---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/04/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:56 AM - Re: stabilizer skin alignment (countzero) 2. 06:06 AM - Control Cable Question (LHusky@aol.com) 3. 06:21 AM - Re: Control Cable Question (jaybannist@cs.com) 4. 07:54 AM - Re: Control Cable Question (Paul Mulwitz) 5. 09:32 AM - Re: Control Cable Question (Dave Austin) 6. 09:47 AM - Re: Control Cable Question (Bill Pagan) 7. 01:46 PM - Re: Control Cable Question (LHusky@aol.com) 8. 02:00 PM - New Rudder Question (LHusky@aol.com) 9. 02:12 PM - Re: Control Cable Question (Randy L. Thwing) 10. 02:23 PM - Re: Control Cable Question (raymondj) 11. 03:14 PM - Re: Control Cable Question (Thruster87) 12. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: Control Cable Question (David Downey) 13. 08:23 PM - Re: Control Cable Question (Bryan Martin) 14. 10:19 PM - Re: Corrosion protection (Alf) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:29 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: stabilizer skin alignment From: "countzero" I put in shims where the two outboard ribs attach to the spar. I also found that the precut slots for front attachments needed to be ~3mm longer before I could get the pre-drilled holes on BOTH sides of the stab to align with the skeleton. Just check where the holes on the top side are going to be before you drill the bottom!! Matt also appeared to be having a similar issue with his pre-drilled skin and rib/spar alignment http://www.zodiacxl.com/1%20Horizontal%20Stab.html Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196386#196386 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:29 AM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question Can someone tell me if the control cables are galvanized or stainless? Zenith wants $71.00 for 100 feet, but I am finding it for under $30.00 for 250 feet for galvanized, so I am thinking I am missing something here. Does it have the PVC coating on it? Any help or suggestions on this would be great. I want to get it ordered and start rigging!! Airplane noises are much cooler if parts move!!!!! Larry Husky Madras, Oregon **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question From: jaybannist@cs.com Larry, My cable, from ZAC, is galvanized.? When doing price comparisons, just be sure you are comparing apples and apples.? "Aircraft cable" is not always really aircraft grade cable.? Some venders call it that because it is the right size and "looks" like aircraft cable.? Its kind of like "piano wire". You wouldn't put piano wire from Home Depot in a Steinway, would you?. Jay in Dallas -----Original Message----- From: LHusky@aol.com Sent: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 8:06 am Subject: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question Can someone tell me if the control cables are galvanized or stainless?? Zenith wants $71.00 for 100 feet, but I am finding it for under $30.00 for 250 feet for galvanized, so I am thinking I am missing something here.? Does it have the PVC coating on it?? Any help or suggestions on this would be great.? I want to get it ordered and start rigging!!?? Airplane noises are much cooler if parts move!!!!!? ? Larry Husky Madras, Oregon ? ? Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:31 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question Hi Larry, The kit cable is not coated with vinyl. I have compared the stainless cable with galvanized in the hardware store. The difference is profound. The stainless is much smoother and more flexible. I suspect it would last a lot longer and maintain its length a lot better than the galvanized. I suppose you could use either one on your plane. If your goal is to get minimum cost with reasonable safety then the galvanized might be the best choice. On the other hand, if you want the nicest feeling plane you can get I suspect the stainless would be a better choice. Good luck, Paul XL getting close At 06:06 AM 8/4/2008, you wrote: >Can someone tell me if the control cables are galvanized or >stainless? Zenith wants $71.00 for 100 feet, but I am finding it >for under $30.00 for 250 feet for galvanized, so I am thinking I am >missing something here. Does it have the PVC coating on it? Any >help or suggestions on this would be great. I want to get it >ordered and start rigging!! Airplane noises are much cooler if >parts move!!!!! > >Larry Husky >Madras, Oregon > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:27 AM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question I've been lurking on the control cable subject and will add my comments - I'd check with the FAA as a start. Up here in Canada there are strict requirement standards on them by our FAA, one of which is that they must have the minimum count of wires in each sub-wind and a minimum number of sub-winds to the cable. I've tried to find the actual specs but cannot put my hand on them. Anyone else out there can come up with the specs? Wouldn't galvanized tend to crack and let moisture in and develop rust or a weak spot? Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:18 AM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question Galvanized cable does not rust.- That's why boat trailers for use in salt water are made of galvanized steel.- Both galvanized and stainless are a vailable in like sizes from the supply houses.- Both are mil spec. Here's the link for the cables from WIcks. http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=5439/index.htm l- Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Dave Austin wrote: From: Dave Austin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question I've been lurking on the control cable subject and will add my comments - I'd check with the FAA as a start.- Up here in Canada there are strict requirement standards on them by our FAA, one of wh ich is that they must have the minimum count of-wires in each sub-wind and a minimum number of sub-winds to the cable.- I've tried to find the actual specs but cannot put my hand on them.- Anyone else out there can come up with the specs?-- Wouldn't galvanized tend to crack and let moisture in and develop rust or a weak spot? Dave Austin- 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:31 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question Thanks for all the replies. That helps a lot. I am going to order some tonight. Larry In a message dated 8/4/2008 9:47:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pdn8r@yahoo.com writes: Galvanized cable does not rust. That's why boat trailers for use in salt water are made of galvanized steel. Both galvanized and stainless are available in like sizes from the supply houses. Both are mil spec. Here's the link for the cables from WIcks. http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=5439/index.html Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Dave Austin wrote: From: Dave Austin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question I've been lurking on the control cable subject and will add my comments - I'd check with the FAA as a start. Up here in Canada there are strict requirement standards on them by our FAA, one of which is that they must have the minimum count of wires in each sub-wind and a minimum number of sub-winds to the cable. I've tried to find the actual specs but cannot put my hand on them. Anyone else out there can come up with the specs? Wouldn't galvanized tend to crack and let moisture in and develop rust or a weak spot? Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ======== (mip://045bbc20/3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List") ======== (mip://045bbc20/3D"http://forums.matronics.com") ================================================= ======== (mip://045bbc20/3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution") ======== **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:36 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Zenith601-List: New Rudder Question My Rudder is damaged and I had planned to replace it now that the fuse assembly is nearly done. Has anyone talked with ZAC on weather the new style rudder will fit the XL for sure? I work graveyards and when I get home from work, ZAC is not open yet and when I get up, they are usually gone. 2 hour difference from west coast. I was at Arlington this year and Dragonfly Aviation had their brand new AMD 601XL there. He said it had just a few hours on it. One of the first things I noticed was the rudder looked different. It had a trailing edge piece on it and was very contoured on the top. It was a good looking rudder. I took pictures of everything in hopes of duplicating it. Then here comes the 650 with the same rudder. So now that I need a new rudder, I would like to build the new rudder if it will work. I just read the article that someone just posted and it gives me hope. Larry Husky Madras, Oregon **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:23 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question Hello Bill: Would you think it fair to add that the galvanizing on both the cable and the boat trailer steel are coatings that protect the ferrous base metals from rusting as long as the integrity of the coating is maintained? If the coating is compromised through wear or damage, the base metal is then unprotected and can certainly rust. Stainless steel, on the other hand, is a very corrosion resistant base metal that resists rust without a coating. Note: Even stainless steel is not "rust proof". In extremely harsh conditions, it will corrode as well, but there are many grades of stainless, many of which are very corrosion resistant. What are the arguments of Galvanized verses Stainless aircraft cables? Regards, Randy, Las Vegas Galvanized cable does not rust. That's why boat trailers for use in salt water are made of galvanized steel. Both galvanized and stainless are available in like sizes from the supply houses. Both are mil spec. Here's the link for the cables from WIcks. http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=5439/index.h tml Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:47 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question Galvanized steel, cable or otherwise, does corrode. Galvanizing postpones the corrosion of the steel by corroding first. Further information is available at: http://www.galvanizeit.org/showContent,282,326.cfm#rates Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Pagan" Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:46 AM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question Galvanized cable does not rust. That's why boat trailers for use in salt water are made of galvanized steel. Both galvanized and stainless are available in like sizes from the supply houses. Both are mil spec. Here's the link for the cables from WIcks. http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=5439/index.html Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Dave Austin wrote: From: Dave Austin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question I've been lurking on the control cable subject and will add my comments - I'd check with the FAA as a start. Up here in Canada there are strict requirement standards on them by our FAA, one of which is that they must have the minimum count of wires in each sub-wind and a minimum number of sub-winds to the cable. I've tried to find the actual specs but cannot put my hand on them. Anyone else out there can come up with the specs? Wouldn't galvanized tend to crack and let moisture in and develop rust or a weak spot? Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 5:30 PM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:09 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Control Cable Question From: "Thruster87" There are a couple of issues in deciding between SS and Galv. First galv. cable in the same 7 x 19 strands is more flexible and is also stronger.SS cable is prone to cold embrittlement [high altitudes].SS is more corrosion resistant.Aircraft good quality cable is also lubricated on the inside during manufacture. Make sure if possible to pre- test load [stretch cables to highest load] all your cables after Nico pressing or swagging. Cheers Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196495#196495 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:48 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Control Cable Question when doing the proof load enclose the cable assembly full length in a piece of tubing or pipe. You would not believe the energy stored in those little cables... David L. Downey Harleysville-(SE) PA, USA --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Thruster87 wrote: From: Thruster87 Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Control Cable Question There are a couple of issues in deciding between SS and Galv. First galv. cable in the same 7 x 19 strands is more flexible and is also stronger.SS cable is prone to cold embrittlement [high altitudes].SS is more corrosion resistant.Aircraft good quality cable is also lubricated on the inside duri ng manufacture. Make sure if possible to pre- test load [stretch cables to hig hest load] all your cables after Nico pressing or swagging. Cheers Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196495#196495 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:38 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Control Cable Question Chrome plating works that way but not zinc plating. If you scratch through chrome plating on steel, the underlying steel will begin to rust under the scratch. Zinc plating will protect the underlying steel even across small gaps in the plating. The zinc acts as the anode in the reaction and will oxidize before the steel. The steel will not rust until most of the zinc has corroded away. As I recall, stainless steel cable has a bit lower tensile strength than galvanized steel cable of the same diameter and galvanized steel cost quite a bit less. On Aug 4, 2008, at 5:12 PM, Randy L. Thwing wrote: > Hello Bill: > > Would you think it fair to add that the galvanizing on both the > cable and the boat trailer steel are coatings that protect the > ferrous base metals from rusting as long as the integrity of the > coating is maintained? If the coating is compromised through wear > or damage, the base metal is then unprotected and can certainly rust. > > Stainless steel, on the other hand, is a very corrosion resistant > base metal that resists rust without a coating. Note: Even > stainless steel is not "rust proof". In extremely harsh conditions, > it will corrode as well, but there are many grades of stainless, > many of which are very corrosion resistant. > > What are the arguments of Galvanized verses Stainless aircraft cables? > > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Corrosion protection From: "Alf" Got it. Thanks for the info. .. Thruster87 wrote: > Hi Alf The reason you use aluprep is to remove any oxide etc from the surface so that the alodine will work.You can tell if the surface is clean enough by pouring water on the surface and it will adhere /run nicely on it.Alodine produces a chemical reaction with the aluminum surface a bit like electro plating and this layer would be removed or damaged if you then use an etch primer. Cheers Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196560#196560 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.