---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/11/08: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:36 AM - Thrust line? (heisan) 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Thrust line? (LarryMcFarland) 3. 08:05 AM - Re: Thrust line? (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 4. 08:07 AM - Re: Thrust line? (heisan) 5. 08:23 AM - Re: Thrust line? (Gig Giacona) 6. 08:32 AM - Re: Thrust line? (heisan) 7. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Thrust line? (Bryan Martin) 8. 04:08 PM - Grounding Of Fuel Senders (Dave VanLanen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Thrust line? From: "heisan" Hi all, I will soon be the owner of a partially complete HDS kit, and am busy engine shopping. I have found an 80hp AeroVee engine that was removed from a HD. It flew the aircraft reasonably well, but take-off performance was really bad. I was considering buying the engine and fitting a reduction drive and in flight adjustable Ivo Prop to make the most out of the engine. Now the question is, how sensitive is the HDS to thrust line? I can keep the existing engine mount, which will move the thrust line up 130mm (5") from the standard position, or I can invest a bit more in a new engine mount. I see from the photo's on Zeniths website that there is at least one HD out there with a redrive and a high thrust line, so it can't be all bad? If anybody knows how good/bad a 130mm higher thrust line will be, I would appreciate any feedback! Thanks, Justin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218844#218844 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:55 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Thrust line? Hi Heisan, I'd reconsider the 80-hp AeroVee on the HDS. 80-hp is marginal on the wing area of the HDS where the HD would only be adequate. I've a Subaru which delivers 100 hp and an a friends HD with the same engine setup could out climb the HDS making my aircraft feel completely anemic. I could go faster, but climb with 80-hp in an HDS isn't a good thing unless you intend to keep it under 650 lbs empty. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com heisan wrote: > > Hi all, > > I will soon be the owner of a partially complete HDS kit, and am busy engine shopping. > > I have found an 80hp AeroVee engine that was removed from a HD. It flew the aircraft reasonably well, but take-off performance was really bad. > > I was considering buying the engine and fitting a reduction drive and in flight adjustable Ivo Prop to make the most out of the engine. > > Now the question is, how sensitive is the HDS to thrust line? I can keep the existing engine mount, which will move the thrust line up 130mm (5") from the standard position, or I can invest a bit more in a new engine mount. > > I see from the photo's on Zeniths website that there is at least one HD out there with a redrive and a high thrust line, so it can't be all bad? > > If anybody knows how good/bad a 130mm higher thrust line will be, I would appreciate any feedback! > > Thanks, > Justin > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218844#218844 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:53 AM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Thrust line? Justin, I would not move the thrust line up 5" without changing engine mount. It will change you aircraft stability. I do not know where the CG (that POINT were the aircarft will hang level on a string) is on a HDS. I think it is just below the thrust line so you would be moving it above the CG. Jerry of GA In a message dated 12/11/2008 3:36:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, justin@expertron.co.za writes: --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "heisan" Hi all, I will soon be the owner of a partially complete HDS kit, and am busy engine shopping. I have found an 80hp AeroVee engine that was removed from a HD. It flew the aircraft reasonably well, but take-off performance was really bad. I was considering buying the engine and fitting a reduction drive and in flight adjustable Ivo Prop to make the most out of the engine. Now the question is, how sensitive is the HDS to thrust line? I can keep the existing engine mount, which will move the thrust line up 130mm (5") from the standard position, or I can invest a bit more in a new engine mount. I see from the photo's on Zeniths website that there is at least one HD out there with a redrive and a high thrust line, so it can't be all bad? If anybody knows how good/bad a 130mm higher thrust line will be, I would appreciate any feedback! Thanks, Justin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218844#218844 **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. The NEW ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:37 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Thrust line? From: "heisan" I am a bit worried about that. My empty weight should be well under 300lbs though. Also, the VP prop will allow me to climb at max continuous RPM (3400), so it will climb a lot better than a stock 80hp setup. The problem with the subies is the price. I have gotten quotes from RAM and Stratus, and both were ridiculous - once shipping and duties are added, they cost substantially more than a brand new 120hp Jab! The only cost effective engine I can lay my hands on is the VW. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218904#218904 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Thrust line? From: "Gig Giacona" heisan wrote: > > > The only cost effective engine I can lay my hands on is the VW. Check out a corvair. www.flycorvair.com -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218914#218914 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:15 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Thrust line? From: "heisan" Gig Giacona wrote: > > heisan wrote: > > > > > > The only cost effective engine I can lay my hands on is the VW. > > > Check out a corvair. www.flycorvair.com WW hasn't responded to any of my emails, but I am chatting to the guys at Aeromax now. Spares are a problem though, as no corvair cars were ever sold in South Africa, so all spares need to be imported. Cost is also very high for what you get (only 20% cheaper than a Jab 3300). I really want to pust that 120hp Jabiru in, but just can't afford it... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218917#218917 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:42 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Thrust line? You might want to consider obtaining or building a set of HD wings for your airplane, that will significantly improve climb rate with whatever engine you put in it. You will lose some speed but that will just give you more time to enjoy the flight. :) As I recall, the 601HD was originally designed around a 65 HP engine, so if you can actually get 80 HP out of a VW conversion and your density altitude isn't too bad, you should do OK. Fight the urge to add any unnecessary accessories, keep that empty weight down. > > > I am a bit worried about that. My empty weight should be well under > 300lbs though. Also, the VP prop will allow me to climb at max > continuous RPM (3400), so it will climb a lot better than a stock > 80hp setup. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:32 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith601-List: Grounding Of Fuel Senders I have attended a couple of forums at AirVenture on the subject of aircraft electrical systems, and the presenters have been consistent in recommending the routing of a return wire from every component to the universal ground bus, to help insure that there are no "ground loops" introduced into the system that can cause electrical problems. I personally think this is relatively cheap insurance against grounding issues, and I plan to follow this advice. However, with the VDO fuel senders, the sender is not designed to be isolated from the fuel tank / airframe because the inner mounting ring and mounting screws are in metal-to-metal contact with the fuel tank and sender case, and thus are also connected to the airframe by virture of the grounding strap installed from the fuel tank to the airframe. And even if the sender were to be isolated from the tank and airframe via use of shoulder washers under the mounting screws, there is no grounding lug on the case of the sending unit itself to attach a return wire to. Has anyone experienced any "ground loop" or other electrical issues with the senders when grounding via a mounting screw as instructed by ZAC? Has anyone figured out a simple way to isolate the sender from the airframe and install an attachment to the sender case for a return wire to the ground buss? Thanks, Dave Van Lanen 601XL - working on wings ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.