Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:53 AM - Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (vvkidd@mindspring.com)
2. 05:17 AM - Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 05:35 AM - Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Floyd)
4. 05:48 AM - Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Trainnut01@aol.com)
5. 06:56 AM - Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Gig Giacona)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Trainnut01@aol.com)
7. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Jay Maynard)
8. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Dirk Zahtilla)
9. 07:58 AM - Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Mitch Hodges)
10. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Jim Belcher)
11. 08:42 AM - Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Mitch Hodges)
12. 09:30 AM - Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Gig Giacona)
13. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question (Gary Gower)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
This is my first visit to the site.
Recently completed my 601. During the fuel gauge calibration, using Blue Mtn EFIS
Lite G4, I encountered a problem. After adding 9 gals to each tank the gauge
reads full. I suspect that the float is topped out against the top of the
tank. I checked all resistances both empty and full and noted the change in
resistance as the float moves up and down, all appears OK there. Contacted Zenith
and they said no one else had reported a problem like this. I have the long
range 15 gal tanks. I bent the float 'Z' shape that Zenith described in there
literature.
Anyone else having this problem?
Victor Kidd
Charleston, WV
N922VK
vvkidd@mindspring.com
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
Hi Victor,
Resistance fuel senders are notoriously inaccurate.
You should adjust your float so it is reasonably accurate when
showing the tank is empty. A full indication with this adjustment
(and the wing dihedral) should not be taken seriously. It is
standard practice to visually check your fuel level in your preflight
inspection. This, along with fuel burn planning should be used for
every flight.
If you want a more accurate fuel gauge you should consider installing
capacitance senders. These are inherently more accurate. However,
still your flight planning should include planning for fuel burn and
visual inspection of fuel levels before flight.
Paul
XL nearly done
do not archive
At 04:53 AM 9/10/2008, you wrote:
>Recently completed my 601. During the fuel gauge calibration, using
>Blue Mtn EFIS Lite G4, I encountered a problem. After adding 9 gals
>to each tank the gauge reads full. I suspect that the float is
>topped out against the top of the tank. I checked all resistances
>both empty and full and noted the change in resistance as the float
>moves up and down, all appears OK there. Contacted Zenith and they
>said no one else had reported a problem like this. I have the long
>range 15 gal tanks. I bent the float 'Z' shape that Zenith described
>in there literature.
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
Victor,
I had the same problem. I have the Dynon system. After adding 10.8 gal,
the float hits the top of the tank.
The problem is the 15 gal tanks are longer then the standard tanks and with
the angle of the wing the float hits the top before the tank is full.. I
believe the Z bend probably works for the standard tank.
I made a dip stick to check the tanks. Any gas visible through the filler
port is about 6 gallons in the tank.
Floyd Wilkes
601XL O-200
Phase 1 complete!!
----- Original Message -----
From: <vvkidd@mindspring.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:53 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question
>
> This is my first visit to the site.
>
> Recently completed my 601. During the fuel gauge calibration, using Blue
> Mtn EFIS Lite G4, I encountered a problem. After adding 9 gals to each
> tank the gauge reads full. I suspect that the float is topped out against
> the top of the tank. I checked all resistances both empty and full and
> noted the change in resistance as the float moves up and down, all appears
> OK there. Contacted Zenith and they said no one else had reported a
> problem like this. I have the long range 15 gal tanks. I bent the float
> 'Z' shape that Zenith described in there literature.
>
> Anyone else having this problem?
>
> Victor Kidd
> Charleston, WV
> N922VK
> vvkidd@mindspring.com
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
Victor
That's just the nature of the beast. Because of the length of the tank and
the dihedral of the wing you cannot prevent the float from topping out. It does
not matter where in the tank you place the float it will not be able to
monitor the full range of fuel levels. The FAA only requires that the float shows
empty correctly.
Carroll Jernigan
Lenoir City TN
601XL Working on cockpit and Corvair.
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
This is why I'm considering pulling the VDO senders and replacing them with capacitance
senders before I mount the wings.
While proper planning, preflight and fuel management is still required it seems
kinda cheesy that we can't make the fuel gauge read something close to right
especially when we are using something like a Dynon or Blue Mountain.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3575#203575
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
To be accurate a capacitance sender for 601XL would have to be long enough to
extend diagonally from the outbord top to the inboard bottom of the tank.
That's close to five feet on a 15 gallon tank. I think I'll buy a flow meter.
Carroll
do not archive
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:16:05AM -0400, Trainnut01@aol.com wrote:
> I think I'll buy a flow meter.
Do that anyway. It's more useful than I thought to know just how much fuel
you're burning in any given flight regime.
FWIW, I don't know which senders AMD uses, but I do know the gauge is quite
accurate from 9 down to 1 gallon. Above that, as others have noted, the
shape and angle of the tank gets in the way. I haven't found that not being
as accurate aobve 9 gallons has been any real issue.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
You could also put in 2 senders (with switches) one at each end of the
tank, but I too think the full indication is not nearly as important as
the E, so I just wouldn't bother.
Dirk
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
jmaynard wrote:
> ... but I do know the gauge is quite
> accurate from 9 down to 1 gallon. Above that, as others have noted, the
> shape and angle of the tank gets in the way. I haven't found that not being
> as accurate aobve 9 gallons has been any real issue.
>
Maybe I'm missing something (or the vehicles I drive/fly/float with are of the
too cheap to be accurate class) but I don't recall ever having a vehicle of any
sort that was very accurate at the "full" end of the tank. I guess I've always
assumed that was normal due to the sender/float drawbacks.
As far as the FAA/FAR regulations, I also think there must be some requirement
other than "accurate at Empty" otherwise, wouldn't just a placard that says "Fuel
= Empty" be sufficient! (Sorry, couldn't resist).
--------
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
Wings Under Perpetual Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3593#203593
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
On Wednesday 10 September 2008 09:58, Mitch Hodges wrote:
> As far as the FAA/FAR regulations, I also think there must be some
> requirement other than "accurate at Empty" otherwise, wouldn't just a
> placard that says "Fuel = Empty" be sufficient! (Sorry, couldn't resist).
No, that was even one of the questions on the A&P written - "when must a fuel
measuring system be accurate?" Ans: When it shows empty.
I find this less than satisifying, although I conceed it is likely to be more
important to know when the tank is empty than when it is full. A lot of stuff
in certification requirements dates back to when the earth was cooling, and
instrumentation was not always that accurate.
Despite the physical limitations of installation in the Zenith, of the
solutions that come to mind, I find the capacitive probe the most likely to
give me results I could rely upon at all fuel levels. But I'd like (expense
and weight ignored) to have a fuel flow meter also, so I could see just how
much my actions were influencing fuel burn.
I don't personally find a fuel flow gauge the sole answer. While it gives you
a feeling about how much fuel you are burning, and a totalizer can give you a
pretty good idea when the tank is empty, there is nothing in the tank itself
measuring the present value. In other words, if the thing breaks, you may not
know it until you run out of fuel.
=============================================
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
================================================
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
z601(at)anemicaardvark.co wrote:
> No, that was even one of the questions on the A&P written - "when must a fuel
> measuring system be accurate?" Ans: When it shows empty.
I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with my comment, but your point is well taken.
I do understand that this is the only requirement for accuracy. I also understand
there is a requirement that it actually be attempting to make a measurement
leading up to empty.
I'll just be happy to get to the point that my Volkswagen senders have an opportunity
to measure something!
--------
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
Wings Under Perpetual Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3613#203613
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
Let's keep one thing in mind. The regulation 91.205(b)9 reads...
"(9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity
of fuel in each tank."
The must read empty correctly comes from 23.1337
(1) Each fuel quantity indicator must
be calibrated to read zero during
level flight when the quantity of fuel
remaining in the tank is equal to the
unusable fuel supply determined under
23.959(a);
Please note that the word "ONLY" doesn't appear in that paragraph. It is an FAA
interpretation and subject to re-interpretation at the whim of the administrator
who, at best, is going to change every 8 years or so.
I won't get into the issue about if Part 23 even applies to us...
23.1 Applicability.
(a) This part prescribes airworthiness
standards for the issue of type certificates,
and changes to those certificates,
for airplanes in the normal, utility,
acrobatic, and commuter categories.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3624#203624
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question |
Hello Jim,
-
The normal way to do the fuel management in a airplane.- is the Flight Pl
an.--
-
There, with the fuel rate of the engine, the amount of gasoline in the tank
(s) before take off (fisical messure),- the distance-to fly in the char
t (remember before GPS),-the wind direction and speed,- we have to esti
mate (less reserve) the distance to fly and/or -time in the air.
-
In case there is something wrong on our estimate or find any headwind, etc.
-then we need an accurate "empty gauge" to see if we can get to the alte
rnate landing strip we previosly chosed in our flight plan..-
-
Is-better to be conservative and fly less diatance/time before refuels th
an wait until the air conditioning of the plane (propeller)- stops and we
beguin to sweat...- :-)
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
"Old pilots I had the honor to know, planned more than 45 minutes reserve i
n all their flights"
-
--- On Wed, 9/10/08, Jim Belcher <z601@anemicaardvark.com> wrote:
From: Jim Belcher <z601@anemicaardvark.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Recently completed Fuel Gauge Question
<z601@anemicaardvark.com>
On Wednesday 10 September 2008 09:58, Mitch Hodges wrote:
> As far as the FAA/FAR regulations, I also think there must be some
> requirement other than "accurate at Empty" otherwise,
wouldn't just a
> placard that says "Fuel = Empty" be sufficient! (Sorry,
couldn't resist).
No, that was even one of the questions on the A&P written - "when must
a fuel
measuring system be accurate?" Ans: When it shows empty.
I find this less than satisifying, although I conceed it is likely to be mo
re
important to know when the tank is empty than when it is full. A lot of stu
ff
in certification requirements dates back to when the earth was cooling, and
instrumentation was not always that accurate.
Despite the physical limitations of installation in the Zenith, of the
solutions that come to mind, I find the capacitive probe the most likely to
give me results I could rely upon at all fuel levels. But I'd like (expense
and weight ignored) to have a fuel flow meter also, so I could see just how
much my actions were influencing fuel burn.
I don't personally find a fuel flow gauge the sole answer. While it gives
you
a feeling about how much fuel you are burning, and a totalizer can give you
a
pretty good idea when the tank is empty, there is nothing in the tank itsel
f
measuring the present value. In other words, if the thing breaks, you may n
ot
know it until you run out of fuel.
====================
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
=======================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
=======================
=0A=0A=0A
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|