Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:16 AM - 601 problems (Russell Bell)
2. 05:43 AM - Re: ANGRY IN ENGLAND (Tim Juhl)
3. 11:31 AM - Re: 601 problems (Bryan Martin)
4. 11:34 AM - Re: 601 problems (aerobat)
5. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: 601 problems (jaybannist@cs.com)
6. 01:01 PM - Re: 601 problems (aerobat)
7. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: 601 problems (Herb Heaton)
8. 02:13 PM - Re: 601 problems (aerobat)
Message 1
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Well Hi all I wish every one a merry Christmas
I would like to make a few observations
1/
OK lack of communication that's a problem ???
Chris and the boys need to let us know more
2/
if there isn't any problems come out and tell the customers that have
spent there savings on there kits and that would be the end of the story
for me
3/
if there is a problem tell us so we can fix it
when its all said and done I want is to be able to put one of my
children in the seat next to me and feel safe doing so
4/
so at the end of the day all I want is a yes or no either way I will
be able to fix the problems and be happy doing so
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: ANGRY IN ENGLAND |
Sabrina, you never cease to amaze me with your insights. I never thought of steps
as bracing the fuselage, but how can they not? I believe that several builders
have opted not to install the steps for one reason or another.
To our friend Gary in England, if you read the archives on this and the Zenith
site you will see that the subject has been covered again and again and indeed
sometimes emotions have gotten a bit out of hand. While XL's are not grounded
in the US, there is still concern and everyone involved with the design is anxiously
awaiting final word on what more, if anything, needs to be done. For
all our sakes I hope things are resolved soon. In the meantime have a happy
xmas and a great new year!
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220271#220271
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601 problems |
First of all, this list is not an official outlet for news and
information from Zenith Aircraft, so any information you get from
Zenith on this list will probably be second hand. The official outlets
for information from Zenith are the newsletter and the Zenith website.
Through these official channels, some information has been reported
about these accidents. Zenith is actively participating with the NTSB
and FAA in the investigation of these accidents. Unfortunately, since
two of these accidents are still under investigation here in the U.
S., the information that can be released is limited.
One thing that has been stated is that no common link has been found
in these accidents that would point to a design flaw. They have also
stated that flutter is suspected in some of the accidents. A big
problem with determining the cause of these accidents is that there
are many different ways an airplane structure can be made to fail and
it's not easy to figure out what exactly happened when all you have to
go on is a pile of wreckage. You have to sort out the damage that
happened on impact from the damage that happened before impact.
Most of the accidents occurred with the airplane loaded near or above
gross weight with two people aboard, two accidents occurred with one
person aboard.
As I recall, two of the accidents that happened in Europe (Spain and
France) were linked to structural overload due to pilot error in the
official accident investigations. The pilots apparently pulled up hard
from shallow dives. This is not from first hand knowledge on my part
so it could be in error.
The accident in England that was apparently cited in the Dutch
grounding was not a 601XL, it was a 601UL. It was also reported as
structural overload due to pilot error. The pilot reportedly made a
hard pull up to avoid power lines after making a high speed pass.
The Canadian, Texas accident occurred after a sport pilot took off
into a low ceiling with heavy rain and lightning in the vicinity. It
was also linked to pilot error in the NTSB report. The National
Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this
accident as follows: "The pilot's improper pre-flight planning and
decision to depart into deteriorating weather conditions, which
resulted in a loss of control and subsequent in-flight break up." NTSB
Identification: DFW07LA102, Aircraft: Walker Zenith Zodiac 601 XL,
registration: N10028
So about half of the reported accidents have been somehow linked to
pilot error.
The Oakdale, California accident occurred on the first flight by the
new owner after buying the airplane from the original builder. It was
also the first flight after a major modification was made to the
airplane. A co-pilot brake system was installed requiring removal and
reinstallation of the control sticks and rudder bars. A post crash
fire destroyed much of the wreckage and no definite cause was found
for the crash. If you can believe the eye witness reports though,
flutter is a good possibility here. NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026,
Aircraft: Hooker Zodiac 601XL, registration: N105RH
The NTSB report of the Yuba City accident contains a great deal of
information. This accident appears to be very different from most of
the others in that the airplane broke up into several major pieces in
the air which then impacted separately over a large area on the
ground. Based on the description of the wreckage, it appears that the
airplane failed from a negative G overload. The reported radar
tracking seems to confirm this. Within a half minute or so the plane
went from level flight to a 700 ft/min climb to 2000 ft/min descent.
This accident is still under investigation. NTSB Identification:
LAX07FA026, Aircraft: Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA,
registration: N158MD.
The Polk City accident aircraft had one person aboard but may have
been heavily loaded because he was on a long cross country trip to the
Sun'N'Fun air show, the report doesn't mention weight and balance
data. It's still under investigation. NTSB Identification: NYC08FA158,
Aircraft: Chech Aircraft Works SPOL SRO CH 601 XL RTF, registration:
N357DT.
In my opinion, most of the accidents have been strongly linked to
abrupt maneuvers or loss of control. As far as I can tell, only the
Polk City, Oakdale and Netherlands accidents haven't yet been strongly
linked to a possible reason for failure.
On Dec 20, 2008, at 8:15 AM, Russell Bell wrote:
> Well Hi all I wish every one a merry Christmas
>
> I would like to make a few observations
>
> 1/
> OK lack of communication that's a problem ???
> Chris and the boys need to let us know more
>
> 2/
> if there isn't any problems come out and tell the customers that
> have spent there savings on there kits and that would be the end of
> the story for me
>
> 3/
> if there is a problem tell us so we can fix it
> when its all said and done I want is to be able to put one of my
> children in the seat next to me and feel safe doing so
>
> 4/
> so at the end of the day all I want is a yes or no either way I
> will be able to fix the problems and be happy doing so
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601 problems |
I think that deep down, as much as we love our XLs we all know there is a problem.
Wings should not fall off aeroplanes, there must be many other types out there
with incorrect cable tensions flying without dropping out of the sky.
Rumour has it that the UK LAA have voiced their concern to the designer who appears
to deny any problem.
Unfortunately if something is not done history points to another XL wing failing
in flight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220324#220324
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601 problems |
aerobat (whoever you are),
Where do you get this "we" stuff?? "We" don't all know there is a problem with
the XL.? Maybe there is a problem with some of the XL pilots, but "we" are not
all in agreement with you.
And please rumor out of any serious discussion of the XL.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: aerobat <rhood2000@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 1:34 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601 problems
I think that deep down, as much as we love our XLs we all know there is a
problem.
Wings should not fall off aeroplanes, there must be many other types out there
with incorrect cable tensions flying without dropping out of the sky.
Rumour has it that the UK LAA have voiced their concern to the designer who
appears to deny any problem.
Unfortunately if something is not done history points to another XL wing failing
in flight.
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 601 problems |
Apologies if I've touched a raw nerve, you may have 100 percent confidence in your
XL but a lot of owners that I've talked to do not.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220331#220331
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601 problems |
Mr. Aerobat,
Are you, by any chance, familiar with the Bradley Aerobat? No
insinuations...Just curious.
Regards,
Herb
601XL from plans
----- Original Message -----
From: aerobat<mailto:rhood2000@hotmail.com>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 2:00 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601 problems
<rhood2000@hotmail.com<mailto:rhood2000@hotmail.com>>
Apologies if I've touched a raw nerve, you may have 100 percent
confidence in your XL but a lot of owners that I've talked to do not.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220331#220331<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220331#220331>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601 problems |
Sorry, no connection whatsoever.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220338#220338
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