Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:06 AM - Re: Aileron flutter (ashontz)
2. 05:31 AM - Priming the rivets and the outside skin. (K Dilks)
3. 07:11 AM - Re: Priming the rivets and the outside skin. (LarryMcFarland)
4. 08:13 AM - Re: Aileron flutter (Rexwinkle)
5. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: Aileron flutter (Jim Belcher)
6. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Aileron flutter (David Downey)
7. 08:28 AM - Re: Aileron flutter (ashontz)
8. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Aileron flutter (Jay Maynard)
9. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Aileron flutter (Jay Maynard)
10. 08:45 AM - Re: Aileron flutter (Gig Giacona)
11. 10:32 AM - Re: Angle Drill Attachments (Brian R. Wood)
12. 01:24 PM - Re: Priming the rivets and the outside skin. (countzero)
13. 02:10 PM - Re: Priming the rivets and the outside skin. (Gig Giacona)
14. 02:12 PM - Re: Angle Drill Attachments (Gig Giacona)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter |
The fact that the factory plane is flying with no problems (as well as many other
XLs) points to sloppy building/maintenance/piloting in incident airplanes.
The XL is basically high performance plane which when poor piloting and sloppy
building are combined could lead to a problem. Again, not the plane, but poor
building, maintenance, and piloting are what I believe to be the suspicious
factors in the accidents that did occur.
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217588#217588
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| Subject: | Priming the rivets and the outside skin. |
Does any one here etch prime the rivets before fitting? and does any one put the
etch prime on the outside of the skins, especially along the rivet lines?
These seem silly questions but as you can guess what I'm doing at the moment
and want to start off well. Not sure where it will be parked so taking the worst
case etc etc
Thanks Kev
Rudder and stab frame ready to paint.....
--------
Austria .............
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217590#217590
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| Subject: | Re: Priming the rivets and the outside skin. |
It's probably a waste of time to prime rivets before use. On priming the
outside, just be sure to get a primer that is cooperative with your
final paint type.
Some primers don't work well with the final paint.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
K Dilks wrote:
>
> Does any one here etch prime the rivets before fitting? and does any one put
the etch prime on the outside of the skins, especially along the rivet lines?
> These seem silly questions but as you can guess what I'm doing at the moment
and want to start off well. Not sure where it will be parked so taking the worst
case etc etc
> Thanks Kev
>
> Rudder and stab frame ready to paint.....
>
> --------
> Austria .............
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217590#217590
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter |
Actually in the US two of the crashes were factory built and two were home built.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217619#217619
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter |
On Thursday 04 December 2008 10:13, Rexwinkle wrote:
> <scottrexwinkle@yahoo.com>
>
> Actually in the US two of the crashes were factory built and two were home
> built.
Which might, repeat, might, suggest the problem is one of maintenance rather
than construction.
=============================================
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
================================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter |
Hi Andy;
Completely agreed, but I think the sentence should have said something like
: "The XL is basically a high performance plane being sold in a low perfor
mance arena (LSA) which when poor pilot judgement/skill and less than optim
al building techniques are combined could lead to a problem.
The very slippery design can easily exceed all of the LSA limits imposed on
it - and under those conditions all bets are off.
David L. Downey Harleysville-(SE) PA, USA
--- On Thu, 12/4/08, ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
From: ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Aileron flutter
<ashontz@nbme.org>
The fact that the factory plane is flying with no problems (as well as many
other XLs) points to sloppy building/maintenance/piloting in incident airpl
anes.
The XL is basically high performance plane which when poor piloting and sl
oppy
building are combined could lead to a problem. Again, not the plane, but po
or
building, maintenance, and piloting are what I believe to be the suspicious
factors in the accidents that did occur.
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217588#217588
=0A=0A=0A
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter |
Exactly. I suggested 3 possible areas (a 4th could be the plane itself, but I didn't
list that because that's most likely NOT the problem as evidenced by the
fact that the factory demonstrator as well as many other XLs have experienced
NO problems). So the 3 possible areas are, builder error, maintenance error,
pilot error.
z601(at)anemicaardvark.co wrote:
> On Thursday 04 December 2008 10:13, Rexwinkle wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Actually in the US two of the crashes were factory built and two were home
> > built.
> >
> >
>
> Which might, repeat, might, suggest the problem is one of maintenance rather
> than construction.
> =============================================
> Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
> ================================================
> Jim B. Belcher
> BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
> A&P/IA
> Instrument Rated Pilot
> General Radio Telephone Certificate
> ================================================
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217625#217625
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter |
On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 10:20:09AM -0600, Jim Belcher wrote:
> On Thursday 04 December 2008 10:13, Rexwinkle wrote:
> > Actually in the US two of the crashes were factory built and two were home
> > built.
> Which might, repeat, might, suggest the problem is one of maintenance rather
> than construction.
Might. Note also that the two factory aircraft were built by two different
factories: one by AMD, one by CZAW.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter |
On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 08:24:03AM -0800, David Downey wrote:
> The very slippery design can easily exceed all of the LSA limits imposed
> on it - and under those conditions all bets are off.
What LSA limits can it exceed? The only one that matters in this discussion
is a Vh of 120 knots, and that's not a speed of anything other than
regulatory interest. *ANY* airplane can exceed Vno easily; this is hardly
limited to the Zodiac. I've never gotten close to Vne, even in a power-on
descent in still air.
The LSA limits aren't ones relating to structural strength; they're there to
make sure the aircraft can be safely flown by pilots with limited
experience.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter |
jmaynard wrote:
>
> Might. Note also that the two factory aircraft were built by two different
> factories: one by AMD, one by CZAW.
And only God knows what how CZAW built them considering the financial issues that
have come out about them.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217631#217631
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Angle Drill Attachments |
Personally I prefer 100 to 1 a purpose built air angle drill. I bought one
used many years ago, and every time I use it I am reminded of how smart I
was to have bought it (big grin). But they are expensive new, and not
everyone has access to used ones at a good price. A snake drill gets in
some tight places but it is very difficult to control because you have to
use it one handed (because your other hand is holding the "mother-ship
drill"). With a good helper it can be a good solution. The angle
attachments I don't know about, I have never used one, but they look
clumsy to me, and I am clumsy enough without help!
Brian
Em Wed, 03 Dec 2008 00:08:52 -0200, Dave VanLanen
<davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net> escreveu:
> I'm planning to purchase an angle drill attachment for getting into tight
> spaces. I noticed that there are the "regular" right-angle drill
> attachments, and then there are snake right-angle drill attachments
> available as well. Has anyone used both a "regular" right-angle drill
> attachment and a snake right-angle drill attachment, and if so, which do
> you
> prefer?
--
Brian R. Wood
JH Manutencao
Anapolis. Goias, Brazil
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Priming the rivets and the outside skin. |
Hello KD, I'm almost ready to prime and asking similar questions, I have the tail
and wings at that stage now.
The primer has a two month life once opened so I decided to shoot the rudder, stab
and wings in one batch. When the parts are all fully primed, inside and out,
I will coat all the mating surfaces with jointing compound before riveting.
I've never heard of priming the rivets before, are you using wet primer for the
rivets or letting it dry?
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217654#217654
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| Subject: | Re: Priming the rivets and the outside skin. |
Just a data point. When I started the build process oh so many years ago I called
one of the top aviation paint places over in Mena Arkansas to get a quote on
paint and ask them what I should do during the build process to make the painting
process cheaper/easier for them.
After asking what kind of AL I was building with and me explaining the types of
rivets that were being used they said don't do a thing to anyplace I wanted them
to shoot paint and to clean up the Zinc Chromate as best I can before I bring
them the plane.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217664#217664
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Angle Drill Attachments |
I bought a not to expensive air angle drill and use it often but there are still
some places that the angle attachment really comes in handy. My only gripe about
the angle attachment is there isn't any local source for the bits.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217665#217665
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