Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:19 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:41 AM - Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and grounding (Gig Giacona)
2. 06:53 AM - Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and grounding (K Dilks)
3. 06:56 AM - Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain (Gig Giacona)
4. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and grounding (Jay Maynard)
5. 08:19 AM - Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 11/02/08 (Joe Scheibinger)
6. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and grounding (Terry Turnquist)
7. 09:39 AM - Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and groundin (Gig Giacona)
8. 10:35 AM - Re: Strange goop in the overflow bottle (Jimbo)
9. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and groundin (Iberplanes IGL)
10. 12:02 PM - Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and groundin (Gig Giacona)
11. 03:46 PM - Re: Strange goop in the overflow bottle (LarryMcFarland)
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| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
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today to support the continued operation and upgrade of
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Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and |
grounding
When the NTSB investigates an accident they designer/manufacture is virtually always
involved. How else would a bunch of bureaucrats have any idea the calculations
went into a design?
As far as our emotions are involved. I haven't read too many posts lately that
showed overt emotional content. But of course we care. Stuff like this effects
the value of our aircraft even if there isn't an issue and if there is it means
that there is a problem with something many of us have several years and thousands
of dollars on.
If you think there was too much emotion in any of my posts on the European actions
it is because I hate it when governments do stupid things. And since it looks
like Tuesday we are going to become a more European like nation it bothers
more than it might normally.
skyguynca wrote:
> OK, now I really don't see how or why they need to contact the designer.
> When a factory certified line gets grounded they get notified and that is
> all. The investigation needs to remain separate from the designers and
> companys to assure a through investigations is done.
>
> Now after reading all these replies don't you guys see how personally you
> are taking this whole thing? Your planes are not grounded, your not being
> investigated, so why all the commotion and emotions? I could understand if
> the FAA grounded all 601XL's in the US but that is not the case.
>
> Try remaining unemotional, non-speculative and just wait for the findings of
> the CAA.
>
>
> David M.
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212049#212049
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and |
grounding
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
And whats the problem with being European then?
Please consider what you say.
--------
Austria ...guess where I work!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212051#212051
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List: XL grounded in Spain |
bryanmmartin wrote:
>
>
>
>
> 5/2/2007, Canadian, TX. Walker Zenith Zodiac 601 XL, N10028, Fatal(1),
NTSB Identification: DFW07LA102
>
>
And this one departed "...from the airport in deteriorating weather conditions
that consisted of low ceilings, reduced visibility, heavy rain, and lightning."
and the findings were clear.
Occurrence #1: IN FLIGHT ENCOUNTER WITH WEATHER
Phase of Operation: MANEUVERING
Findings
1. (F) WEATHER CONDITION - LOW CEILING
2. (C) PREFLIGHT PLANNING/PREPARATION - POOR - PILOT IN COMMAND
3. (F) WEATHER CONDITION - RAIN
----------
Occurrence #2: AIRFRAME/COMPONENT/SYSTEM FAILURE/MALFUNCTION
Phase of Operation: MANEUVERING
Findings
4. (C) WING - SEPARATION
5. (C) DESIGN STRESS LIMITS OF AIRCRAFT - EXCEEDED - PILOT IN COMMAND
----------
Occurrence #3: LOSS OF CONTROL - IN FLIGHT
Phase of Operation: DESCENT - UNCONTROLLED
----------
Occurrence #4: IN FLIGHT COLLISION WITH TERRAIN/WATER
Phase of Operation: DESCENT - UNCONTROLLED
Findings Legend: (C) = Cause, (F) = Factor
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212053#212053
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident |
and grounding
On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 06:53:27AM -0800, K Dilks wrote:
> And whats the problem with being European then?
I'm not going to try to speak for Gig, but the notion that it's acceptable
for a bureaucrat to ground all aircraft of a given type and then go on
vacation, totally preventing any investigation or work to remedy the
situation, would be unheard of in the US. No government should arbitrarily
and capriciously exert that level of control over anyone's life and then go
on vacation as though nothing had happened. In the US, that would produce
aqn emergency lawsuit designed to get the government back to doing its job.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 11/02/08 |
Brian,
Thanks for listing the accidents. It seems from your list that the large
majority of the accidents had 2 souls aboard. Could this be a gross weight
problem? It's pretty easy to overload a 601 with full fuel and two people.
Joe in Oshkosh
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident |
and grounding
Gentleman, I know emotions get ramped up on this subject, but frankly I'm glad
some kind of action is being forced on Zenith. It's easy for them to make a few
cosmetic changes to a design and change names, but we 601 XL builders are the
ones taking it up the butt financially on this deal and possibly risking said butt
when flying this airplane. Bring on the flames!
Terry Turnquist
601XL Plans
St. Peters, MO
On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 06:53:27AM -0800, K Dilks wrote:
> And whats the problem with being European then?
I'm not going to try to speak for Gig, but the notion that it's acceptable
for a bureaucrat to ground all aircraft of a given type and then go on
vacation, totally preventing any investigation or work to remedy the
situation, would be unheard of in the US. No government should arbitrarily
and capriciously exert that level of control over anyone's life and then go
on vacation as though nothing had happened. In the US, that would produce
aqn emergency lawsuit designed to get the government back to doing its job.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and |
groundin
And what action is Zenith being forced to take that they weren't already taking?
The Dutch bureaucrat that grounded the plane in Holland (and because of EU regulations
other countries) is off on vacation.
The directive from Zenith Europe was to fly in the envelope and check tension on
the cables. I knew I needed to do that before I bought the plans.
ter_turn(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Gentleman, I know emotions get ramped up on this subject, but frankly I'm glad
> some kind of action is being forced on Zenith. It's easy for them to make a few
cosmetic changes to a design and change names, but we 601 XL builders are the
> ones taking it up the butt financially on this deal and possibly risking said
butt when flying this airplane. Bring on the flames!
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212098#212098
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Strange goop in the overflow bottle |
You didnt say, but can we assume it is a Rotax 912 of some sort?
If so, did you use Evans waterless coolant or an automotive coolant and wat
er mixture?
--- On Sun, 11/2/08, LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Strange goop in the overflow bottle
m>
<larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi Guys,
This week begins the Annual Inspection of my 601HDS and one of the first
things was a coolant leak that dripped ever so slightly from the coolant
overflow bottle. Large filler hoses were moved out of the way. I tried
to siphon the last half-inch of coolant, but goop on the bottom
prevented it. The coolant bottle was removed and the last half-pint of
coolant was poured into another bottle. The bottom goop was very
different from the clean and transparent coolant. It was gray-black and
didn=A2t act or feel like oil. After flushing the goop out of the bottle
in two level chunks, I put the goop on paper and it dried to a
gray-black cake. Rubbed between the fingers, it felt like an extremely
fine compound. The bottle was refilled and set on a shelf to check it
again for leakage. There was a leak spot on the back firewall side where
the bottle contacts a rivet head. I've another bottle to install but was
very curious about the accumulated 1/8-inch of goop on the bottom of the
coolant bottle. Any ideas of what it might be? I've never encountered
this before. It's not oil, nor does it leave a carbon trace on the
fingers. It washes off like regular soil. Volume was 1/8 x 2 x 3 lg. The
coolant bottle has never been changed or cleaned, but my coolant has
been changed twice at 60 hours. Any ideas?
Thank you for your response,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident |
and groundin
guys,
how do you know that the Dutch is on vacation? Quite extrange because the
season is over and I=B4m affected by this "bureacrat"
THX
2008/11/3 Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>
> And what action is Zenith being forced to take that they weren't already
> taking? The Dutch bureaucrat that grounded the plane in Holland (and beca
use
> of EU regulations other countries) is off on vacation.
>
> The directive from Zenith Europe was to fly in the envelope and check
> tension on the cables. I knew I needed to do that before I bought the pla
ns.
>
>
> ter_turn(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> > Gentleman, I know emotions get ramped up on this subject, but frankly I
'm
> glad
> > some kind of action is being forced on Zenith. It's easy for them to ma
ke
> a few cosmetic changes to a design and change names, but we 601 XL builde
rs
> are the
> > ones taking it up the butt financially on this deal and possibly riskin
g
> said butt when flying this airplane. Bring on the flames!
> >
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212098#212098
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and |
groundin
>From here http://www.zenairulm.com/News/index_files/Page349.htm
"On Saturday October 25, Zenair Sarl was informed by a Dutch Zodiac XL owner that
the Dutch CAA had issued an emergency Airworthiness Directive the previous
day, calling for the immediate grounding of all Zodiac XL in the Netherlands,
effective immediately.
This came as a complete surprise to Zenair Europe, Zenair Ltd and Zenith Aircraft
Co. as none of us had been previously contacted by the Dutch authorities. We
were further surprised that the basis for the NL-CAA action was a preliminary
accident report that offers no new findings regarding the Zodiac XL design.
Rather it makes allusion to various other accidents and suggests that the calculated
strength of the design is probably too optimistic.
Zenair is eager to discuss the basis for these statements with the Dutch CAA and
is keenly awaiting the return of CAA staff from their seasonal holiday...."
Iberplanes wrote:
> guys,
>
> how do you know that the Dutch is on vacation? Quite extrange because the season
is over and Im affected by this "bureacrat"
>
> THX
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212132#212132
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Strange goop in the overflow bottle |
Hi Jimbo,
I fly a Stratus Subaru and use 50/50 de-ionized water and anti-freeze.
I've never tried the waterless stuff.
The goop when burned, smelled like rubber, so I must presume the residue
is hose material that gets worn
off the inside diameter by the fast moving coolant. Then it gathers up
at my overflow when the engine is
shut down and collects in the bottom of my coolant bottle.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jimbo wrote:
> You didnt say, but can we assume it is a Rotax 912 of some sort?
> If so, did you use Evans waterless coolant or an automotive coolant
> and water mixture?
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 11/2/08, LarryMcFarland /<larry@macsmachine.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
> Subject: Zenith601-List: Strange goop in the overflow bottle
> To: zenith601-list@matronics.com, "stratus-list"
> <stratus-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 4:14 PM
>
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> This week begins the Annual Inspection of my 601HDS and one of the first
> things was a coolant leak that dripped ever so slightly from the
> coolant
> overflow bottle. Large filler hoses were moved out of the way. I tried
> to siphon the last half-inch of coolant, but goop on the bottom
> prevented it. The coolant bottle was removed and the last half-pint of
> coolant was poured into another bottle. The bottom goop was very
> different from the clean and transparent coolant. It was gray-black and
> didnt act or feel like oil. After flushing the goop out of the bottle
> in two level chunks, I put the goop on paper and it dried to a
> gray-black cake. Rubbed between the fingers, it felt like an extremely
> fine compound. The bottle was refilled and set on a shelf to check it
> again for leakage. There was a leak spot on the back firewall side where
> the bottle contacts a rivet head. I've another bottle to install but was
> very curious about the accumulated 1/8-inch of goop on the bottom of the
> coolant bottle. Any ideas of what it might be? I've never
> encountered
> this before. It's not oil, nor does it leave a carbon trace on the
> fingers. It washes off like regular soil. Volume was 1/8 x 2 x 3 lg. The
> coolant bottle has never been changed or cleaned, but my coolant has
> been changed twice at 60 hours. Any ideas?
>
> Thank you for your response,
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
> *
>
> *
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