---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/29/08: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:16 AM - Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (ashontz) 2. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (jaybannist@cs.com) 3. 06:53 AM - Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (ashontz) 4. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (jaybannist@cs.com) 5. 08:18 AM - Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (ashontz) 6. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (Carlos Sa) 7. 09:19 AM - Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer (ashontz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer From: "ashontz" All good info, interesting comversation because you never really hear about the problem in cars in general, til you ask of course. Just makes you think that maybe there's a way to adapt something like a heat riser with an automatic, but over-rideable control, to an aircraft engine. Obviously the problem has been thought through for cars to the point that it's generally not an issue and hence never hear about it. [quote="jimandmandy(at)yahoo.com"]It is a common problem in old, air cooled Volkswagens, the kind with a similar configuration as the Corvair. Most of those cars have a single carb mounted on a long intake manifold made of steel tubing. There is a heat riser and, on 1968 and later, thermostat regulated intake air heat. When aftermarket air cleaners and mufflers are fitted, these heat features are often removed. That is when they experience carb ice. The stock Corvair had the intake manifolds integral with the head casting, conducting heat to the carb throttle base. VW's converted to dual carbs seem to be immune because short cast aluminum manifolds conduct enough heat. Just curious, why does this general not happen in cars? Is it because the carb is mounted on > [b] -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195512#195512 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer From: jaybannist@cs.com Andy, Have you ever heard of carb heat?? That's your heat riser. The carb heat knob gives you complete control over sending heated air to the carb, and if used properly, carb icing will never happen. Problem solved! No need for experimentation.? Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: ashontz Sent: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 6:16 am Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer All good info, interesting comversation because you never really hear about the problem in cars in general, til you ask of course. Just makes you think that maybe there's a way to adapt something like a heat riser with an automatic, but over-rideable control, to an aircraft engine. Obviously the problem has been thought through for cars to the point that it's generally not an issue and hence never hear about it. [quote="jimandmandy(at)yahoo.com"]It is a common problem in old, air cooled Volkswagens, the kind with a similar configuration as the Corvair. Most of those cars have a single carb mounted on a long intake manifold made of steel tubing. There is a heat riser and, on 1968 and later, thermostat regulated intake air heat. When aftermarket air cleaners and mufflers are fitted, these heat features are often removed. That is when they experience carb ice. The stock Corvair had the intake manifolds integral with the head casting, conducting heat to the carb throttle base. VW's converted to dual carbs seem to be immune because short cast aluminum manifolds conduct enough heat. Just curious, why does this general not happen in cars? Is it because the carb is mounted on > [b] -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195512#195512 ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:49 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer From: "ashontz" Of course I've heard of carb heat. :) What I'm questioning is why you never really hear about the problem in cars and why. Apparently there's some automatic controls in cars to take care of the problem, like the vacuum operated heat riser on the air filter housing that opens and closes while the engine is running. I've never really given it much thought before, but now I'm interested in how that control works in a car. I'm just wondering out loud how something like that vacuum operated control can be adapted to an aircraft engine, with some sort of manual override cable control. If a car is handling this pretty much automatically and hence is generally never a problem, why not adapt it for a plane? jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > Andy, > > Have you ever heard of carb heat? That's your heat riser. The carb heat knob gives you complete control over sending heated air to the carb, and if used properly, carb icing will never happen. Problem solved! No need for experimentation. > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > > > > > -- -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195532#195532 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer From: jaybannist@cs.com Andy, Carb heat on an airplane and heat riser on a car introduce hot air to the intake stream.? That makes the air less dense and engine performance suffers.? On cars, this is "automatic" and it is a somewhat sloppy operation, paying less attention to the operational timing and high engine performance than to the elimination of the possibility of carb icing. The high performance and racing guys totally eliminate this feature to gain performance.? In an airplane, we don't want an "automatic" heat system to activate unannounced, say at takeoff.? We simply can't afford the loss of engine performance at such a critical time; so we choose to stay in personal control of that feature. ? Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: ashontz Sent: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 8:53 am Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer Of course I've heard of carb heat. :) What I'm questioning is why you never really hear about the problem in cars and why. Apparently there's some automatic controls in cars to take care of the problem, like the vacuum operated heat riser on the air filter housing that opens and closes while the engine is running. I've never really given it much thought before, but now I'm interested in how that control works in a car. I'm just wondering out loud how something like that vacuum operated control can be adapted to an aircraft engine, with some sort of manual override cable control. If a car is handling this pretty much automatically and hence is generally never a problem, why not adapt it for a plane? jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > Andy, > > Have you ever heard of carb heat? That's your heat riser. The carb heat knob gives you complete control over sending heated air to the carb, and if used properly, carb icing will never happen. Problem solved! No need for experimentation. > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > > > > > -- -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195532#195532 ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer From: "ashontz" Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm aware performance would be degraded by carb heat on all the time, I was just curious as to what's going on with the heat riser in the car and how automatic is really is. If it's basically on all the time once the engine's warmed up, well, that aint good for a plane. But if there was some sort of control that senses temperature and turns it on and off I'd be interested in what's going on there. So basically a car always has the carb heat on then. jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > Andy, > > Carb heat on an airplane and heat riser on a car introduce hot air to the intake stream. That makes the air less dense and engine performance suffers. On cars, this is "automatic" and it is a somewhat sloppy operation, paying less attention to the operational timing and high engine performance than to the elimination of the possibility of carb icing. The high performance and racing guys totally eliminate this feature to gain performance. In an airplane, we don't want an "automatic" heat system to activate unannounced, say at takeoff. We simply can't afford the loss of engine performance at such a critical time; so we choose to stay in personal control of that feature. > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > > > > > -- -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195551#195551 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:47 AM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer A good question, indeed - but why hasn't it been done yet? In a car, carb ice is inconvenient, but in an airplane it can be fatal... Carlos do not archive 2008/7/29 ashontz > > Of course I've heard of carb heat. :) What I'm questioning is why you never > really hear about the problem in cars and why. Apparently there's some > automatic controls in cars to take care of the problem, like the vacuum > operated heat riser on the air filter housing that opens and closes while > the engine is running. I've never really given it much thought before, but > now I'm interested in how that control works in a car. I'm just wondering > out loud how something like that vacuum operated control can be adapted to > an aircraft engine, with some sort of manual override cable control. If a > car is handling this pretty much automatically and hence is generally never > a problem, why not adapt it for a plane? > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:28 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Carb Ice: Even in Florida, Even in Summer From: "ashontz" Exactly. I'll have to look at my Corvair cores and see what's done there, if anything. [quote="carlossa52(at)gmail.com"]A good question, indeed - but why hasn't it been done yet? In a car, carb ice is inconvenient, but in an airplane it can be fatal... Carlos do not archive 2008/7/29 ashontz > > Of course I've heard of carb heat. :) What I'm questioning is why you never really hear about the problem in cars and why. Apparently there's some automatic controls in cars to take care of the problem, like the vacuum operated heat riser on the air filter housing that opens and closes while the engine is running. I've never really given it much thought before, but now I'm interested in how that control works in a car. I'm just wondering out loud how something like that vacuum operated control can be adapted to an aircraft engine, with some sort of manual override cable control. If a car is handling this pretty much automatically and hence is generally never a problem, why not adapt it for a plane? > > > > [b] -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195575#195575 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.