---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/14/08: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:17 AM - Fund Raiser Lagging Last Year By Over 30%... (Matt Dralle) 1. 04:26 PM - All 601XL grounded in Belgium (David X) 2. 05:11 PM - Re: All 601XL grounded in Belgium (Craig Payne) 3. 06:32 PM - Re: All 601XL grounded in Belgium (David X) 4. 08:30 PM - 601XL - Aileron Trim Tab Deflection (Dave VanLanen) 5. 08:37 PM - Re: 601XL - Aileron Trim Tab Deflection (Paul Mulwitz) 6. 09:09 PM - Re: 601XL - Aileron Trim Tab Deflection (Terry Phillips) 7. 10:33 PM - Re: All 601XL grounded in Netherlands (David X) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:12 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith601-List: Fund Raiser Lagging Last Year By Over 30%... As of the 13th, the Fund Raiser is currently about 30% behind last year in terms of the number of Contributions. Yet, oddly the number of messages posted per day is up by 10 to 20% on the average. It costs real money to run these Lists and they are supported 100% though your Contributions during the Fund Raiser. Won't you please take a minute right now to make your Contribution to keep these Lists up and running? Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:45 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: All 601XL grounded in Belgium From: "David X" My purpose in posting this is to make information available to builders and owners. This may affect your periodic or annual inspection. Attention should be given to the rear attach points at the wing root and the cable tensions, particularly the ailerons. I received a call from the FAA today. They wanted me to be aware of the grounding of all 601XL in Belgium, which was built by Czech Aircraft Works. There are perhaps 2 in the US that were build by CZAW. One was crashed by my friend in Virginia (the NTSB preliminary report indicated that there was no fuel in the wing tanks, fuel lines or carburetor bowls). I own the only remaining 601XL in the US built by CZAW. The issues of concern that were conveyed to me by the FAA were aileron flutter and wing folding. There has not been a conclusion by the NTSB regarding the wing folding incidents. The aileron flutter is a point of interest but it is not known whether it is a factor in the Belgium crash. The thought is that a flutter condition could cause a wing failure if torsional (twisting) forces were high enough. This is not something unique to the 601XL but a possible condition in any aircraft with unbalanced control surfaces. By unbalanced, I mean that there is no counter-weight in aileron, elevator or rudder to keep them in a neutral position absent any outside force (such as air flow or control inputs). I was told that the engineers at the NTSB have reviewed the 601XL design and by all indications it is a 6G aircraft (theoretical) and is as advertised by the designer. Of course, it is rated much lower for margin of safety. The only other information I was given was to make sure that the POH has the correct calibrated air speeds. Calibrated speeds are preferred over indicated (the latter varying depending on density altitude, temperature and altitude). I am not speculating, but simply conveying what I was told over the phone by the FAA. I'm conveying this in my own words. Nothing in this post are official NTSB findings. I have flown my 601XL for 300+ hours. I also flew it coast to coast over the Rockies twice and I have had zero issues whatsoever with aileron flutter. Years ago, after hearing about the wing folding incidents, I spot painted the the rear spar connection points and the main spar attach points as a way to detect any shift. I have seen zero shift in 3 years of flying. Linked below are service bulletins issued by something and AMD that apply to this particular situation. I've included a few links that speak to this situation. http://www.zenairulm.com/News/pdfdocs/ZE-2008-01.pdf http://www.newplane.com/Service_Letters_Bulletines/SAFETY_ALERT_october_29_2008.pdf http://www.zenairulm.com/News/index_files/Page349.htm http://www.zenairulm.com/News/index_files/Page350.htm -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214284#214284 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:59 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: All 601XL grounded in Belgium "There are perhaps 2 in the US that were build by CZAW." I thought that the Xl that went down in Florida near Sun-n-fun was also a CZAW plane? NTSB: NTSB Identification: NYC08FA158 Accident occurred Monday, April 07, 2008 in Polk City, FL Aircraft: Chech Aircraft Works SPOL SRO CH 601 XL RTF, registration: N357DT Injuries: 1 Fatal. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On April 7, 2008 about 1700 eastern daylight time, a Czech Aircraft Works SPOL SRO CH 601 XL RTF, N357DT, was substantially damaged when it impacted trees and terrain following an uncontrolled descent near Polk City, Florida. FAA database: N357DT is Assigned Aircraft Description Serial Number 6-9733 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS SPOL SRO Certificate Issue Date 11/28/2007 Model CH 601 XL RTF Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50777453 MFR Year 2005 Fractional Owner NO -- Craig ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:46 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: All 601XL grounded in Belgium From: "David X" I recall that there was a 3rd, but the NTSB seems to be under the impression that there were only two. Thank you for the info. I'll pass it along. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214299#214299 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:08 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL - Aileron Trim Tab Deflection I just finished installing my aileron trim, and when I tested it, I can only get a total of 40 degrees of deflection. According to the plans, I should be able to get 50 degrees of deflection (25 up and 25 down). Adjusting the length of the control rod only changes the distribution of the 40 degrees between up and down - it does not increase the total deflection. I checked that the servo was working correctly, which it was (.7" travel per specs). I also checked that there was no binding of the control rod clevis with the trim tab horn angle. The only thing I could find was that the center of the control rod mounting hole in the horn angle was 13 mm up from the flange instead of the 12 mm specified in the plans. I find it hard to believe that 1 mm would cause a 10 degree loss in deflection. Has anyone else experienced this problem, and if so, what did you do to resolve? Thanks, Dave Van Lanen 601XL - tail done, flaps done, working on ailerons ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:54 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL - Aileron Trim Tab Deflection Hi Dave, One thought is the servo you have is not the correct one. There is a 1.2 inch servo from the same folks as the .7 inch one. I'm not sure which one I have or what displacement I get. One other thought is the prints are sometimes a bit optimistic on things like this. The flaps are notorious for this issue since ZAC decided to change the entire flap motor mechanism to achieve only 20 degrees instead of the 30 provided by the older motor. Since there is no version control on the drawings, the details on your drawings depend on the exact date they were printed but the parts depend on the exact date they were shipped. I guess a call to ZAC is the only way to answer either of the questions I raised. (Don't you just hate people who answer questions with further questions?) Paul XL getting close At 08:28 PM 11/14/2008, you wrote: >I just finished installing my aileron trim, and >when I tested it, I can only get a total of 40 >degrees of deflection. According to the plans, >I should be able to get 50 degrees of deflection >(25 up and 25 down). Adjusting the length of >the control rod only changes the distribution of >the 40 degrees between up and down ' it does not >increase the total deflection. I checked that >the servo was working correctly, which it was >(.7=94 travel per specs). I also checked that >there was no binding of the control rod clevis >with the trim tab horn angle. The only thing I >could find was that the center of the control >rod mounting hole in the horn angle was 13 mm up >from the flange instead of the 12 mm specified >in the plans. I find it hard to believe that 1 >mm would cause a 10 degree loss in deflection. > >Has anyone else experienced this problem, and if >so, what did you do to resolve? > >Thanks, > >Dave Van Lanen > >601XL ' tail done, flaps ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:10 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL - Aileron Trim Tab Deflection Dave I was only able to get +20 -19=B0 in mine. See my Kitlog Pro entry for 1/23/08 (link below). I called ZAC and Caleb told me that would probably be more than enough. I decided to just live it. I thought the difference might have been that ZAC has started issuing an aileron trim tab control horn, 6-ATO-1-6 that is identical to the elevator trim control horn. When I noticed that the part in my kit differed from the drawing, they sent me a new one. But the new one was identical to the 1st one. If I were doing the ailerons again (and I just might), I would do what Mirko reported doing. I.e., I'd rivet a length of L-angle on the inside of the aileron top skin under the servo attachment holes to reduce flexing of the skin when the trim tab is actuated. Or else, I might just use a spring loaded internal trim like Klaus Truemper did on his HDS. Terry At 10:28 PM 11/14/2008 -0600, you wrote: >I just finished installing my aileron trim, and when I tested it, I can >only get a total of 40 degrees of deflection. According to the plans, I >should be able to get 50 degrees of deflection (25 up and 25 >down). Adjusting the length of the control rod only changes the >distribution of the 40 degrees between up and down ' it does not increase >the total deflection. I checked that the servo was working correctly, >which it was (.7=94 travel per specs). I also checked that there was no >binding of the control rod clevis with the trim tab horn angle. The only >thing I could find was that the center of the control rod mounting hole in >the horn angle was 13 mm up from the flange instead of the 12 mm specified >in the plans. I find it hard to believe that 1 mm would cause a 10 degree >loss in deflection. > >Has anyone else experienced this problem, and if so, what did you do to >resolve? > >Thanks, > >Dave Van Lanen > >601XL ' tail done, flaps done, working on ailerons Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: All 601XL grounded in Netherlands From: "David X" To anyone who read this post before I edited it ... the country in question is the Netherlands, not Belgium. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214327#214327 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.