Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:50 AM - Re: Canopy Safety (Frank Derfler)
2. 05:02 AM - Re: Re: Canopy Safety (Jay Maynard)
3. 09:25 AM - Re: props (Gig Giacona)
4. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: props (Jim Belcher)
5. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: props (Jay Maynard)
6. 12:03 PM - Re: props (Gig Giacona)
7. 12:16 PM - CH 650 canning supression angle (France)
8. 01:46 PM - CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight (kevstewart)
9. 02:11 PM - 601XL Tail Light Kit For Sale (Dave VanLanen)
10. 02:32 PM - Re: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight (LarryMcFarland)
11. 02:43 PM - Re: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight (Dirk Zahtilla)
12. 02:51 PM - Re: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight (Dirk Zahtilla)
13. 05:28 PM - Re: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight (Jay Maynard)
14. 05:47 PM - Re: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight (jaybannist@cs.com)
15. 10:43 PM - 601xl aeilerons (K Dilks)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Safety |
I wasn't going to tell this story because I've already taken enough
ribbing... but there I was...
My AMD-made 601XL always sits outside, so I lock the canopy handle after
every flight. I did all of my pre-flight one day and went flying. But,
after I landed, the interior unlock handle wouldn't budge. I immediately
had a sneaking suspicion what happened. When I lifted the canopy my key
ring was still in the lock. It rotated enough to re-lock the handle. So
there I was, snug inside my locked up 601 on a beautiful sunny and hot
Florida Keys day.
Yes, AMD has some nice holes in the canopy rail and yes I could have
practiced pulling on both cables with my fingers, but why bother with
that? Our local chapter of the EAA has a hangar right at the approach end
of runway 07 at Marathon. And yes, the senior members of the buzzards roost
sit on lawn chairs in the shade of the hangar grading landings... and
solving the problems of the world over and over again.
They had just awarded me a 9.1 on my landing, which is about as high as they
ever go, so I simply taxied over there to my friends, shut down, and waved
the boys over. After they teetered and tottered to the airplane, I managed
to make my situation known by shouting through the canopy. One of them
finally put the box from his hearing aid on the plastic and got the
problem. After they understood, I two-fingered the canopy key out to them
through the vent port in the canopy expecting them to unlock the handle.
Well of course, then the fun began. Right there around my airplane they
started an auction for the key. Proceeds to go to the chapter, of course.
I was forced to bid from inside my sauna box cockpit. Often, they "couldn't
hear" my bid before they raised the bidding again.
The bottom line is that the chapter is now well off financially and the boys
on buzzards roost now have something to hold over my head. After I got it
properly shimmed, I've never had a problem keeping the canopy closed. But,
if you lock your canopy handle, beware the key! Do a quick check of the
handle movement before you make the first "click".
-- Frank Derfler, Marathon in the Florida Keys
Twitter! Follow me at http://Twitter.com/Fderfler
See my new Novel, "A Glint in Time" at http://GreatGuyBooks.com.
See my discussion of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.com
Anybody who READS (anybody out there?) See www.greatguybooks.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Safety |
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 07:50:11AM -0400, Frank Derfler wrote:
> if you lock your canopy handle, beware the key! Do a quick check of the
> handle movement before you make the first "click".
Hm. Just another reason to like the new-style canopy latch: with the handle
on the fuselage, instead of the canopy, the key wouldn't turn this way. In
fact, while it's theoretically possible to close the canopy without moving
the handle, in practice, it's not: the bolts sit on top of the flat part of
the latch hooks, and no amount of pushing will make the canopy latch.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC
Message 3
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In all seriousness if I found a prop maker that would custom build a wooden prop
for less than Sensenich did there is no way I fly behind it.
I checked my records and the exact price was $725 + $26 shipping for my 64x43 prop.
I ordered mine in February of this year and got it about 11 week later.
Just for fun do three Google searches and look at the hit counts at the top of
the page and then think how long Sensenich has been building props and how many
are out there as opposed the others.
IVO Prop Failure
Warpdrive Prop Failure
Sensenich Prop Failure
z601(at)anemicaardvark.co wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 16:02, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
>
> > Why not just have Sensenich make you one? My custom prop (which spins the
> > wrong way) was a little under $800.
> >
> >
>
> That's cheaper than I would have expected. I'll consider them.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9857#209857
Message 4
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On Wednesday 22 October 2008 11:24, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> In all seriousness if I found a prop maker that would custom build a wooden
> prop for less than Sensenich did there is no way I fly behind it.
There supposedly are some good non-certificated prop makers out there. At one
time, one lived in my area (about 30 miles from here, near Marfa, Texas). His
props were legendary, but he's long since deceased, or I'd at least pay him
a visit.
But, as I think you are suggesting, there is some bottom line price at which
one can make a quality prop (or anything else, for that matter). I suspect
the numbers you quote from Sensenich are at or near that value.
> I checked my records and the exact price was $725 + $26 shipping for my
> 64x43 prop. I ordered mine in February of this year and got it about 11
> week later.
Those are good numbers to have. What I needed was a good source, a price, and
a typical delivery. That tells me about when in my building process to invest
the capital in the prop. Do you by chance have a part number, or did they
quote solely based on diameter and pitch?
If that's the prop I think it is, it's the one AMD used on the FAR23 version
of the 601XL. In that case, it's a known good match to an O200. While I'm
building an experimental aircraft, I'd really like to limit the number of
things I'm experimenting with at any one time.
I'm surprised Sensenich's price is that low. I guess I'm accustomed to their
metal props, which sometimes ran in the $2,500-$3,000 range when I bought
them for relatively non-complex GA aircraft.
Thanks!
=============================================
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
================================================
Message 5
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On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:52:26AM -0500, Jim Belcher wrote:
> > I checked my records and the exact price was $725 + $26 shipping for my
> > 64x43 prop.
> If that's the prop I think it is, it's the one AMD used on the FAR23 version
> of the 601XL.
Nope. The AMD prop is a 68x57 wood/composite...at least on my aircraft. I
suspect a 64x43 would be badly underpitched.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC
Message 6
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Without a doubt there are some great wooden prop makers out there. But they ain't
cheap. And since they are in most cases handmade getting the exact same thing
twice is tough.
Sensenich, on the other hand, has years of experience making certified props that
have to be the same every single time. And for the record my one off prop is
balanced as well as I can measure. And believe me when I say, when it was at
my house I tried a bunch of different things to check the balance.
http://www.sensenichprop.com/index.htm
Their website has plenty of info including a section that deals with specific engines
and experimental planes.
This guy can answer ALL your questions.
Charley Denny
Sales and Technical Support
Sensenich Wood Propeller Co. Inc.
2008 Wood Court
Plant City, FL. 33563
813-752-3711
813-752-2818 Fax
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9881#209881
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| Subject: | CH 650 canning supression angle |
Hi 601 and 650 Group
I just want to know what size of the angle .016 or .025 , and
location on wing and fuselage on the Zodiac CH 650.
Message 8
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| Subject: | CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight |
Hi All,
I need some advice. Today I flew a very nicely finished XL (with a view to buying
it) that has recently had the Y stick changed to the dual sticks.
I have never flown a 601 before but I noted that the aircraft was quite sensitive
in pitch on the elevators but very heavy in roll on the ailerons. Is this normal?
I noted on the ground that the aileron movement from the P2 position may have been
heavier than from the P1 position.
Is it rigged too tightly or is this just how it is?
Any advice gratefully received.
Thanks,
Kevin
--------
Recreational pilot flying out of
EGHD Plymouth, UK.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9903#209903
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| Subject: | 601XL Tail Light Kit For Sale |
I decided to install a different lighting system on my 601XL, so I will not
be using the rudder tail light assembly that I got with my kit.
According to the Zenith website, the cost of the tail light kit (8002TL) is
$72.80. If you are interested, I will ship it to you for $40 in the US, (if
out-of-country, I'll need to determine shipping costs first). I also have
the fiberglass tail light bracket (FTB), which I will include for no
additional charge, (it is not the best quality, but with some work it could
be used, or if you don't want to use it you could order another from Zenith
for $20.80 + shipping).
E-mail me off-list if you are interested.
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Do Not Archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight |
Hi Kevin,
The aileron movement might be a little stiffer in roll because they
depend on flexing the .016 aluminum rather than hinges.
Cables should not be too tight, but nearer 20-25 lbs rather than
commercial aircraft 30-40 lbs. Likely it's the Zenith flex hinge
but you can remove that if it was done right and put in regular hinges
if you want. With the larger span, I'd expect the XL to
be a little more drawn out on roll response. And yes, the elevator is
pitch sensitive, but you do get comfortable with that quickly..
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
kevstewart wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I need some advice. Today I flew a very nicely finished XL (with a view to buying
it) that has recently had the Y stick changed to the dual sticks.
>
> I have never flown a 601 before but I noted that the aircraft was quite sensitive
in pitch on the elevators but very heavy in roll on the ailerons. Is this
normal?
>
> I noted on the ground that the aileron movement from the P2 position may have
been heavier than from the P1 position.
>
> Is it rigged too tightly or is this just how it is?
>
> Any advice gratefully received.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight |
Hi Kevin, I am just starting building (from scratch) an XL and I recently
got checked out in a factory version and indeed the aileron control was very
heavy to the point where I have borrowed a set of RV6 plans to copy their
ailerons whitch are the lightest and smothest I've ever flown. If you're
planning buying a finished plane it might be possible to modify the ailerons
but could be a lot of work.
As this is my 3rd homebuilt I hae learned that the main reason for the heavy
ailerons is that they are not balanced. That means that the hinges are at
the very front of the aileron. If you look at other designs, especially
aerobatic planes the hinge point may be as much as 25% rear of the leading
edge. The effect of this is when deflcted the leading edge pressure offsets
the trailing edge pressure, in the most extreme cases there is literally 0
pressure required at the stick.
Hope thats not too much info, and if not enough, let me know...
Dirk Z
Carson City, Nv. USA
Hi All,
>
> I need some advice. Today I flew a very nicely finished XL (with a view to
> buying it) that has recently had the Y stick changed to the dual sticks.
>
> I have never flown a 601 before but I noted that the aircraft was quite
> sensitive in pitch on the elevators but very heavy in roll on the
> ailerons. Is this normal?
>
> I noted on the ground that the aileron movement from the P2 position may
> have been heavier than from the P1 position.
>
> Is it rigged too tightly or is this just how it is?
>
> Any advice gratefully received.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin
>
> --------
> Recreational pilot flying out of
> EGHD Plymouth, UK.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dirk Zahtilla" <ideaz1@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control
weight
> <ideaz1@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Hi Kevin,again
The XL I checked out in, factory plane with piano hinges on ailerons and
dual sticks...way too heavy and I'd hate cross contry with so much effort
required.
> Dirk Z
> Carson City, Nv. USA
>
> Hi All,
>>
>> I need some advice. Today I flew a very nicely finished XL (with a view
>> to buying it) that has recently had the Y stick changed to the dual
>> sticks.
>>
>> I have never flown a 601 before but I noted that the aircraft was quite
>> sensitive in pitch on the elevators but very heavy in roll on the
>> ailerons. Is this normal?
>>
>> I noted on the ground that the aileron movement from the P2 position may
>> have been heavier than from the P1 position.
>>
>> Is it rigged too tightly or is this just how it is?
>>
>> Any advice gratefully received.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> --------
>> Recreational pilot flying out of
>> EGHD Plymouth, UK.
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight |
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 04:30:48PM -0500, LarryMcFarland wrote:
> The aileron movement might be a little stiffer in roll because they depend
> on flexing the .016 aluminum rather than hinges.
Actually, Kevin's note matched the comments I've gotten from other pilots
who've flown with me, and AMD uses piano hinges. I think that's just the way
the aircraft flies.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight |
If there is an autopilot installed, that also makes the ailerons a bit stiffer.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
Sent: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 7:27 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: CH601XL roll sensitivity & aileron control weight
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 04:30:48PM -0500, LarryMcFarland wrote:
> The aileron movement might be a little stiffer in roll because they depend
> on flexing the .016 aluminum rather than hinges.
Actually, Kevin's note matched the comments I've gotten from other pilots
who've flown with me, and AMD uses piano hinges. I think that's just the way
the aircraft flies.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 15
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So following todays little flood of mails about the heavy ailerons , what if any
mods have people done to make this easier?.
I flew a Tecnam JF 2002 at the weekend and the ailerons are the similar but with
balance weight extending forward. I wonder why CH has not put this on and
if it could be done so without great modifications.
Kit gets here 27november ........... :)
--------
Austria ...guess where I work!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9961#209961
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