---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/25/08: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:16 AM - CH601 XL grounded in Holland (David Johnson) 2. 08:31 AM - Re: CH601 XL grounded in Holland (Craig Payne) 3. 09:16 AM - Re: CH601 XL grounded in Holland (Iberplanes IGL) 4. 02:39 PM - XL wing fold in flight (roger cornwell) 5. 04:39 PM - Re: XL wing fold in flight (swater6) 6. 08:32 PM - Re: XL wing fold in flight (Rick Lindstrom) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:41 AM PST US From: "David Johnson" Subject: Zenith601-List: CH601 XL grounded in Holland I've just seen a report on the UK LAA website forum that the Dutch have grounded all CH601XL aircraft, following a crash (2 fatalities) attributed to the wings folding. This is the link to the Dutch report - not much use unless you can read Dutch! http://www.ivw.nl/actueel/nieuws/inspectiehoudttwaalfsportvliegtuigjesaan degrond.aspx Has anyone any further news on this? I understand the crash was in September. Dave Johnson CH601XL - Jab. 3300 - (still) hoping to fly soon. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:39 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: CH601 XL grounded in Holland Here is a translation via Google: http://tinyurl.com/63njec "Inspection takes twelve sport airplanes on the ground Nieuwsbericht | 24-10-2008 News | 24-10-2008 The IVW has Friday, October 24, 2008 decided that in the Netherlands until further notice may no longer be flown with the Zenair Zodiac CH601 XL. This is the result of the preliminary results of the investigation into the accident with a sport plane on Sept. 14 at Marker at Horn, in which two passengers died. In the Netherlands there are twelve XL's registered. >From preliminary examination of the Research Council for Safety and technical experts from the inspection showed that the plane crashed because the right wing folded up. From 2006 until today have at least seven accidents worldwide with the Zenair Zodiac CH601 place where one or both wings collapsed. The investigation of these cases and that in the Netherlands has no single cause, but there are indications that the maximum strength of the aircraft is insufficient for normal expenses during the flight to contribute. It is an American design. In the Czech Republic is this unit for the European market built and tested in Germany. The German and Dutch airworthiness criteria are the same." -- Craig ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:37 AM PST US From: "Iberplanes IGL" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: CH601 XL grounded in Holland Bad news David,. 2008/10/25 David Johnson > I've just seen a report on the UK LAA website forum that the Dutch have > grounded all CH601XL aircraft, following a crash (2 fatalities) attributed > to the wings folding. > > This is the link to the Dutch report - not much use unless you can read > Dutch! > > > http://www.ivw.nl/actueel/nieuws/inspectiehoudttwaalfsportvliegtuigjesaandegrond.aspx > > Has anyone any further news on this? I understand the crash was in > September. > > Dave Johnson > > CH601XL - Jab. 3300 - (still) hoping to fly soon. > > Do not archive > > > * > > * > > -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:11 PM PST US From: roger cornwell Subject: Zenith601-List: XL wing fold in flight Hi XL owners/operators This is my first posting, as iam consideringbuying an XL (already built) =C2- I have heard that 7 Zodiacs have had the wings fold in flight due to struct ual failure, maybe inside or outside the flight envelope. The lastest happe n in Holland in the last week, with unfortunately 2 killed. Zodiacs are gro unded in Holland at the moment =C2- Can anyone shed any light on this issue, and should i be concerned in purch asing an XL? I am an experienced pilot of 20 years, and fly straight and le vel, generally in crusing mode =C2- thanks in advance roger ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: XL wing fold in flight From: "swater6" Roger, You've just opened Pandora's box. Who knows what responses will follow and you'll see many varied opinions. Since the NTSB reports are not final for the two recent LSA accidents, you'll have to guess like the rest of us. Here is some simple advice. Pretend you're about to go on a flight and you're looking at the weather. Take in all of the information you can find and YOU determine if what you see falls within your personal minimums. Your minimums will be different than others. Not wrong, just different. Best of luck. Scott -------- 601 XL kit N596SW reserved Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage www.scottwaters.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210280#210280 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:34 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: XL wing fold in flight Hi, Roger. If you search the archives, I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding all sorts of posts containing everything from informed opinion to wild speculation. As you probably already know, a group recently splintered off to form its own investigative list and solicited funds to perform an independent stress analysis of the wing, spar, and fuselage attach points. Haven't yet heard anything concrete from their findings. If you scratch a bit below the "7 crashed 601s involving wing folding / failure," you'll find that the accidents in question don't (yet) have an obvious failure mode that ties them all together. It's most likely true that wing failure at the rear spar attach point is the ultimate catastrophic failure point after several suspect things happen to the airframe first. So far, the list seems to include accumulated airframe stress from unauthorized aerobatics, exceeding airframe design limits, sudden and excessive down elevator deflection, airframes constructed with lighter or inferior materials to meet non-U.S. standards for the desired category, runaway control surface flutter, and fretting from loose spar attach bolts. Those are just the ones I can recall off of the top of my head. I do know that when I fly my own 601, these crashes lurk in the back of my mind at all times. On the other hand, I know my 601's airframe has made several long cross-country trips, one coast-to-coast, through all sorts of weather and turbulence and it still shows no signs anywhere of any accumulated stress risers or cracks, fretting, part deformation, flutter, or any other airframe anamoly. And I do check it carefully. I also speak with the Heintz's on a semi-regular basis about this topic. They've been working diligently with the NTSB to come up with a common causal factor, so far without finding one. In this case, no news is actually good news. The 601 design has flown many tens of thousands of hours over the years, and so far, no single weak point has been fingered as the instigator in the 7 crashes. And my insurance for my 601 is only about $800 per year, so the underwriters still appear to have confidence in the design. Frankly, there are quite a few people who are really spooked by these crashes, to the point of being afraid to fly in them anymore. There are a ton of 601s for sale, no doubt this fear has something to do with it. But the more I fly my own, the more confidence I have in it. However, I do a very thorough preflight, I don't get horsey on the controls, and I stay alert for anything that might fortell any sort of impending airframe failure. And then I go fly and enjoy the heck out of it. Rick Lindstrom N42KP / ZenVair 601XL -----Original Message----- >From: roger cornwell >Sent: Oct 25, 2008 5:38 PM >To: zenith601-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith601-List: XL wing fold in flight > >Hi XL owners/operators >This is my first posting, as iam consideringbuying an XL (already built) > >I have heard that 7 Zodiacs have had the wings fold in flight due to structual failure, maybe inside or outside the flight envelope. The lastest happen in Holland in the last week, with unfortunately 2 killed. Zodiacs are grounded in Holland at the moment > >Can anyone shed any light on this issue, and should i be concerned in purchasing an XL? I am an experienced pilot of 20 years, and fly straight and level, generally in crusing mode > >thanks in advance >roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.