Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:04 PM - Not sure what to think about this one (BiltACesna@aol.com)
2. 01:06 PM - Re: Not sure what to think about this one (BiltACesna@aol.com)
3. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion protection (Jim Belcher)
4. 01:15 PM - Re: Not sure what to think about this one (BiltACesna@aol.com)
5. 01:16 PM - Re: Not sure what to think about this one (jonaburns)
6. 01:20 PM - Re: Not sure what to think about this one (jonaburns)
7. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: Not sure what to think about this one (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
8. 01:29 PM - Re: Not sure what to think about this one (Gig Giacona)
9. 01:30 PM - Re: Not sure what to think about this one (Gig Giacona)
10. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Not sure what to think about this one (Jay Maynard)
11. 01:32 PM - Re: Not sure what to think about this one (David Downey)
12. 01:33 PM - Re: Re: Not sure what to think about this one (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
13. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion protection (Craig Payne)
14. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion protection (David Downey)
15. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Not sure what to think about this one (David Downey)
16. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: Not sure what to think about this one (Jay Maynard)
17. 02:02 PM - Re: Re: Not sure what to think about this one (LarryMcFarland)
18. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: Not sure what to think about this one (Floyd)
19. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: Not sure what to think about this one (Bill Naumuk)
20. 03:53 PM - Re: Not sure what to think about this one (jonaburns)
21. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion protection (Jim Belcher)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Not sure what to think about this one |
One injured in plane crash near Farmersville
Brad Kellar & Daniel Walker
Herald-Banner Staff
FARMERSVILLE =94 The pilot of a single-engine aircraft suffered broke
n bones
and was hospitalized in Dallas after the plane crashed Thursday morning nea
r
Farmersville.
Dennis Levy, 65, was said by his son Joshua to have suffered two broken
ankles and a broken pelvis as a result of the accident and was transported
to
Baylor Hospital in Dallas.
=9CHe is not in critical condition or anything,=9D Joshua Levy s
aid, noting it
could have been worse, as the Zodiac aircraft was believed to have suffered
the same problem =94 where the glass canopy above the pilot=99s
seat came off
during flight =94 once before.
The plane was reported to have crashed in a field off of Collin County Road
698, near U.S. Highway 380 and just on the Collin County side of the border
with Hunt County.
Monique Matherne said the plane flew over her home. =9CIt flew low ov
er our
homes, took a left turn and then came down,=9D Matherne said.
=9CThe pilot was
still sitting in the plane when the rescue crew got here and came running a
cross
the field.=9D
Dennis Levy was reported to have been doing a training flight with a studen
t
at the time of the crash, although the student was believed to have been
unhurt.
=9CI don=99t ev en think they took him to the hospital,
=9D Joshua Levy, the owner
of the plane and LCI Solutions in Plano, told the Herald-Banner.
He said they have been having repeated difficulties with the plane.
=9CWe=99ve had months of problems,=9D Levy said, includin
g one prior incident
where the canopy had come off of the plane, which resulted in the Levys
contacting the manufacturer.
=9CThey told us to bring the plane down there,=9D Levy said.
=9C I assumed they
did OK. I guess I was wrong.=9D
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut
00030000000007 )
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
_http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7208319&version=4&l
ocale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1_
(http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7208319&version=4&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1
.1.1)
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion protection |
On Friday 15 August 2008 00:20, Thruster87 wrote:
>
> Early 50's models of the de Havilland Comet suffered from catastrophic
> metal fatigue, causing a string of well-publicised accidents. As they found
> out how stress risers are a lot more critical on pressurized aircraft but
> do not under estimate there importance.
I could be mistaken, but I believe the metal fatigue in the case of the Comet
was due to a structural aerodynamic problem. That is, there was structural
resonance within the airframe. The additional energy imparted by the (then)
much higher airspeeds caused the resonance to surface, which in turn flexed
the metal, causing the fatigue, and ultimate failure.
--
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
================================================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
_http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=451BB&cmndfind
.x=11&cmndfind.y=16_
(http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=451BB&cmndfind.x=11&cmndfind.y=16)
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
WOW!
Jay Bannister was scheduled to go flying with him, and I was scheduled today, but
did not due to weather...
The owners of this plane just started offering training in this 650XLi.
http://sportplanetraining.com
Jon Burns
601XL "mostly done"
Corvair - somewhere
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198775#198775
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
I have 650 on the brain... of course, I mean 601XLi.
Jon Burns
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198779#198779
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
Looks like AMD is taking some heat on this one. It is only 7 months old.
Jeff
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
When I saw the location and saw that the plane was being used for training I was
concerned that this was the same one that Jay and I have been talking about.
Damn, I was planing to get hours in that plane before first flight. I hope they
were insured and replace it.
jonaburns wrote:
> WOW!
>
> Jay Bannister was scheduled to go flying with him, and I was scheduled today,
but did not due to weather...
>
> The owners of this plane just started offering training in this 650XLi.
>
> http://sportplanetraining.com
>
>
>
> Jon Burns
> 601XL "mostly done"
> Corvair - somewhere
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198782#198782
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
Where are you hearing that? We don't even know what the cause what yet.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
> Looks like AMD is taking some heat on this one. It is only 7 months old.
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198783#198783
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 04:24:27PM -0400, Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote:
> Looks like AMD is taking some heat on this one. It is only 7 months old.
I saw N451BB at Sebring; it was the Zodiac AMD had sitting there to show
folks. Nice airplane. I'm sorry to see it in that shape, but happy that
nobody was killed.
I'm not sure the canopy came completely detached: you can see the Koger
sunshade still atttached, and it's *only* attached to the canopy (at least
by AMD). It'll be very interesting to hear just what happened - and hard for
me to avoid pestering the folks at AMD...
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
Pretty good structure - looks like decent protection.
David L. Downey Harleysville-(SE) PA, USA
--- On Fri, 8/15/08, BiltACesna@aol.com <BiltACesna@aol.com> wrote:
From: BiltACesna@aol.com <BiltACesna@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Not sure what to think about this one
http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7208319&version
=4&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews
on AOL Autos.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
If you read the first post they say they have had problems with it.
Jeff
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion protection |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet
"Engineers subjected an identical airframe, G-ALYU ("Yoke Uncle"), to
repeated re-pressurisation and over-pressurisation and after 3,057 flight
cycles (1,221 actual and 1,836 simulated), Yoke Uncle failed due to metal
fatigue near the front port-side escape hatch.[13] Investigators began
considering fatigue as the most likely cause of both accidents and initiated
further research into measurable strain on the skin. Stress around the
window corners was found to be much higher than expected, "probably over
40,000 psi," and stresses on the skin were generally more than previously
expected or tested. This was due to stress concentration, a consequence of
the window's square shape.
The problem was exacerbated by the punch rivet construction technique
employed. The windows had been engineered to be glued and riveted, but had
been punch riveted only. Unlike drill riveting, the imperfect nature of the
hole created by punch riveting may cause the start of fatigue cracks around
the rivet.
The principal investigator concluded, "In the light of known properties of
the aluminium alloy D.T.D. 546 or 746 of which the skin was made and in
accordance with the advice I received from my Assessors, I accept the
conclusion of RAE that this is a sufficient explanation of the failure of
the cabin skin of Yoke Uncle by fatigue after a small number, namely, 3,060
cycles of pressurisation."[14]
Before the Elba accident, G-ALYP had made 1,290 pressurised flights and at
the time of the Naples accident, and G-ALYY had made 900 pressurised
flights. Walker said he was not surprised by this, noting that the
difference was about 3 to 1 and previous experience with metal fatigue
suggested a total range of 9 to 1 between experiment and outcome in the
field could result in failure. Thus, if the tank test result was "typical,"
aircraft failures could be expected at anywhere from 1000 to 9000 cycles. By
then, the RAE had reconstructed about two-thirds of G-ALYP at Farnborough
and found fatigue crack growth from a rivet hole at the low-drag fiberglass
forward "window" around the Automatic Direction Finder, which had caused a
catastrophic breakup of the aircraft in high altitude flight."
-- Craig
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Belcher
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Corrosion protection
On Friday 15 August 2008 00:20, Thruster87 wrote:
<alania@optusnet.com.au>
>
> Early 50's models of the de Havilland Comet suffered from catastrophic
> metal fatigue, causing a string of well-publicised accidents. As they
found
> out how stress risers are a lot more critical on pressurized aircraft but
> do not under estimate there importance.
I could be mistaken, but I believe the metal fatigue in the case of the
Comet
was due to a structural aerodynamic problem. That is, there was structural
resonance within the airframe. The additional energy imparted by the (then)
much higher airspeeds caused the resonance to surface, which in turn flexed
the metal, causing the fatigue, and ultimate failure.
--
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
================================================
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion protection |
All of the data published since the mid 60s points to very specific fatigue
critical geometry around the windows. Speed was not even involved, pressur
ization cycles were the specific cause identified in the failure of the fus
elage surrounding the windows and escape hatches.
David L. Downey Harleysville-(SE) PA, USA
--- On Fri, 8/15/08, Jim Belcher <z601@anemicaardvark.com> wrote:
From: Jim Belcher <z601@anemicaardvark.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Corrosion protection
<z601@anemicaardvark.com>
On Friday 15 August 2008 00:20, Thruster87 wrote:
<alania@optusnet.com.au>
>
> Early 50's models of the de Havilland Comet suffered from catastrophic
> metal fatigue, causing a string of well-publicised accidents. As they
found
> out how stress risers are a lot more critical on pressurized aircraft bu
t
> do not under estimate there importance.
I could be mistaken, but I believe the metal fatigue in the case of the Com
et
was due to a structural aerodynamic problem. That is, there was structural
resonance within the airframe. The additional energy imparted by the (then)
much higher airspeeds caused the resonance to surface, which in turn flexed
the metal, causing the fatigue, and ultimate failure.
--
=======================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
=======================
=0A=0A=0A
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
how come the date of the certificate was only 8-11-08 on the FAA site? Did
I misread it?
David L. Downey Harleysville-(SE) PA, USA
--- On Fri, 8/15/08, Afterfxllc@aol.com <Afterfxllc@aol.com> wrote:
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com <Afterfxllc@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Not sure what to think about this one
Looks like AMD is taking some heat on this one. It is only 7 months
old.
-
-
Jeff
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews
on AOL Autos.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 01:41:16PM -0700, David Downey wrote:
> how come the date of the certificate was only 8-11-08 on the FAA site? Did
> I misread it?
It's probably the date that it was registered as being sold to the current
owner. I can personally say that I saw that airplane in January at Sebring.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
Jon,
If you look closely at the pictures, you see it's not a 650, but a 601XL.
The 650 has a two piece canopy and rollover protection which are not
seen in the pics.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
jonaburns wrote:
>
> WOW!
>
> Jay Bannister was scheduled to go flying with him, and I was scheduled today,
but did not due to weather...
>
> The owners of this plane just started offering training in this 650XLi.
>
> http://sportplanetraining.com
>
>
> Jon Burns
> 601XL "mostly done"
> Corvair - somewhere
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
Jay
Do you know if that plane had the new or old canopy catch system?
Floyd Wilkes
601 XL
17 hours into phase I
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Maynard" <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Not sure what to think about this one
>
> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 01:41:16PM -0700, David Downey wrote:
>> how come the date of the certificate was only 8-11-08 on the FAA site?
>> Did
>> I misread it?
>
> It's probably the date that it was registered as being sold to the current
> owner. I can personally say that I saw that airplane in January at
> Sebring.
> --
> Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
> http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
> Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
> AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
All-
It looks to me like the canopy frame is still attached. Total
supposition on my part, but this may very well have been akin to an accident
caused by a pilot getting rattled when his door came open.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Not sure what to think about this one
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
>
> Jon,
> If you look closely at the pictures, you see it's not a 650, but a 601XL.
> The 650 has a two piece canopy and rollover protection which are not seen
> in the pics.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> do not archive
> jonaburns wrote:
>>
>> WOW!
>>
>> Jay Bannister was scheduled to go flying with him, and I was scheduled
>> today, but did not due to weather...
>>
>> The owners of this plane just started offering training in this 650XLi.
>>
>> http://sportplanetraining.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon Burns
>> 601XL "mostly done"
>> Corvair - somewhere
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Not sure what to think about this one |
Please see Jay's thread concerning this incident on the Zenith-List thread titled
"Crash."
Jon Burns
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198818#198818
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion protection |
On Friday 15 August 2008 15:40, David Downey wrote:
> All of the data published since the mid 60s points to very specific fatigue
> critical geometry around the windows. Speed was not even involved,
> pressurization cycles were the specific cause identified in the failure of
> the fuselage surrounding the windows and escape hatches.
Perhaps my memory is faulty.
--
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
================================================
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