for a plane?
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer |
Exactly. I'll have to look at my Corvair cores and see what's done there, if anything.
[quote="carlossa52(at)gmail.com"]A good question, indeed - but why hasn't it been
done yet? In a car, carb ice is inconvenient, but in an airplane it can be
fatal...
Carlos
do not archive
2008/7/29 ashontz
>
> Of course I've heard of carb heat. :) What I'm questioning is why you never
really hear about the problem in cars and why. Apparently there's some automatic
controls in cars to take care of the problem, like the vacuum operated heat
riser on the air filter housing that opens and closes while the engine is running.
I've never really given it much thought before, but now I'm interested in
how that control works in a car. I'm just wondering out loud how something like
that vacuum operated control can be adapted to an aircraft engine, with some
sort of manual override cable control. If a car is handling this pretty much
automatically and hence is generally never a problem, why not adapt it for a
plane?
>
>
>
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195575#195575
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